Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:32 am
I've asked the wacky What If question about a normal everyday Joe dying and getting reincarnated in the Dragon Ball world as Freeza. Now I'll ask a similar What If, only more in-universe:
What If after getting sliced in half by Future Trunks, Freeza got reincarnated as a human female, born around the same time as Present Trunks and Goten?
Unless she is born in a family close to Capsule Corp and wealthy enough to interact with them, she wouldn't ever meet them or know they exist at all, live her life and get killed by Buu(you could say she was the girl that died walking by holding her mother's hand).
At best she would see the sky go dark and think to herself oh those Capsule Corp guys doing Capsule Corp-things again. And seeing how Uub retained no memories from being Buu, she wouldn't remember she was Freeza and without somebody wishing for it, she wouldn't have the power either.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:32 am
I've asked the wacky What If question about a normal everyday Joe dying and getting reincarnated in the Dragon Ball world as Freeza. Now I'll ask a similar What If, only more in-universe:
What If after getting sliced in half by Future Trunks, Freeza got reincarnated as a human female, born around the same time as Present Trunks and Goten?
Unless she is born in a family close to Capsule Corp and wealthy enough to interact with them, she wouldn't ever meet them or know they exist at all, live her life and get killed by Buu(you could say she was the girl that died walking by holding her mother's hand).
At best she would see the sky go dark and think to herself oh those Capsule Corp guys doing Capsule Corp-things again. And seeing how Uub retained no memories from being Buu, she wouldn't remember she was Freeza and without somebody wishing for it, she wouldn't have the power either.
I see where you're going with this, but that's a boring way to go about this scenario. So, to make the story at least a little bit more interesting, how about if she was born in a family close to Capsule Corp. and was wealthy enough to interact with them (let's say Capsule Corp's biggest rival right now). How do you think the scenario would play out there?
Dragon Ball Gus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:32 am
I've asked the wacky What If question about a normal everyday Joe dying and getting reincarnated in the Dragon Ball world as Freeza. Now I'll ask a similar What If, only more in-universe:
What If after getting sliced in half by Future Trunks, Freeza got reincarnated as a human female, born around the same time as Present Trunks and Goten?
Unless she is born in a family close to Capsule Corp and wealthy enough to interact with them, she wouldn't ever meet them or know they exist at all, live her life and get killed by Buu(you could say she was the girl that died walking by holding her mother's hand).
At best she would see the sky go dark and think to herself oh those Capsule Corp guys doing Capsule Corp-things again. And seeing how Uub retained no memories from being Buu, she wouldn't remember she was Freeza and without somebody wishing for it, she wouldn't have the power either.
I see where you're going with this, but that's a boring way to go about this scenario. So, to make the story at least a little bit more interesting, how about if she was born in a family close to Capsule Corp. and was wealthy enough to interact with them (let's say Capsule Corp's biggest rival right now). How do you think the scenario would play out there?
Ok, then, she would probably become a member of the Pilaf gang seeing that they are a bunch of "kids" running around, so she may meet them and join them, or should I say follow them because they don't seem to welcome outsiders. With Trunks befriending Mai, Pilaf and the dog getting to go behind the bushes, we would have Goten and Freezine(lol) getting to know each other, and through him becoming a part of the Pilaf gang. Giving Mai some other girl to talk about Future Trunks or even Trunks.
It would be funny to see Freezine gawking over the guy that cut her in half and fighting Mai over his attention, and Trunks and Goten, forgotten for a while. She would become the canon Pares(Goten's girlfriend from GT) and most likely be another factor in Goten's transition from fighter to just a young man enjoying life.
We would have no RoF, and of course no Freeza for the ToP. The no RoF thing would have no major repercussions, we can skip that awful movie and lose nothing, we would get rif off the convoluted base beyond god stuff, but by the ToP, U7 would probaly fail to defeat Jiren without Freeza. Broly would also die of old age or inanition in Vampa.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
This is another one of Masako's What Ifs that I wanna get you guys' perspectives on:
What If Bulma became a Z Fighter, but instead of through usual martial arts, through her technology? Basically, becoming the Tony Stark/Iron Man of the Dragon World.
What if when Kami and Piccolo became one again, his evil side took over and the original Piccolo Daimaoh returned? with 1st form Cell not as strong, and 16 and 17 only at his level or above, and saiyans and earthlings below him. What would happen?
Could Katatsu's son conquer Earth? how would he go about it? would he pretend to be good to use the Z-senshi vs the androids? would he be more calculating or go all out like a demon? would Gohan die first, last, be spared?
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:22 pm
What if when Kami and Piccolo became one again, his evil side took over and the original Piccolo Daimaoh returned? with 1st form Cell not as strong, and 16 and 17 only at his level or above, and saiyans and earthlings below him. What would happen?
Could Katatsu's son conquer Earth? how would he go about it? would he pretend to be good to use the Z-senshi vs the androids? would he be more calculating or go all out like a demon? would Gohan die first, last, be spared?
Hmm well upon fusing I think he might kill Popo which could alarm everyone else. I think sense he knows about Cell he would go over and either A try and kill him due to perceiving him as a threat or B enlist him as an ally. He would probably use everyone's trust as him as a way to kill them. For instance when Krillin, Trunks, Vegeta, and Tien come to visit him he would probably murder the four of them with little resistance. Piccolo would then try and hunt Goku. Piccolo, Goku, and Gohan would probably run into each other with Goku and Gohan unable to do much however before Goku could be murdered the Androids would arrive. Android 16 I could see finish off Goku or something as Android 17 would challenge Piccolo. The two would have their even match like the cannon only with Android 17 not being absorbed and thus defeating Piccolo. After that I would say the Androids once again ravage the Earth thanks to Piccolo's evil.
If he enlisted Cell then Cell would stay with him until becoming stronger and would then kill him, absorb the androids and achieve Perfection being unrivaled
What if, wanting insurance agains't Piccolo Jr. after Gokus very narrow win, Kami trained the humans like he did before the saiyans.
So lets say a kami trained Kuririn is there when Raditz shows up.
Scenario 2, lets say, butterfly effect wise, Yamcha is there too.
How does the Raditz fight go down differently?
If others die how does them being Kaio trained help?
Are there not enough people to hold off the saiyans for long enough? Or do they get stronger as well because they start that year of training already stronger? Does Goku perhaps having a sparring partner at Kaios help them both, and make them fly back to earth faster making up for their reduced forces? Or does no one die V Raditz and they are too weak for Vegeta? Maybe they remember the RoSaT?
Due to butterfly effect do they not mention the dragonballs and this changes Vegetas tactics? Or they don't mention them and Goku dies so they never come to earth?
What do you think?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga. Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
TobyS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:38 pm
What if, wanting insurance agains't Piccolo Jr. after Gokus very narrow win, Kami trained the humans like he did before the saiyans.
So lets say a kami trained Kuririn is there when Raditz shows up.
Scenario 2, lets say, butterfly effect wise, Yamcha is there too.
How does the Raditz fight go down differently?
If others die how does them being Kaio trained help?
Are there not enough people to hold off the saiyans for long enough? Or do they get stronger as well because they start that year of training already stronger? Does Goku perhaps having a sparring partner at Kaios help them both, and make them fly back to earth faster making up for their reduced forces? Or does no one die V Raditz and they are too weak for Vegeta? Maybe they remember the RoSaT?
Due to butterfly effect do they not mention the dragonballs and this changes Vegetas tactics? Or they don't mention them and Goku dies so they never come to earth?
What do you think?
I think the answer(s) largely depends on why the humans got so strong after just six months of training. As best I can see there are three in story possibilities
1) They were more receptive to Kami's training.
Spoiler:
Goku was an unruly child and treated martial arts like a game. This split Kami's attention between accomodating Goku's immaturity and actually improving his overall strength. The humans on the other hand were not only adults but each one saw martial arts as a spiritual pursuit. Krillin was a monk, Yamcha very obviously spent his childhood obsessing over bits of martial arts lore, and Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were ready to throw away their childhood home because their master was disrespecting the Budokai rules. Also worth noting that Yajirobe, the character with the least reverent attitude towards the martial arts, also improved the least of the group.
2) Having multiple rivals helped push the humans beyond their limits.
Spoiler:
Goku only had Mr Popo as a sparring partner. With no one to chase or measure himself against, Goku had no way to really gauge how hard he should be pushing himself. The humans meanwhile had multiple sparring partners that they could immediately pit their new knowledge against. They were able to more quickly see what worked and why and make adjustments as needed. Furthermore, they all knew each other from the WMATs. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that Yamcha and Tenshinhan rehashed their 22nd Tournament fight a dozen times while they waited for the Saiyans to arrive.
3) Kami deliberately held Goku back.
Spoiler:
Due to their connection, Piccolo would have a very good estimate of how strong Goku was and how strong he needed to be to match that. Under this explanation, Kami fears what might happen to the world should Goku and Piccolo's power grow too outrageously. Plus, what exactly happens if this super powered Goku loses? While no single martial arts could touch Piccolo Daimao, that was largely due to how spread thin Earth's warriors had been. A healthy group led by a warrior like Tenshinhan would have a legitimate chance to win. But that chance would disappear if Piccolo pushed himself to Raditz level in trying to keep up with Goku.
Under possibility 1 and possibility 3 I don't know if a lot changes. Sure Goku and Krillin are much stronger but Raditz isn't stupid. If he pops out of his spacepod and picks up half a dozen battle powers near his own, he isn't about to charge them. We know he's willing to swallow his pride to gain an advantage. At the risk of falling of sounding too much like a fanfic writer, I think that situation Raditz would approach Goku and play up being his long lost brother. When the oppurtunity is right he'd try to kidnap Gohan, be caught by Goku, and the two would fight. Goku's kind nature would once again get the better of him, Raditz would get in a mortal shot but with the last of his strength Goku would kill Raditz. ChiChi (riding Kintoun because why does she keep using a car when there's a perfectly good magic cloud available) would comfort Gohan that Goku can be wished back and that would set in motion the rest of the Saiyan Arc. Maybe there's a fourth survivor because they'd be much closer to Nappa's level but Nappa would also be much less willing to fuck around and would go for kill shots from the get the go.
Under possibility 2 I do think a lot would change. Under the other two explanations the humans would hit a wall that they wouldn't know how to overcome. Kami would bring them to as powerful as he could make then and then the humans would see marginal gains from that point. But with the humans all pushing each other further and further just how far they can get becomes much more nebulous. Do they hit Nappa tier? Do they hit Kaio trained Goku tier? I honestly don't really know but I'm inclined to think that all that power would lead to headaches with Piccolo. From my reading of the character, what leads him away from the demonclan is just how quickly he eclipses everyone except Goku. With nothing else to do except plot Goku's death he has a lot of time to just think and go over his life. If he suddenly has to keep pace with these overwhelmingly potent humans, he'll never pause to think or grow resentful of the situation his father has put him in. It'll all get pushed aside as he looks for new ways to amass power. And maybe that leads to its own proper Piccolo War. But just as likely I think he discovers he likes to compete against the humans and Goku and begins to mellow out as Vegeta does in the real story.
What I am curious about tho is how often the PTO checks to see the average battle power of a planet. Is it a yearly thing? Is it automatic? Would Appule's third cousin get a red text box on his monitor alerting him to a high powerlevel appearing on Earth a world that according to their records should already have been purged of all sentient life? What's the protocol for that? Whatever it is, I'm positive it'd be at least as big a problem as the fight against Vegeta.
EDIT: Also also, when whatever task force the PTO sends to investigate Earth reports back that there's a Saiyan on Earth and that he's managed to breed with the locals, what happens to Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz? Sure they're completely innocent of treasonous action but nobody likes them anyway. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine someone like Dodoria being sent to kill them off. I'm also inclined to think they survive as Vegeta still has his fake moon thing which would easily put them ahead of whatever attack force is sent to kill them. Maybe they head to Earth afterwards to meet this lost Saiyan?
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.
"If someone gets Star Wars wrong? Death threats. If a kid learns that a shitty song they liked when they were 12 was a cover of a song made in 1984? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that's too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that isn't too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone criticizes Naruto? Lots of death threats. Sexualizes pokemon? UNIVERSAL PRAISE." - Plague of Gripes
GT What If (sort of):
What If instead of the Universal Genki Dama, in order to defeat Omega Shenron, Goku used a ritual of pure hearted Saiyans (in this case, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan) to become the Saiyan of Legends, the Super Saiyan God?
TobyS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:38 pm
What if, wanting insurance agains't Piccolo Jr. after Gokus very narrow win, Kami trained the humans like he did before the saiyans.
So lets say a kami trained Kuririn is there when Raditz shows up.
Scenario 2, lets say, butterfly effect wise, Yamcha is there too.
How does the Raditz fight go down differently?
If others die how does them being Kaio trained help?
Are there not enough people to hold off the saiyans for long enough? Or do they get stronger as well because they start that year of training already stronger? Does Goku perhaps having a sparring partner at Kaios help them both, and make them fly back to earth faster making up for their reduced forces? Or does no one die V Raditz and they are too weak for Vegeta? Maybe they remember the RoSaT?
Due to butterfly effect do they not mention the dragonballs and this changes Vegetas tactics? Or they don't mention them and Goku dies so they never come to earth?
What do you think?
I think nobody dies with Krilin on the court. With Yamcha then Raditz has no chance. In less than a year they became enough to kill saibaimen who were Raditz tier. It would be detrimental for Goku's future growth. Vegeta and Nappa would never learn about the DBs, just like Raditz. They would never go out of their way to avenge him, so eventually, Freeza would conquer Earth. Probably after many years of peace and slice of life events.
Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:01 am
What if Gowasu had Zamasu meet Obni instead of the Babarians? Would Zamasu still hate mortals?
I don't think what Zamasu witnessed actually changed his mind. He was just looking for validation of his beliefs, he would've found that even if it wasn't there.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:01 pm
GT What If (sort of):
What If instead of the Universal Genki Dama, in order to defeat Omega Shenron, Goku used a ritual of pure hearted Saiyans (in this case, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan) to become the Saiyan of Legends, the Super Saiyan God?
I don't think it would change much, I believe SS4 and SSG are relatable witht SSG having the edge, but not enough to defeat Omega. To me, SSB is needed, but maybe if SS4 Vegeta joined the fight once more they'd have a shot.
What if Goku never came back after taking Negative Karma Ball and Trunks and the others listened to Vegeta and left Earth to train and avenge both of them?
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
sunsetshimmer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:17 pm
What if Goku never came back after taking Negative Karma Ball and Trunks and the others listened to Vegeta and left Earth to train and avenge both of them?
Vegeta dies, Goku dies, Earth dies. So I guess their only shot is going to Kaioshin Kai and get their potential unleashed. The old kaioshin might think of a way to get all of their tails out, through the DBs I'm thinking if New Namek is still there. With a team of potential-unleashed-SS4 people they could give Omega a run for his money.
That would be SS4 Gohan, SS4 Goten, SS4 Trunks (so SS4 Gotenks or SS4 Truten if they use Potara), and probably SS4 Pan? can't tell if hybrid's offspring can go ohzaru, but even if she can't, her potential unleashed would still be a force to reckon. Plus Majuub, that should still be around to be used as a shield. Omega goes down, Vegeta was right. They are too much, even if they aren't as strong as their fathers.
If they can't get their tails back and can only rely on their hidden potential, then I think only through perfect teamwork they can succeed.
Peach wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:55 am
What if Hit ringed out Monaka and the two Earth's were permanently switched?
(Yes, Future Trunks is deserted on the traded Earth thinking Black or Majin Buu did it)
(First of all, poor trunks.)
Well, Universe 6 would now have a pretty decent ToP team.
Goku
Vegeta
Hit
Gohan
17
Kale
Caulifa
Cabba
Frost
Piccolo
While U7 would be scrapping the barrel. If Beerus caught on to Trunks. He would recruit him and destroyed Black. Promising him the super dragon balls to fix his timeline. So let’s say Beerus recruits Trunks. The team would be...
Omgzord wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:30 am
What if universe 7 brought in Broly and Moro for the tournament of power? Do the other universes have any chance of surviving this?
It depends.
If Moro can absorb energy from the Gods of Destruction in the audience, Top/Topp, and/or Jiren, no.
Broly might be a liability in the sense that he might kill someone. It took hours and the death of his father to get close to Jiren levels of power.
What If Dr. Gero made Oolong and Yamcha into Androids? And What If he also found Lapis and Lazuli early? All of this happening in between the Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc and the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.
