How do you rank these 4 fighters?

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miguelnuva1
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How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:51 pm

Me brother and are were talking and we were tying to figure out who is the weakest and strongest between these fights.

SSJ Goku(Namek)
SSJ Future Vegeta(vs Andriods)
SSJ Future Gohan(Two Arms)
Mecha Frieza 100%

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Konig » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:57 pm

1. SSJ Future Gohan
2. Mecha Freeza
3. SSJ Goku (Namek)
4. SSJ Vegeta (vs Androids)

Not so sure about the last 2, though, as we don't have much info on Future Vegeta's power.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:15 pm

Konig wrote:1. SSJ Future Gohan
2. Mecha Freeza
3. SSJ Goku (Namek)
4. SSJ Vegeta (vs Androids)

Not so sure about the last 2, though, as we don't have much info on Future Vegeta's power.
This is two armed Gohan that lost to less than Half 17, still have have him that high?

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:25 pm

From weakest to strongest:

4. Mecha Frieza - He may have gotten stronger, but I still think a SSJ edges out.
3. SSJ Goku (Namek) - He's an untrained SSJ.
2. SSJ Future Vegeta - Present Vegeta didn't really train to beat androids, but to become a SSJ and surpass Kakarot. Even though it's implied he's stronger than his future counterpart, I don't think it's by much because they achieved their goal for the same reason. That considered, Vegeta was downright stated to be stronger than SSJ Goku (and thus, SSJ Trunks).
1. SSJ Future Gohan - Not only does he have more experience than the above as a SSJ, but he's fought against the androids multiple times and lived to tell the tale.
miguelnuva1 wrote:
Konig wrote:1. SSJ Future Gohan
2. Mecha Freeza
3. SSJ Goku (Namek)
4. SSJ Vegeta (vs Androids)

Not so sure about the last 2, though, as we don't have much info on Future Vegeta's power.
This is two armed Gohan that lost to less than Half 17, still have have him that high?
Same dude that could kill everyone else here with his hands tied behind his back. The only debatable one would be SSJ Future Vegeta.
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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Konig » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:31 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:
Konig wrote:1. SSJ Future Gohan
2. Mecha Freeza
3. SSJ Goku (Namek)
4. SSJ Vegeta (vs Androids)

Not so sure about the last 2, though, as we don't have much info on Future Vegeta's power.
This is two armed Gohan that lost to less than Half 17, still have have him that high?
He had a very balanced fight against 17, even managing to gain the upper hand at one point, before 18's interference and Future Trunks' "help". And 17 could easily beat Mecha Freeza, SSJ Goku (Namek) and SSJ Future Vegeta. So, yes, I still think he deserves first place.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Konig wrote: He had a very balanced fight against 17, even managing to gain the upper hand at one point, before 18's interference and Future Trunks' "help". And 17 could easily beat Mecha Freeza, SSJ Goku (Namek) and SSJ Future Vegeta. So, yes, I still think he deserves first place.
That's only how the anime special depicted Gohan. In the manga, Gohan lost his arm in a battle with #17 where he wasn't even half as strong as #17 was, and even after training, it seems quite likely that #17 took Gohan out by himself, with #18 there just as a spectator.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:36 pm

Here's what I was rolling with not trying to turn this to a power level think but putting numbers just to give a rough idea of my lower to higher.

SSJ Goku Namek: weakest Super Saiyan but beats Frieza= 150.

Mecha Frieza: Either right under SSJ Goku or right over him= 148 at lowest/ 160 at highest.

SSJ Future Vegeta: I believe Goku's death affected him to where he got SSJ and stopped training: 152.5 lowest/165 highest.

SSJ Two arm Gohan: Could be weaker than Goku but should at least equal Vegeta: 145 at lowest/ 175 at highest.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Konig » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:39 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:
Konig wrote: He had a very balanced fight against 17, even managing to gain the upper hand at one point, before 18's interference and Future Trunks' "help". And 17 could easily beat Mecha Freeza, SSJ Goku (Namek) and SSJ Future Vegeta. So, yes, I still think he deserves first place.
That's only how the anime special depicted Gohan. In the manga, Gohan lost his arm in a battle with #17 where he wasn't even half as strong as #17 was, and even after training, it seems quite likely that #17 took Gohan out by himself, with #18 there just as a spectator.
Oh, sorry then. I ranked them by their anime depictions.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:10 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:1. SSJ Future Gohan - Not only does he have more experience than the above as a SSJ, but he's fought against the androids multiple times and lived to tell the tale.
So did Trunks, who could handle them both at the same time, by his own admission. Yet Gohan was defeated by #17 alone and was implied he got stomped by #17 when he had only used half of his maximum power.

Gohan is probably the weakest one here, I'm doubting he'd beat SS Goku. He'd probably beat Mecha Freeza, though, and this is only because SSs have been characterized as superior to Freeza, and he wouldn't fight the cyborgs knowing he's weaker than someone like Freeza.

So,

1 - SS Vegeta
2 - SS Goku
3 - SS F. Gohan
4 - Mecha Freeza

Trunks would be second, if he were in this ranking.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:25 am

Yeah, I was using the anime too. I forget this special is even in the manga...>.>
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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Super Vegetto » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:41 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:Me brother and are were talking and we were tying to figure out who is the weakest and strongest between these fights.

SSJ Goku(Namek)
SSJ Future Vegeta(vs Andriods)
SSJ Future Gohan(Two Arms)
Mecha Freeza 100%
1. SSJ Future Vegeta
2. SSJ Future Gohan
3. Mecha Freeza
4. SSJ Goku

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by manwolf » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:03 am

4. SSJ Goku (Namek): The weakest supersaiyan in the series, maybe he can be stronger that mecha Frieza but I don't that Frieza is so stupid to go to a losing fight.
3. Mecha Frieza: A little bit stronger that Goku but the difference is minimum, Frieza don't train only became a cyborg.
2. SSJ future Vegeta: I think that Future Vegeta is weaker that Present Vegeta because he don't think that androids are coming.
1. SSJ future Gohan: He fight with the androids for a lot of years and survive, yeah definitely the stronger between the 4.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Rocketman » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:15 am

IIRC, there's nothing in the manga that says Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when the androids arrived.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Super Vegetto » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:20 am

Rocketman wrote:IIRC, there's nothing in the manga that says Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when the androids arrived.
Trunks does have SSJ before Gohan dies, so we can assume that he got SSJ genes from Vegeta...
Last edited by Super Vegetto on Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:21 am

Rocketman wrote:IIRC, there's nothing in the manga that says Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when the androids arrived.
There isn't. Only the anime supports that. I personally believe he wasn't.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:16 am

Super Vegetto wrote:
Rocketman wrote:IIRC, there's nothing in the manga that says Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when the androids arrived.
Trunks does have SSJ before Gohan dies, so we can assume that he got SSJ genes from Vegeta...
That's assuming SS genes is a thing.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Konig » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:59 pm

I don't see how Mecha Freeza can be below SSJ Goku (Namek). He was seeking for revenge on those who defeated him, especially Goku, so I don't believe he would be stupid enough to seek his revenge if he weren't at least on the same level as the person who defeated him.

About SSJ Future Vegeta, I think the is below Namek Saga Goku more for psychological reasons than for power itself. He is, indeed, stronger than Goku during the Namek arc, however, since Future Goku died, Future Vegeta became very upset, basically loosing the main objective he had to keep training and getting stronger (to beat his rival Goku). Therefore, I think that a motivated SSJ Goku (namek) could beat a demotivated SSJ Future Vegeta, even though the last is slightly stronger.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Pantalones » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:15 pm

I can't really imagine Mecha-Freeza being stronger than Goku was on Namek, regardless of how confident he was in his ability to win. I don't think he fully grasped how far ahead of him Goku was at the time, especially after his 100% form's strain started to weaken him... if he had, he would've thought to train for a while before heading to Earth rather than just getting his body fixed up and then bringing Dad along to attack the planet right away. So I'd say Freeza is probably the weakest on the list. Maybe his 100% is not so far off from where Goku was on Namek after being rebuilt and powered-up, but I'd still say he's weaker. We do know that in Trunks' future post-Yardrat Goku managed to beat Freeza and his dad on his own, presumably even easier than Trunks did considering that we know Goku was stronger than Trunks at this point, which makes it seem pretty unlikely that Freeza became that much stronger. Like maybe he powered up from his regular 120,000,000 to 140,000,000 or something, but I doubt he got any stronger than that.

Next up would be... well, Goku on Namek. We know Future Gohan should be stronger because Gohan hit levels above 3 million even in his base form (due to rage boosts) during the Freeza battle, so training and fighting in the future should've probably brought at least that much power to the surface as his new "base" power. Future Vegeta should also be stronger than Goku was on Namek, since we know he was in the high 2-millions range in base form on Namek and probably kept training at least up until the point where Goku died. Goku died earlier in Trunks' timeline, though, and on top of that nobody knew the Androids were coming so there was no "big fight incoming" training going on -- so he probably only slightly surpassed the level Goku was at on Namek.

So to put it in numbers...

100% Mecha-Freeza -- 140 or so
Namek SSj Goku -- 150
Future SSj Vegeta -- at least 150, probably a little higher
Future SSj Gohan -- around 180? This may be slightly too high for "before losing an arm" Gohan, though... I'm going off of Gohan hitting 3.6 million in a rage moment vs. Freeza, but searching around a bit I can't actually find a source for that number so I'm not sure where it came from.

Just above the range of these four would be Gohan in his final fight vs. #17, and then Trunks when he first came back to kill Freeza and warn about the Androids (he's supposed to be "not that much stronger than Gohan was before he died," and we know he's also weaker than post-Yardrat Goku... so I'll put him just barely above the level future Gohan maxed out at), and then with a decent-sized gap after Trunks, post-Yardrat Goku. Looks like Goku at the very least would be pushing into the 200 millions range already at this point... possibly Trunks and maybe even one-arm Gohan on the low end of the 200s range too, but post-Yardrat Goku pretty much has to be. Which would put the future Androids at around 400 when using their full power (assuming that Gohan in his final confrontation with them was actually able to handle half-strength #17 pretty well, but got killed right away once #17 revealed his full power) and the present Androids even higher.

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by Hitiro » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:31 pm

Konig wrote:I don't see how Mecha Freeza can be below SSJ Goku (Namek). He was seeking for revenge on those who defeated him, especially Goku, so I don't believe he would be stupid enough to seek his revenge if he weren't at least on the same level as the person who defeated him.

About SSJ Future Vegeta, I think the is below Namek Saga Goku more for psychological reasons than for power itself. He is, indeed, stronger than Goku during the Namek arc, however, since Future Goku died, Future Vegeta became very upset, basically loosing the main objective he had to keep training and getting stronger (to beat his rival Goku). Therefore, I think that a motivated SSJ Goku (namek) could beat a demotivated SSJ Future Vegeta, even though the last is slightly stronger.
Freeza powered up but how is he supposed to know how much power is needed to beat a SSJ Goku who is uninjured? Even assuming Goku magically gained all of his strength back when he turned SSJ, Freeza has no way of gauging his previous strength against his current strength or against SSJ Goku's strength because he can't sense Ki. IIRC Goku said all he did on Yardat was learn the Yadratian teleport as it was a hard thing to learn and spent all of his time doing that. So SSJ Goku(Namek) shouldn't be any different from the SSJ Goku(Post-Yardrat).

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Re: How do you rank these 4 fighters?

Post by supercat » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:29 pm

1. SSJ Gohan
2. SSJ Goku
3. SSJ Vegeta
4. Mecha Frieza

I feel #2 and #3 could honestly go either way.

While we have no solid information on the kind of power Future Vegeta had, we can make some educated guesses.

We know that Vegeta (On Namek) was a good amount below Base Goku (against Frieza) but likely a decent amount above Third Form Frieza. During his fight with the tyrant, I'd say the prince was somewhere in the neighborhood of ~2,300,000. Now, assuming his base power stayed exactly where it was on Namek, his SSJ form would at the least be 115,000,000. From what we know about Vegeta, and his quest for power, I'd say it's a lot more plausible to assume that the determined warrior continued some form of training. Whether there was intensity behind his regimen or not, I'm inclined to believe that he reached 2,800,000 - 3,200,000 shortly before he transformed into a Super Saiyan . Going with this theory, the prince would be proudly sporting a battle power of 140,000,000 on the exceptionally low end and 160,000,000 on the slightly higher end of that spectrum. In fact, even the high end of that range is with the assumption that Vegeta's training was incredibly light. I have no qualms about putting his base power at 3,400,000 and his Super Saiyan at 170,000,000.

As for SSJ Future Trunks, I feel comfortable placing him somewhere in the ball park of 175,000,000.

I've always taken Frieza's boast with a grain of salt. Without a way of sensing energy, the tyrant's assessment of power is likely another one of his empty gloats. Generously speaking, I'd say 140,000,000 is probably the highest level of power he's had the benefit of obtaining from his mechanical enhancements.

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