Theory: SSJ3 is a x80 multiplier, not x400

[Dayspring]

There's an interview somewhere that says Toriyama never imagined SSJ being a x50 multiplier, despite what everyone (logically) assumed it was. Instead, he envisioned it more as a x10 multiplier of Goku's strength. It's worth noting that SSJ2 is the same as "SSJ Strength x2" and that SSJ3 is the same as "SSJ2 Strength x4." What makes these different from SSJ is that SSJ is specifically "Battle Power x50." The reason I find this distinction to be important is because SSJ2 and SSJ3 are introduced after people mastered SSJ, meaning it's no longer as simple as calling it the same x50 multiplier that it was when first introduced.

In other words, it's a x10 multiplier of Strength, with the users using only a percentage of that total strength prior to mastering it (specifically, whatever amount equates to BPx50 at this point). This means SSJ2 isn't the same as becoming 100x stronger than base form, but rather, 20x stronger, and SSJ3 4x stronger than that.

This would also explain where SSJ Grades 2 and 3 come from. Because SSJ still hasn't been mastered, Grade 2 is caused by going beyond the initial transformation's "base" strength (meaning, that BP x50 level), while Grade 3 is what happens when you tap into all of the SSJ's x10 strength. Because it hasn't been mastered, this stress causes a muscle-bulging power-up akin to Kamesennin and Freeza's full-power states. It's a side-effect of stress on the body, while mastering it means that stress is gone (and therefore the side-effect). In other words, FP-SSJ is essentially the same as SSJ Grade 3.

[Super Vegetto]

Meh,,he made Kaio ken 10/20x so i don't know how 10x SSJ got into his head...

[Dayspring]

Meh,,he made Kaio ken 10/20x so i don't know how 10x SSJ got into his head...

Um... my whole post explains the difference.

[Hugo Boss]

I have kind of the same impression. The difference between Super Saiyan and Regular form after Freeza Arc seems to shrink over time. To the point that after Battle of Gods is almost unnoticeable. Maybe it's because regular form stopped being relevant with Super Saiyan around. Goku vs. Yakon could be a special case.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't think Toriyama ever though of SS as a 50x boost, more just like stronger than base form.

[Hitiro]

This interview took place almost 20 years after he drew the chapters though. It it likely he long forgot about Goku's Kaioken ability. His exact words were:

"Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."

The important thing here is Akira Toriyama said his strength had increased up to 10 times what it had been up to that point. And at that point Goku was actively using KKx10 and also pushed to use KKx20. So, Goku would have been 300 million to 600 million against Freeza with if we consider what his strength had been up to that point.

Including the fact that he was using KKx10 actively, his power would be 100x rather than 50x. Because he drew it with the thought that he was 10x stronger than how he was currently drawing it which was already 10x stronger than what Goku actually is.

[Kaboom]

I don't think Toriyama's "10x" comment was meant in any authoritative or literal sense. Based on the wording and context, I think he was just essentially saying, "it's been set as 50x (like this very same book series says), but that's a REALLY big number that's hard to imagine, and it FELT more like 10x to me when I wrote and drew stuff."

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Actually, I'm suspecting that Toriyama confused the Oozaru multiplier with the Super Saiyan multiplier in that interview. It makes no sense for him to talk about a x10 multiplier on top of KKx20, and it makes no sense for him to have a x10 multiplier at that point of the story.

[Hitiro]

Actually, I'm suspecting that Toriyama confused the Oozaru multiplier with the Super Saiyan multiplier in that interview. It makes no sense for him to talk about a x10 multiplier on top of KKx20, and it makes no sense for him to have a x10 multiplier at that point of the story.

Why doesn't it make sense for him to be talking about a 10x multiplier on top of KKx10/20? The interview took place almost 20 years after the chapter. He says that when he drew it, it felt like a 10x increase of Goku's strength up till that point. Up till that point Goku was actively using KKx10 at least. So 10x that strength would be 100x Goku's base strength. He is surely going to forget that KKx10 was involved after 20 years. So of course he is going to find it weird that 50x would be too much. Because that would be 500x if he forgot that Goku was using something to augment his strength already.

It's not like he was purposely saying 10x KKx10. He just thought that KKx10 was Goku's strength at the time after 20 years since he more than likely forgot Goku had Kaioken as an ability. So basically:

When he drew the chapters
Goku's base strength - 3
KKx10 - 30
SSJ - 300 (Drawn with a 10x increase.)

After 20ish years
Goku's base strength - 30 (Mistakenly see's KKx10 level for base Goku because he forgot KKx10 existed)
SSJ - 15,000 (50x "base" way too much if he is thinking KKx10 level was Goku's base strength because he forgot it existed.)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But KKx10 wasn't Goku's base level, and he didn't use it for long in his fight with Freeza. Goku having a x100 multiplier also doesn't make sense, because if that was the case, Freeza wouldn't have been able to have a fight with Goku. And that's not based on the Daizenshuu numbers, it's based on the manga.

[Dayspring]

It's also more than likely that he didn't want Kaioken to actually be a straight-up multiplier so much as saying it is has a lot of dramatic effect. Kind of like saying "using mystery technique X increases your strength exponentially" while not actually wanting a strength to increase exponentially because that'd be insane. After all, Kaioken x1 is shown to be a massive boost even though it's not actually doing anything if you understand how multiplication works.

From here, I think he saw Kaioken x10 as "a big strength boost," Kaioken x20 as "a bigger strength boost" and SSJ as "multiplies strength by 10." In other words, he saw Kaioken as not truly being a multiplier, while seeing SSJ as an actual multiplier.

[Hitiro]

But KKx10 wasn't Goku's base level, and he didn't use it for long in his fight with Freeza. Goku having a x100 multiplier also doesn't make sense, because if that was the case, Freeza wouldn't have been able to have a fight with Goku. And that's not based on the Daizenshuu numbers, it's based on the manga.

Yes, KKx10 wasn't Goku's base level. But like I said, this is 20 ish years after the chapters. So of course Akira Toriyama isn't going to remember something like KKx10. All he probably remembers is Goku being "that" strong. So in his head KKx10 Goku level would be Goku's base level because he doesn't remember KKx10. And why would it not make sense if it was a 100x multiplier? It depends on how much energy Goku lost really by the time he went SSJ. But I'm not really saying it makes sense. I'm just saying that it is more than likely that he took Goku's strength at the time to be his base level because he doesn't recall the Kaioken technique. Hell, he forgot about SSJ2 despite it being a pretty important transformation for the Cell arc. And he used it right the way up until the end of the manga unlike Kaioken which only had a few showings.

I mean if we take the Guidebooks battle powers then Goku would need 50x his power to match Freeza's power if the gap remained the same. But if the gap widened between Goku and Freeza. Goku would need a lot more than 50x to match Freeza.

Hypothetical
Goku(After being damaged): 1.5 million
Freeza(After being damaged): 100 million
SSJ Goku: 75 million

[Neon Z]

I always took that interview's quote to mean that, although, using the numbers given up until then, SSJ should be 50 times stronger, in practice everything afterwards, both story and action scenes were actually drawn with something like "10 times stronger" in mind for SSJ. I think it makes sense and it's even something people commonly notice with the lack of escalation in the Cell Saga - both in the destruction shown in action scenes but also some story elements, like Kuririn comparing Piccolo's power to SSJs(before fusion) or Tenshinhan even being able to stop Cell for a moment. If you look at the scale, the only feat in the Cell Saga above the Freeza Saga's was likely Cell's boast about being able to destroy the entire solar system, and by that point the SSJ had had various power ups and Cell himself was about SSJ2 level.