The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:02 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:32 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:25 pm
TobyS wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:13 pm

I've been meaning to make my first foray into DB video essays on this topic but no Vegeta is still an overly tsundere weird nutcase despite being like a 50 y.o with kids. He goes SS Blue when someone holds his kids wrong, Vegeta is much more friendly and conversational with the rest of the dragon team in the manga.

It's subtle but it's there. The anime just hams stuff up, like how they make chichi a complete psycho instead of a concerned parent.
"Vegeta is much more friendly and conversational in the manga"

No he isn't lol, in fact he's never been shown to be normally friendly to anyone in any DB media, its simply not who he is. And the seen of him going SSB when they hold baby Bra wrong is just a silly gag scene, there's nothing "tsundere" about it you're taking it way too seriously lol.

"Like how they made Chichi a complete psycho instead of a concerned parent"

She's just as psycho in the original manga, the anime never adds anything to characters that wasn't present in the OG manga. Admit it, you just have a clear bias for the manga.
Vegeta in the DBS anime is still obsessed with being better than Goku which he is supposed to have let go of his grudge against Goku.

The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen.

The anime adds a bunch of scenes where Chi-Chi is forcing Gohan to study every waking moment even forcing him to study when Goku is bed-ridden and there are killer androids on the loose, and buying weird shit like a study bed.

Chi-Chi in DBS also doesn't let Goten fight at all and rages at the very suggestion but unlike in Z she never calms down or make compromise. It goes against how she was in the Boo arc where she was the who taught Goten how to fight.
- Vegeta NEVER stated in his speech in the Buu arc that he didn't want to be the best/better than Goku anymore. The whole point of that scene was that he simply didnt hate Goku anymore and gets why Goku is Goku. Also, didn't he also declare that he would surpass Goku at the very end of the OG manga?

Either way, Vegeta is explicitly more obsessed with Goku in the DBS Manga and even GT (where he cheats his way into SSJ4 just to play catch-up) than he is in the DBS Anime (where he pretty much stops thinking about Goku at all once Jiren challenges him).

- "The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen."

Where is the exaggeration? It isn't even a particularly serious scene. I swear, people in this fandom over-scrutinize every little thing Vegeta does while never holding the same standards to any other character, not even the actual protagonist Goku. It's so stupid and annoying.

- The overbearing tiger-mom stuff with Chi-Chi is also in the original manga and in all Post-Z media, sure the Z anime added more scenes with this (which was Toriyama's idea) but the characterization is the exact same in the manga.

- "Chi-Chi never let's Goten fight", she was okay with Goten fighting in the Buu saga because Goku was dead and Gohan already became what she wanted him to be, plus when Buu was around Goten and Trunks was Earth's only defensive against Buu.

This no longer applies to Super, where Goku is back and there's plenty of foes way beyond Goten's level, nor GT where Goten is an adult and can do what he wants.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:27 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:02 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:32 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:25 pm

"Vegeta is much more friendly and conversational in the manga"

No he isn't lol, in fact he's never been shown to be normally friendly to anyone in any DB media, its simply not who he is. And the seen of him going SSB when they hold baby Bra wrong is just a silly gag scene, there's nothing "tsundere" about it you're taking it way too seriously lol.

"Like how they made Chichi a complete psycho instead of a concerned parent"

She's just as psycho in the original manga, the anime never adds anything to characters that wasn't present in the OG manga. Admit it, you just have a clear bias for the manga.
Vegeta in the DBS anime is still obsessed with being better than Goku which he is supposed to have let go of his grudge against Goku.

The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen.

The anime adds a bunch of scenes where Chi-Chi is forcing Gohan to study every waking moment even forcing him to study when Goku is bed-ridden and there are killer androids on the loose, and buying weird shit like a study bed.

Chi-Chi in DBS also doesn't let Goten fight at all and rages at the very suggestion but unlike in Z she never calms down or make compromise. It goes against how she was in the Boo arc where she was the who taught Goten how to fight.
- Vegeta NEVER stated in his speech in the Buu arc that he didn't want to be the best/better than Goku anymore. The whole point of that scene was that he simply didnt hate Goku anymore and gets why Goku is Goku. Also, didn't he also declare that he would surpass Goku at the very end of the OG manga?

Either way, Vegeta is explicitly more obsessed with Goku in the DBS Manga and even GT (where he cheats his way into SSJ4 just to play catch-up) than he is in the DBS Anime (where he pretty much stops thinking about Goku at all once Jiren challenges him).

- "The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen."

Where is the exaggeration? It isn't even a particularly serious scene. I swear, people in this fandom over-scrutinize every little thing Vegeta does while never holding the same standards to any other character, not even the actual protagonist Goku. It's so stupid and annoying.

- The overbearing tiger-mom stuff with Chi-Chi is also in the original manga and in all Post-Z media, sure the Z anime added more scenes with this (which was Toriyama's idea) but the characterization is the exact same in the manga.

- "Chi-Chi never let's Goten fight", she was okay with Goten fighting in the Buu saga because Goku was dead and Gohan already became what she wanted him to be, plus when Buu was around Goten and Trunks was Earth's only defensive against Buu.

This no longer applies to Super, where Goku is back and there's plenty of foes way beyond Goten's level, nor GT where Goten is an adult and can do what he wants.
- In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb.

- Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him

- It's a lot more than just adding scenes when they have stuff like her buying a study bed and making her son study when his father is bedridden from an illness as they hide him from killer androids. Toei purposely exaggerates her character as one screenwriter even admitted.

- She went out of him to train him. Her attitude towards her kids learning martial arts in general loosened up as Gohan even acknowledges in the anime. Besides, she should know by now it's pointless to be holding back one of the universe's strongest fighters even if they are children.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:40 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:27 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:02 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:32 pm
Vegeta in the DBS anime is still obsessed with being better than Goku which he is supposed to have let go of his grudge against Goku.

The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen.

The anime adds a bunch of scenes where Chi-Chi is forcing Gohan to study every waking moment even forcing him to study when Goku is bed-ridden and there are killer androids on the loose, and buying weird shit like a study bed.

Chi-Chi in DBS also doesn't let Goten fight at all and rages at the very suggestion but unlike in Z she never calms down or make compromise. It goes against how she was in the Boo arc where she was the who taught Goten how to fight.
- Vegeta NEVER stated in his speech in the Buu arc that he didn't want to be the best/better than Goku anymore. The whole point of that scene was that he simply didnt hate Goku anymore and gets why Goku is Goku. Also, didn't he also declare that he would surpass Goku at the very end of the OG manga?

Either way, Vegeta is explicitly more obsessed with Goku in the DBS Manga and even GT (where he cheats his way into SSJ4 just to play catch-up) than he is in the DBS Anime (where he pretty much stops thinking about Goku at all once Jiren challenges him).

- "The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen."

Where is the exaggeration? It isn't even a particularly serious scene. I swear, people in this fandom over-scrutinize every little thing Vegeta does while never holding the same standards to any other character, not even the actual protagonist Goku. It's so stupid and annoying.

- The overbearing tiger-mom stuff with Chi-Chi is also in the original manga and in all Post-Z media, sure the Z anime added more scenes with this (which was Toriyama's idea) but the characterization is the exact same in the manga.

- "Chi-Chi never let's Goten fight", she was okay with Goten fighting in the Buu saga because Goku was dead and Gohan already became what she wanted him to be, plus when Buu was around Goten and Trunks was Earth's only defensive against Buu.

This no longer applies to Super, where Goku is back and there's plenty of foes way beyond Goten's level, nor GT where Goten is an adult and can do what he wants.
- In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb.

- Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him

- It's a lot more than just adding scenes when they have stuff like her buying a study bed and making her son study when his father is bedridden from an illness as they hide him from killer androids. Toei purposely exaggerates her character as one screenwriter even admitted.

- She went out of him to train him. Her attitude towards her kids learning martial arts in general loosened up as Gohan even acknowledges in the anime. Besides, she should know by now it's pointless to be holding back one of the universe's strongest fighters even if they are children.
- "In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb."

No he doesn't, he didn't even seem to particularly care about Goku getting UI when he got it (Vegeta had no serious reaction to it in the hour special). And didn't give his energy to the spirit bomb because he knew that it wouldn't work and would have just wasted everyone's energy (which is exactly what happened), not because of any "rivalry".

- "Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him"

If thats accurate to the character then wtf is the problem lol? And calling the baby Bulla scene him "flipping out" is a massive exaggeration and is just another example of this Fandom stupidly whining about Vegeta over every little thing smh.

- Adding more scenes to an already existing character trait isn't "exaggeration", since you failed to prove that Chi-Chi isn't an obsessed tiger mom in the OG manga at all.

- You failed to read my final paragraph about Chi-Chi training Goten in my last post.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:21 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:40 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:27 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:02 pm

- Vegeta NEVER stated in his speech in the Buu arc that he didn't want to be the best/better than Goku anymore. The whole point of that scene was that he simply didnt hate Goku anymore and gets why Goku is Goku. Also, didn't he also declare that he would surpass Goku at the very end of the OG manga?

Either way, Vegeta is explicitly more obsessed with Goku in the DBS Manga and even GT (where he cheats his way into SSJ4 just to play catch-up) than he is in the DBS Anime (where he pretty much stops thinking about Goku at all once Jiren challenges him).

- "The scene with Bra is obviously meant to be funny but it still exaggerates Vegeta's character in order for it to happen."

Where is the exaggeration? It isn't even a particularly serious scene. I swear, people in this fandom over-scrutinize every little thing Vegeta does while never holding the same standards to any other character, not even the actual protagonist Goku. It's so stupid and annoying.

- The overbearing tiger-mom stuff with Chi-Chi is also in the original manga and in all Post-Z media, sure the Z anime added more scenes with this (which was Toriyama's idea) but the characterization is the exact same in the manga.

- "Chi-Chi never let's Goten fight", she was okay with Goten fighting in the Buu saga because Goku was dead and Gohan already became what she wanted him to be, plus when Buu was around Goten and Trunks was Earth's only defensive against Buu.

This no longer applies to Super, where Goku is back and there's plenty of foes way beyond Goten's level, nor GT where Goten is an adult and can do what he wants.
- In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb.

- Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him

- It's a lot more than just adding scenes when they have stuff like her buying a study bed and making her son study when his father is bedridden from an illness as they hide him from killer androids. Toei purposely exaggerates her character as one screenwriter even admitted.

- She went out of him to train him. Her attitude towards her kids learning martial arts in general loosened up as Gohan even acknowledges in the anime. Besides, she should know by now it's pointless to be holding back one of the universe's strongest fighters even if they are children.
- "In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb."

No he doesn't, he didn't even seem to particularly care about Goku getting UI when he got it (Vegeta had no serious reaction to it in the hour special). And didn't give his energy to the spirit bomb because he knew that it wouldn't work and would have just wasted everyone's energy (which is exactly what happened), not because of any "rivalry".

- "Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him"

If thats accurate to the character then wtf is the problem lol? And calling the baby Bulla scene him "flipping out" is a massive exaggeration and is just another example of this Fandom stupidly whining about Vegeta over every little thing smh.

- Adding more scenes to an already existing character trait isn't "exaggeration", since you failed to prove that Chi-Chi isn't an obsessed tiger mom in the OG manga at all.

- You failed to read my final paragraph about Chi-Chi training Goten in my last post.
-He still is obsessed with being stronger than Goku in general and it was never explained why Vegeta didn't give Goku any energy but the fact so many people concluded is because of his beef with Goku is pretty telling.

-Still exaggerated. It was weird for Vegeta to be that uppity about it at this point in the series.

-If you can find similar scenes to those in the manga then I'll concede your point. The scene on the plane is especially jarring as in a scene later, she was calmly thanking Trunks for giving them the vaccine. I'm not denying she was an education mom in the manga but it wasn't like she was a complete loon about it.

-Your paragraph doesn't address the fact that she trained him when the world was peaceful even though Gohan and Vegeta were still around.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:35 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:21 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:40 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:27 pm
- In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb.

- Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him

- It's a lot more than just adding scenes when they have stuff like her buying a study bed and making her son study when his father is bedridden from an illness as they hide him from killer androids. Toei purposely exaggerates her character as one screenwriter even admitted.

- She went out of him to train him. Her attitude towards her kids learning martial arts in general loosened up as Gohan even acknowledges in the anime. Besides, she should know by now it's pointless to be holding back one of the universe's strongest fighters even if they are children.
- "In the DBS anime, he acts like Goku being stronger is a problem. He even refuse to give him genesis for the Spirit Bomb."

No he doesn't, he didn't even seem to particularly care about Goku getting UI when he got it (Vegeta had no serious reaction to it in the hour special). And didn't give his energy to the spirit bomb because he knew that it wouldn't work and would have just wasted everyone's energy (which is exactly what happened), not because of any "rivalry".

- "Vegeta is short tempered so they have him absolutely flip out over anything that displeases him"

If thats accurate to the character then wtf is the problem lol? And calling the baby Bulla scene him "flipping out" is a massive exaggeration and is just another example of this Fandom stupidly whining about Vegeta over every little thing smh.

- Adding more scenes to an already existing character trait isn't "exaggeration", since you failed to prove that Chi-Chi isn't an obsessed tiger mom in the OG manga at all.

- You failed to read my final paragraph about Chi-Chi training Goten in my last post.
-He still is obsessed with being stronger than Goku in general and it was never explained why Vegeta didn't give Goku any energy but the fact so many people concluded is because of his beef with Goku is pretty telling.

-Still exaggerated. It was weird for Vegeta to be that uppity about it at this point in the series.

-If you can find similar scenes to those in the manga then I'll concede your point. The scene on the plane is especially jarring as in a scene later, she was calmly thanking Trunks for giving them the vaccine. I'm not denying she was an education mom in the manga but it wasn't like she was a complete loon about it.

-Your paragraph doesn't address the fact that she trained him when the world was peaceful even though Gohan and Vegeta were still around.
Now you're just whining and repeating the same debunked points over and over again smh.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:01 am

What if Chi chi and Bulma were viltrumites (invincible)? How powerful would their children be if they could properly mate and make hybrids with Goku and Vegeta?

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by nineko » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:58 am

I like crossovers, so, what if the Red Ribbon Army hired a competent ninja instead of Murasaki? Since we need someone adult with an inclination to evil, let's say Kabuto from the early chapters of Naruto (e.g. the one who goes undercover to the ninja exams).

Also, what if the island of the Kame House is located in the Grand Line, and Luffy bumps into it by chance while Goku and Kuririn are training? On second thought, this might be too much of a crossover, maybe some other time.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:30 am

Based off Saiyan Salad’s video

What if all the events of GT or the GT verse was within U6?

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Peach » Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:06 am

Berserker1921 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:30 am Based off Saiyan Salad’s video

What if all the events of GT or the GT verse was within U6?
Imo, the Super versions of the characters are far exaggerated by the fanbase. I think the GT versions of the Goku and Vegeta are far stronger and far more experienced. The supporting cast is weaker in GT though. They're retired, elderly, didn't train.



Going to split this up into three parts.


I.

Champa's team might be:
- Goku
- Vegeta
- Uub
- Hit
- Frost

I like to think Hit still exists, Sadala doesn't, and Frost exists. Maybe Frost is an opportunist and a member of Frieza's race who took over the Frieza Force in his absence. Botamo and Magetta may exist, but Champa probably never recruited them.

I see the tournament going like this:
Goku (Super) vs. Uub

Goku is forced to use Blue Kaio Ken to outspeed and ultimately beat Uub. Goku steps away excited to meet his own version of Uub. And Uub makes a mental note for his version of Goku to teach him Kaio Ken later.

Goku (Super) vs. Frost
Piccolo (Super) vs. Frost
Vegeta (Super) vs. Frost

Exactly the same as canon. Goku and Piccolo lose from the poison. And Vegeta beats him. Goku is reinstated.

Vegeta (Super) vs. Vegeta (GT)
GT Vegeta wins.

Goku (Super) vs. Vegeta (GT)
Goku wins. He had more time to recover from his fight earlier and has more stamina. This fight is very close though and Goku only barely just wins. He likely uses speed boosts from Kaio Ken to avoid the brute force of SSJ4 blows.

Goku (Super) vs. Goku (GT)
I don't see GT Goku agreeing to fight Super Goku unless he's healed/given a senzu bean first. Probably a great fight, with GT Goku ultimately winning due to having more experience and power.

Monaka vs. Goku (GT)
GT Goku is smart enough to realize what's going on. Probably make up some excuse like he's out of energy and resigns. Super Goku might be eager to see Hit fight as Super Goku is with Monaka.

Monaka vs. Hit
Hit has no reason to reason to quit since he never forms that bond with Goku. One time skip and Monaka is unconscious.

I see Super Goku possibly walking away from this tournament wanting to learn the Kamehameha x10. Maybe even realizing he doesn't need to be in a constant state of Kaio Ken, and can go in it for a brief attack, and out of it periodically to save stamina.

Super Vegeta may leave this tournament wanting to Bulma to build a blitz wave machine (which I think she would refuse to do, with her working on the time machine). So he would seek out a method to grow his tail back.

I see GT Goku realizing how dangerous Hit could be. Maybe he asks Super Goku and Vegeta how they got the blue hair, and they tell him about the ritual. With GT Goku keeping in mind in the event that Hit becomes a problem.

I think Champa would wish for the universe's most comfortable pillow or some shit. Which happens to belong to Beerus. He gives Hit a time cube.




II.
Depending on which version of Goku that Zamasu steals the body of and which universe he attacks in the future, this arc could be VERY different. I'm inclined to think he would steal Super Goku's body though, because of the presence of divine ki.

I think Super's events would be the same for the most part. Although, I think Vegeta could off Super Saiyan 4 during his beat down of Goku Black (not quite figuring out how to combine it with Blue yet). Also, Goku would break his hands against Merged Zamasu. But this time, it would be from using the Kamehameha x10 for the first time and combining it with Kaioken.

As for the GT universe during this time, they would be dealing with the Hell on Earth and Super 17 conflict. I think Uub might have learned the Kaioken at this point. Leading to him actually beating Super 17. While they celebrate their victory, Dr. Gero and Dr. Myuu might slip away. They would go to Dr. Gero's lab to see how project Cell is coming along, but find Dr. Gero's lab destroyed. This may prompt them to come up with other ideas, and Dr. Myuu gets the idea to contact Hit The Assassin to kill Goku.

Hit makes his way to Earth and battles Goku. Hit may be pushed to use the time freeze move he used on Jiren. Unlike Jiren, Goku isn't able to break it. So while Goku is frozen in time, Hit delivers a killing blow. Maybe Uub could discover Goku's body and react in anger and horror, as Goku did after he discovered Krillin's body against Tamborine so many years ago.

Elsewhere in space, Myuu and Gero begin a new Cell project. This time, incorporating cells from Baby, Uub, and Hit. Frost, who watched the situation unfold on Earth and followed them to their current location, approaches them from the shadows saying something like, "And you do intend to add God of Destruction Champa's DNA to that as well?" ....Then Frost offers to team up, telling them about an upcoming tournament.



III.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:33 pm

What if Goku Black didn't team up with Future Zamasu and decided to make himself immortal. How far can he make it on his own?
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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:57 pm

What if Goku and Vegeta split the 1 senzu and went to face majin boo together when he was first released?

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:02 am

What if Nail lied to Piccolo, and he was the driving force behind the Super Namekian? and after they defeated Freeza (Nail was as devoted to Goku and Gohan as Piccolo), his allegiance remained to the Namek people, so no Piccolo for the android arc? how does that arc play out without Big Green?


Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:33 pm What if Goku Black didn't team up with Future Zamasu and decided to make himself immortal. How far can he make it on his own?
Probably as far as with Zamasu. Every intervention of Zamasu was mostly helpful because of his immortality. He'd be like fused Zamasu, only not as strong.
Vegito probably would've been able to hold him off without destroying his body, the Mafuba would've been key. With just one enemy, Goku might not forget the lid. Maybe not even fusion is needed, a SSB team up might do the trick, while one guy fights(two in the anime), the other one mafubas the shit outta Black. Come to think of it, Vegito might still be needed, because Black would zenkai the shit out of his body, but still Vegito would be more than enough, considering Black was already exploiting that and wasn't beyond SSB tier.

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:57 pm What if Goku and Vegeta split the 1 senzu and went to face majin boo together when he was first released?
That might work. They wouldn't be fully recovered, but there would be two of them. SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta, even if they aren't at their strongest, together should be able to obliterate Buu, whatever SS3 Goku might not be able to do, gets done because of Vegeta's helping hand. Maybe, they can even get there before Gohan gets KO'd.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:31 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:33 pm What if Goku Black didn't team up with Future Zamasu and decided to make himself immortal. How far can he make it on his own?
The plan he devised required specifically that his partner get Immortality, otherwise it wasn't going to work.

Black's plan to get stronger involved getting beat up/hurt repeatedly so that the Zenkai boosts could kick in. That's why he's a masochist who enjoys whenever someone hits him, because that pain makes him stronger. That's why he laughs when people kick and punch him, which freaks out his opponents (so it's an in-universe fact that Black is a masochist who freaks out people). But if he was immortal, then he would never get damaged nor would he ever be in pain, which means that the Zenkai boosts would never kick in.

Indeed, Future Zamasu demonstrates several times that being Immortal means that no attack can ever damage or hurt you. Black needed an Immortal partner but he himself needed to remain in a mortal body that can be hurt.

That's why Black is a genius, he really thought about everything in his plan. :think:

It should also be noted that Heroes presents an alternative timeline where a version of Goku Black, having learned of his original demise, decided to ditch the plan to team up with Future Zamasu and basically just started slaughtering every Goku in all the timelines to be the strongest. Implying that he could still find a way to carry out his plan without relying on Immortality.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by nineko » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:06 am

Let me try again with a different question.

What if Buu absorbed Chaotzu along with Piccolo and the others? Sure Chaotzu is weak, but he has access to some interesting psychic abilities, which would be greatly amplified by Buu's superior power.

Chaotzu wasn't able to stop Nappa, but he was able to stop Goku at the Tenkaichi Budokai, so stopping a somewhat stronger person isn't out of the question (just like Shin was able to stop Gohan). As ridiculous as this sounds, Buu might have won against Vegeth just by absorbing Chaotzu.

And thanks to Piccolo's intelligence, Buu wouldn't fall for math questions.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by theherodjl » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:34 pm

nineko wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:06 am Let me try again with a different question.

What if Buu absorbed Chaotzu along with Piccolo and the others? Sure Chaotzu is weak, but he has access to some interesting psychic abilities, which would be greatly amplified by Buu's superior power.

Chaotzu wasn't able to stop Nappa, but he was able to stop Goku at the Tenkaichi Budokai, so stopping a somewhat stronger person isn't out of the question (just like Shin was able to stop Gohan). As ridiculous as this sounds, Buu might have won against Vegeth just by absorbing Chaotzu.

And thanks to Piccolo's intelligence, Buu wouldn't fall for math questions.
Unfortunately, Chaozu's mental powers were old news by the time the Boo arc rolled around. Telekinesis was a power that a wide range of characters had exhibited since the Saiyan arc as well as the fact that some of them had performed much greater feats than Chaozu ever did. Piccolo's lifted up an entire pyramid and sealed large faults in the Earth accidentally created by his training. Freeza's lifted up a mountain-sized chunk of rock to toss at Goku as well as sent Krillin flying into the air and blowing him to bits. Cell molded a massive stone cube out of a mountain and perfectly cut it up into his tournament arena. Heck, Boo already demonstrated that he had mental powers when he lifted a group of people and animals into the air with his mind and transformed them all into clay. Chaozu's contribution to being absorbed by Boo would be a tiny increase in power, the Dodonpa technique, and perhaps the ability to blow himself up which he might have already learned from seeing Vegeta do it. It wouldn't change anything, let alone turning the tide against Vegetto.
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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Wrigglything » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:47 am

What if the Dragon Balls do not allow for people to be revived?
I'm not sure if others have done this (they msot likely have), but I certainly think on how it would really affect the series Saiyan saga and beyond. How would they have dealt the Saiyans, Majin Boo and the Androids/Artificial Humans? Would they even go beyond Earth for Namek if they can't wish for their friends (and family for Gohan) back to life? Is there even a chance they would make it beyond the Saiyan attack?
I certainly think it would've been much closer to History of Trunks than the main series, that's for sure, although given the strength of all aforementioned threats Trunks' future might be seen as a blessing in disguise anyway.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Almighty Majin » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:16 pm

Wrigglything wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:47 am What if the Dragon Balls do not allow for people to be revived?
I'm not sure if others have done this (they msot likely have), but I certainly think on how it would really affect the series Saiyan saga and beyond. How would they have dealt the Saiyans, Majin Boo and the Androids/Artificial Humans? Would they even go beyond Earth for Namek if they can't wish for their friends (and family for Gohan) back to life? Is there even a chance they would make it beyond the Saiyan attack?
I certainly think it would've been much closer to History of Trunks than the main series, that's for sure, although given the strength of all aforementioned threats Trunks' future might be seen as a blessing in disguise anyway.
Well let's see...

King Piccolo Saga:
Krillin, Chiaotzu, and Master Roshi are permanently dead.

Saiyan Saga:
Goku might be less reluctant to sacrifice himself here. If he dies permanently, who is going to stop Piccolo? Piccolo isn't exactly a good guy at that point in the story and it'd be pretty reckless to allow Piccolo to roam freely unopposed. Keep in mind that Gohan's potential is also a new discovery at this point as well so Goku can't be in the mindset to pass the torch already. With that in mind, the fight with Raditz would be dragged out a bit longer, but I believe Goku and Piccolo would pull a win eventually, especially after Gohan injures him. Whether or not Raditz dies here is questionable, I don't think Goku would allow Raditz to be killed so I can see Raditz escaping and coming back with Nappa and Vegeta. This would mean that everyone would have to train at Kami's Lookout, including Piccolo and Gohan. Piccolo would push back against training there, but I can see Goku convincing him to train there to get even stronger. Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan's presence on the lookout would mean better gains for Piccolo and Gohan which means Nappa is likely still going to lose if Goku and Piccolo take him on together. The real problem here is Vegeta which, unless Goku suggests the time chamber or Piccolo fuses with Kami, they'll be destroyed. Let us assume they use the time chamber, it is possible that Goku and Piccolo are the only capable ones of spending any significant amount of time there. If that is the case, I can see them getting strong enough to take down Vegeta. Vegeta still kills Nappa (and Raditz in this scenario) for failing so they're gone for good. Goku still spares Vegeta here. As for other deaths, Yamcha might die here due to the Saibamen unfortunately or he might be stronger due to Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan's presence on the lookout so maybe he doesn't die. I like Yamcha so I'll say he survives.

Namek Saga:
They don't go to Namek and the Dragon Balls were never mentioned so yeah. I guess at this point in the story either Vegeta prepares to return back to Earth for revenge or he tells Goku about Freeza. Either way, Goku would get the gravity chamber idea from the time chamber instead and as a result, Goku and Piccolo would train there. Whether or not Vegeta tries to get revenge doesn't matter since the gravity chamber training will close the gap so he'll spill the beans on Freeza regardless. Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta training via gravity and time chambers will probably be enough to push Freeza to his true form. As for who triggers Goku to get Super Saiyan... probably has to be Piccolo dying. At this point, Piccolo would have been Goku's training partner for a large portion of time and with a void to fill after Krillin's death, Piccolo would be Goku's new best friend here, also Kami dies and that sucks too. Goku defeats Freeza and then escapes with Vegeta who luckily avoids death here since I'm making the assumption that Piccolo takes a hit for Goku and dies first, so Vegeta survives.

Android Saga:
Trunks would still go back in time here and we'd pretty much have things go the same way except no Piccolo. Goku still sacrifices himself here and dies. Trunks dies permanently too due to Cell.

Buu Saga:
As per the main continuity, Gohan still didn't keep up his training even though thinking that is father would never return to the world of the living so the same applies here. Goku comes back for a day, events happen as they did in the original continuity until Buu is released. Vegeta sacrifices himself and is permanently gone, Kibito is dead permanently, everyone killed by Vegeta and Buu are also permanently dead. It would be up to Tien and Yamcha to teach Goten and Trunks fusion and they'd likely still train in the time chamber. Gohan vs Buu goes the same way pretty much. He absorbs Gotenks as well as Tien and Yamcha so he'll get Tien's mindset for fighting. Old Kai will still have to give his life to Goku and Vegito will have to happen. Everyone needs to be removed from Buu and I guess Kid Buu would have to happen since Good Buu would probably get removed still. This is a huge problem because Earth is getting destroyed and everyone will die. I could see Goku and Vegeta making the greater effort to save those absorbed by Buu because they can't rely on the Dragon Balls. I'm going to say they pass the skill check and do save the others in time. There will be no Spirit Bomb so Goku and Vegeta will have to fuse again and win.

Battle of Gods:
The remaining cast who survived Buu will live on the Planet of the Kais for the time being and Beerus will still be faced. Vegeta will be revived by Whis and Tarble gets brought in for the god ritual.

Resurrection F:
There is no RoF.

U6 Tournament:
The Super DBs will be collected to revive everyone on Earth since Earth can still be brought back by Porunga, Super Shenron would have to revive the people who were killed by Buu (asking for everyone who has died on Earth to be revived is way too messy). The team for U7 will be: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Good Buu, and Tien. I'm going to assume that everyone has either received god training or gotten their potential unleashed or a combination of both. Point is, U7 wins and the Super DBs revive everyone killed in the Buu Saga.

Goku Black:
Future Trunks is dead so he can't warn Goku about Goku Black so Zamasu succeeds in his plans and takes over the future. This is unless Trunks' time machine has been kept by Bulma all this time (which would be highly likely) and Vegeta and Gohan would have to go to the future to combat Goku Black and Zamasu. Future Zamasu can get sealed by the Mafuba (they'll learn it from Tien) and Goku Black will eventually get beaten either via training or fusion (likely the latter).

ToP:
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Tien, Yamcha, Good Buu, Android 18 (maybe she became the park ranger here), maybe Broly is found early here. I'd say their chances are good here for winning, things would go relatively the same if not better/easier for U7.

Broly:
If Broly is found by ToP, then he's already training on Beerus Planet by this point.

Moro:
Nothing changes for the most part. Things might be easier though since certain characters are much stronger here.

Granolah:
Nothing changes.

Super Hero:
No Piccolo, but Gohan should be way stronger here so I don't think there is much of a problem.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Wrigglything » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:52 am

Wow, thanks for the reply. Never thought of it that way, actually, I guess I'm so used to the Dragon Team's more brazen approach. Then again, if I had magical wish granting balls on my side, I'd be a bit more willing to take chances and risks myself.

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:00 pm

What if Kakarot became Son Goku without having to fall off of a Cliff?

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Re: The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:52 am

After being nearly killed by bebei GT piccolo gathers the regular Dragonballs and wishes for a potential unlock and orange.

What happens next.

Piccolo is now aware of bebeis body jumping ability after seeing him jump from goten to Gohan
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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