Why do people hold Ultimate Gohan or Gotenks so highly?

[khalildh]

This is a post I wrote in October. It seems like it might be relevant for this discussion.

In order to understand the Boo saga one must first realize that up until Goku gains his life back he does not want to use SSJ3 or be the world's savior again.

Goku first does not want to fight Majin Boo and says he has a fusion technique to teach. Mind you Goku doesn't even suggest Goten and Trunks, that is Mr. Popo. Goku then says he will stall so they can learn the technique. Goku doesn't want to win because he knows one day a stronger threat may arise.

The next time we see Goku on earth is when Super Boo has absorbed earth's hope Gotenks and is about to destroy earth's hope number 2 Gohan. This is the next time we see SSJ3.

So far there is an example set of Goku only using SSJ3 in dire situations. The first one where stalling and not finishing the threat is best for the potential future, and the next time where everyone else on the planet is already dead and the Earth's last hope is about to die. Goku isn't strong enough to defeat this threat, but it does help him.

The next time we see Goku is when he is with Vegeta, and the one thing Goku does not want to do is mess with Vegeta's pride. That is why all throughout there fight Goku does not even hint at a new form. Even still while facing the dire outcome of dieing against Super Boo, Goku still does not want to use SSJ3. Goku says they will find another way to win. He does not want to have to use SSJ3 to win because he thinks it is unfair.

Goku only again decides to use SSJ3 as another last resort when both Gotenks and Gohan, the earth's potential saviors are dead.

tldr;

As you can see the Boo saga is really about how Goku, the word's hero, no longer feels responsible for the world and must make tough and seemingly unorthodox decisions in order to get the next generation ready for a world without him. However it all back fires when he must come to the realization that he is the only one capable of saving the day.

Pure Boo > Evil Boo > Majin Boo

First Goku does not want to be the savior.
Then Goku does not want to have to use SSJ3 in front of Vegeta.
Finally Goku has no other options and must save the day.

The story is really simple when you look at it that way, and the narration fits perfectly in line with this.

[Taskmaster]

And Oddly enough I know of no statement saying Gohan is stronger than Goku, I am aware that Vegeta believes (and Goku confirms) that he could beat Buu.

Gohan states he can beat Evil Boo. Goku states he would lose to Evil Boo. Vegeta, and Goku, state that Goku could beat Pure Boo. Therefore we have this:

Gohan > Evil Boo

Evil Boo > Goku

Goku > Pure Boo

Resulting in:

Gohan > Evil Boo > Goku > Pure Boo

I guess you forgot the three statements that stated that Gohan (included in everyone else) Can beat buu and 'No one but Goku' could.

So we have Goku > Kid Buu > Gohan.

I will also point out these statements are more recent, never contradicted (in the way Goku's comments about Evil Buu are by this newer Buu)

Goku also sates that believes it was Vegeta's plan to have Gohan and Gotenks fight Buu, which Vegeta dismisses, afterwards it's stated 2 times that no one could beat Buu.

Vegeta dismisses using Gohan and Gotenks because "it is time the Earthlings saved themselves for once." < His words.

That's not what he states. Goku asks him if his plan is to bring the boys to fight Buu (and who knows, Goku would probably have shot it down for being a dumb idea) And Vegeta's response is "No."

And no, Vegeta never says no one could beat Boo. He says the only one who can beat Boo right now is Goku. Which should go without saying. How is a dead Gohan and dead Gotenks supposed to beat Boo?

Actually Vegeta says it twice and Goku says once. Vegeta says it when Goku is fighting Buu, then Goku states them (everyone there) and everyone else would be done in if they didn't defeat Buu. Vegeta then says for a second time (and the third time it was mentioned) that If Buu comes back, it will be the end of the universe. As you and I know, Gohan is in that universe and no comment is made at any point to indicate that Gohan wasn't included in that.

Ahh, so at no time would I not consider inviting my friend back to kick this guys ass instead of bringing in every stranger from around the bar to do it for me?

What? If you are on about Vegeta not bringing Gohan or Gotenks to fight he explained his reason. I don't see why you are debating against what he actually said. His reason was clearly stated. Now if he said nothing then you're entitled to this opinion. But Vegeta clearly states to us that it is time the Earthlings saved themselves for a change. There is no reason to assume it means anything other than what he said. Given the personality of Vegeta if it were the case that Gohan and Gotenks were too weak to fight Pure Boo he would have openly said it.

Given the personality of wha..of who? Sounds like pure speculation sir, because he openly said "NO ONE BUT YOU CAN FIGHT HIM" along with the two other times I mentioned above. I don't know how or why you will try to twist a statement to mean something it obviously doesn't as per you " I don't see why you are debating against what he actually said. "

[Darkprince410]

That's not what he states. Goku asks him if his plan is to bring the boys to fight Buu (and who knows, Goku would probably have shot it down for being a dumb idea) And Vegeta's response is "No."

After he tells him no and tells him to get ready for the Genki Dama, this is what Vegeta said.

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P8.3-4
Context: after Vegeta tells Goku to make a Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey! So it was the Genki-Dama you were thinking of!? It-it’s no use! Against Boo, no matter how much we gathered little bits of genki from all the Earthlings…”
Vegeta: “I told you, right? That those guys on Earth should take responsibility every now and then…! It won’t be just little bit. We’ll gather ki from them right up to their limits!”

So yes, he does specifically state that the people of the Earth need to take responsibility for protecting themselves for once. If he had thought bringing Gotenks and Gohan to fight Buu was a bad idea, he wouldn't have spared Goku's feelings and would have most certainly berated him on the spot for it. No. He simply tells Goku the reason he wants the Genki Dama to be used.

Actually Vegeta says it twice and Goku says once. Vegeta says it when Goku is fighting Buu, then Goku states them (everyone there) and everyone else would be done in if they didn't defeat Buu. Vegeta then says for a second time (and the third time it was mentioned) that If Buu comes back, it will be the end of the universe. As you and I know, Gohan is in that universe and no comment is made at any point to indicate that Gohan wasn't included in that.

Of the three times:

Vegeta's first time: Gohan was dead and there was no indication that he'd be able to fight at any point when that was mentioned. Therefore, only Goku and Vegeta were able to fight at all.

Vegeta's second time: He specifically indicates that events might play out differently this time around to where the Earth might actually be doomed if Buu appears again. He's simply saying that, if Buu should ever emerge again, events may play out to where everyone dies (essentially he's assuming the worst case scenario on the matter). Likewise, since he doesn't make any kind of specification as to how this would happen, Vegeta can very well simply be suggesting that Buu drops a planet buster the moment he forms again.

Goku's time: Same as Vegeta's first statement. Gohan and the boys are dead, thus completely out of the picture.

You keep acting like Enma could, within a few minutes of them dying, instantly just rush them through judgment (when there are most certainly countless millions of the Earth's inhabitants ahead of him that he's still judging), give them bodies (since they would need to be given new bodies like Chaozu did, since their living ones were destroyed when they died), and then transported up to Kaioushin's planet. The battle on Kaioushin's planet wasn't like hours or so after the Earth was destroyed, where Enma may have gotten to them by then...It was literally just a couple minutes after.

[Hitiro]

I guess you forgot the three statements that stated that Gohan (included in everyone else) Can beat buu and 'No one but Goku' could.

Again. Gohan was dead in the situations these statements were made in. So this is void. How can someone who currently can't be used supposed to beat someone else?

I will also point out these statements are more recent, never contradicted (in the way Goku's comments about Evil Buu are by this newer Buu)

I have no idea what you are getting at here. Could you please re-phrase it?

That's not what he states. Goku asks him if his plan is to bring the boys to fight Buu (and who knows, Goku would probably have shot it down for being a dumb idea) And Vegeta's response is "No."

It is what he states, even before Goku even asks him about bringing Gohan and Gotenks:

"Vegeta: Kakkarot... How many times have you saved the Earth...?"
Goku: "...I dunno... A bunch of times... Wh-what's this about...?"
Vegeta: "Once in a while... The people of Earth should do their share of the work."

And a second time after he dismissed Goku's question.

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P8.3-4
Context: after Vegeta tells Goku to make a Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey! So it was the Genki-Dama you were thinking of!? It-it’s no use! Against Boo, no matter how much we gathered little bits of genki from all the Earthlings…”
Vegeta: “I told you, right? That those guys on Earth should take responsibility every now and then…! It won’t be just little bit. We’ll gather ki from them right up to their limits!”

You're saying we're making assumptions when you're making the biggest one here just because he says no to Goku about using the kids. When he gives his reason twice.

Actually Vegeta says it twice and Goku says once. Vegeta says it when Goku is fighting Buu, then Goku states them (everyone there) and everyone else would be done in if they didn't defeat Buu. Vegeta then says for a second time (and the third time it was mentioned) that If Buu comes back, it will be the end of the universe. As you and I know, Gohan is in that universe and no comment is made at any point to indicate that Gohan wasn't included in that.

Let me break it down for you:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

This comment was made before Gohan and the kids were alive. So it isn't applicable. Can't have two people who can't battle Boo included in this statement.

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”
Note: it's also possible that by "that terrible Boo", Vegeta is referring to Pure Evil or Evil Boo.

As Herms states in this comment Vegeta could be referring to either Boo. But let us pretend that it is talking about Pure(Kid) Boo here. What Vegeta says is it "might" really mean the end of the world. This is a possibility, not a certainty. Just like it is certainly possible Gohan and Gotenks could die when this new Boo is created. Don't forget the first time Pure Boo was created he blew up Earth. As you have seen in Fukkatsu no F, even a Saiyan with Godly power can't survive in space.

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

For the third and final comment that you believe implies Gohan is weaker than Pure Boo. Goku says here that if Mr. Boo and Mr. Satan hadn't been around then they and everyone else would have been done in. This is not including Gohan. Because at the time Mr. Boo and Mr. Satan helped out Gohan was not alive. If Mr. Boo and Mr. Satan weren't there Vegeta would have been killed and Gohan plus the kids never would have been wished back. Then Pure Boo would have killed Goku because Goku was out of stamina. Then Pure Boo would have killed the rest of the people in the universe. Goku also says "if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again." Surely if Goku is the only one who can beat Pure Boo then the worst case scenario would be his death. This line would only make sense if he was talking about Gohan and the kids. As the worse case scenario would be if the two strongest characters that can definitely beat Boo were killed and Goku had to fight himself.

Given the personality of wha..of who? Sounds like pure speculation sir, because he openly said "NO ONE BUT YOU CAN FIGHT HIM" along with the two other times I mentioned above. I don't know how or why you will try to twist a statement to mean something it obviously doesn't as per you " I don't see why you are debating against what he actually said. "

This isn't speculation. Are you forgetting that Vegeta literally called Gohan weak several times during the Boo arc?

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

So no, it really isn't speculation to say that Vegeta would have just openly stated that they were no match for Boo.

[NeoKING]

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

So no, it really isn't speculation to say that Vegeta would have just openly stated that they were no match for Boo.[/quote]

Wow, I had no idea Vegeta kept bringing it up so much. You would've thought he'd volunteer to train Gohan.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Goku to any form of Evil Boo : We can't beat this Boo without fusion
Goku to Pure Boo : We did it! this we we might be able to manage something.
Goku to Pure boo : These potara just ain't suited for us and besides, Boo isn't merged anymore either.
Goku to Pure Boo : I can wipe this Boo out if I gather my Ki for a minute

Goku wouldn't bring Gohan and Gotenks if he knew they at the very least had no chance of winning. Think back to Cell games when he didn't want anybody but Gohan to face Cell. We can use this logic with Pure Boo. He is okay with Gohan/Gotenks going at him. That should say it all seeing as how he is a fighting genius. But then again, Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

Ahh, fuck it! Boo saga was terribly written. Thanks Toriyama and Fuyuto Takeda.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

Vegeta probably means Super Saiyan Goku combined with Super Genkidama. That could keep the original powerscale unscathed.

[Hitiro]

But then again, Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

We don't know what criteria Vegeta has established for Goku being #1. #1 in what? Fighting? Being the best full-blooded Saiyan? Being the best dad? Vegeta's #1 statement may only be referring to the him and Goku for all we know. There are so many ways we can take what he means by #1. Certainly Goku is the best fighter even including Gohan and Gotenks. #1 doesn't have to mean strength, which he would lose out to both Gohan and Gotenks.

[Darkprince410]

But then again, Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

In at least one of those occasions, he specifically states that he considers Goku #1 because he defeated Ma-jin Buu, saying something along the lines of "Because he defeated Ma-jin Buu, there's no doubt that he is #1". This instance of #1 cannot be based on Goku's strength though, since Goku used the Genki Dama to destroy Buu rather than his own power. As such, his #1 there, and the #1 he mentions throughout all of Super, could simply be related to Goku beating the one individual that was, overall, the strongest villain they had ever faced, Ma-jin Buu (not specific forms or anything, just that Buu was the strongest enemy they had ever faced).

[Taskmaster]

But then again, Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

We don't know what criteria Vegeta has established for Goku being #1. #1 in what? Fighting? Being the best full-blooded Saiyan? Being the best dad? Vegeta's #1 statement may only be referring to the him and Goku for all we know. There are so many ways we can take what he means by #1. Certainly Goku is the best fighter even including Gohan and Gotenks. #1 doesn't have to mean strength, which he would lose out to both Gohan and Gotenks.

Yeah, and until something indicates he means that in a manner other than how it's represented throughout the series (IE in terms of power) we can safely assume he mean power. Of course, you'll want to over analyze and conspire on grounds it doesn't fit your version of the story.

[Darkprince410]

Yeah, and until something indicates he means that in a manner other than how it's represented throughout the series (IE in terms of power) we can safely assume he mean power. Of course, you'll want to over analyze and conspire on grounds it doesn't fit your version of the story.

His own dialogue though establishes he was meaning something other than strength when he referred to Goku as #1. Right off the bat, he says that because Goku beat Buu, there's no doubt he's #1, when Goku used the Genki Dama to defeat Buu (which wasn't his own power). So clearly he was meaning something other than strength.

Likewise, given that when he said it the first time, when Goku was fighting Buu, the dialogue was in regards to his reasons for fighting (and not his strength) you have two situations of him saying that Goku is #1 and it not being about power.

[Hitiro]

But then again, Vegeta keeps referring to Goku as #1 even after Gohan/Gotenks are brought back.

We don't know what criteria Vegeta has established for Goku being #1. #1 in what? Fighting? Being the best full-blooded Saiyan? Being the best dad? Vegeta's #1 statement may only be referring to the him and Goku for all we know. There are so many ways we can take what he means by #1. Certainly Goku is the best fighter even including Gohan and Gotenks. #1 doesn't have to mean strength, which he would lose out to both Gohan and Gotenks.

Yeah, and until something indicates he means that in a manner other than how it's represented throughout the series (IE in terms of power) we can safely assume he mean power. Of course, you'll want to over analyze and conspire on grounds it doesn't fit your version of the story.

It requires no over-analysing. Vegeta doesn't specify in what regard Goku is superior. As Darkprince pointed out Goku only one the fight against Boo because he used the Genki Dama. So why would Vegeta stating Goku is #1 mean that he is the best in terms of power? Because he didn't actually win with his power.

[Taskmaster]

I guess we will dance around a blatant statement (though it's context being completely clear) forever. Which reminds me, it's quite obvious Goku was talking about being Super Saiyjin 1s when he spoke about fighting Evil Buu. He doesn't say he's taking in SSJ3 into account, considering how vaugue the context is in that situation.

[Taskmaster]

Yeah, and until something indicates he means that in a manner other than how it's represented throughout the series (IE in terms of power) we can safely assume he mean power. Of course, you'll want to over analyze and conspire on grounds it doesn't fit your version of the story.

It requires no over-analysing. Vegeta doesn't specify in what regard Goku is superior. As Darkprince pointed out Goku only one the fight against Boo because he used the Genki Dama. So why would Vegeta stating Goku is #1 mean that he is the best in terms of power? Because he didn't actually win with his power.[/quote]

So, Vegeta talking about Goku beating Pure Buu in Z wasn't about Power. Vegeta calling Goku #1 wasn't about power, and now we have this statement talking about Goku training to become stronger and stating yet again that he's #1 is supposedly not about power?

Guys, there comes a time to admit that your position is weak/faltering/no existent. This is exactly that moment.

[MisterGuyMan]

That's the thing though. With Vegeta dead, Buu would instantly jump over to the weakened Goku (who isn't even able to hold a charge in Ssj3) and most certainly finish him off, then just start using the Kai Kai ability to take him to any random part of the universe he wants so he could start blowing it up. Hell, given the fact that he has the Kai Kai, he could go to the check-in station and destroy it before Gohan and the others are given their bodies (since their bodies were destroyed in the living world, they would need bodies created for them at the check-in station to have them in the afterlife, as seen with Chaozu in the Saiya-jin Saga).

Simply put, if Mr. Satan and Mr. Buu didn't step in when they did, Vegeta would have most certainly been just the first of Buu's casualties.

Buu followed Kibito Kai to his planet. He would have no idea where the check-in station is or that it even exists. So in this scenario Vegeta slides into oblivion but very shortly dead Mystic Gohan, Dead Gotenks and dead SS3 Goku are popping in eventually. SS3 Gotenks and SS3 Goku in particular would also benefit from a massive upgrade in power since SS3 doesn't drain a nonliving body. Either way, Kid Buu would have no chance and the claim that everyone would have died cannot be true.

Both the South Kaioushin and the Dai Kaioushin would have been within Mr. Buu, and from the moment Mr. Buu's cocoon was ripped down by Vegeta, Buu was no longer receiving a supply of ki from them. As we've seen before with Gotenks Buu's reversion to Piccolo Buu, even when the source within him changes immediately, it still takes Buu some time to change accordingly, as if he's needing to burn off the remainder of their influence within his body. So when he reverted from Evil Buu to Pure Buu, he burned through all the influence of the Dai Kaioushin first, causing him to revert to South Kaioushin Buu (and thus giving him the stated power increase). Then, he burned through the rest of South Kaioushin's influence, resulting in his power dropping back down as he reverted entirely into Pure Buu.

The last we see of South Kaio Shin's power was during the Buff Buu phase so saying the power was lost after Fat Buu was ripped away is actually provably wrong since we're told and shown it's still there afterward. We also have that scene where Fat Buu affects Kid Buu enough to prevent him from harming Mr. Satan to show that fat Buu was still affecting Kid Buu. As for the transitions we see that it's always been immediate. Buu never has power from people that aren't absorbed. Gohan's removal resulted in an immediate reversion to Buucolo. Piccolo's removal reverts Buu into plan Super Buu immediately too. There was no transition period. I checked the manga and in one panel you see Buutenks. Then in the next you see Buucolo. There's no real transition there either. One moment he had Gotenks' power. Then he lost it in the next panel.

His own dialogue though establishes he was meaning something other than strength when he referred to Goku as #1. Right off the bat, he says that because Goku beat Buu, there's no doubt he's #1, when Goku used the Genki Dama to defeat Buu (which wasn't his own power). So clearly he was meaning something other than strength.

Likewise, given that when he said it the first time, when Goku was fighting Buu, the dialogue was in regards to his reasons for fighting (and not his strength) you have two situations of him saying that Goku is #1 and it not being about power.

Goku was #1 AFTER he beat Kid Buu not BECAUSE he beat him. This obviously isn't like a linear boxing championship belt where beating Kid Buu grants Goku some title. Moreover, Vegeta said Goku was #1 then said he would train to surpass him. So how does training allow Vegeta's reasons for fighting surpass Goku's reasons? How does that follow? Moreover Goku was #1 "without a doubt" which people keep ignoring. If Gohan can beat Goku senseless in a fight then there is a doubt that Goku is #1 in the universe if he's not even the best on his own planet.

[Truhan]

Yeah, I also found it strange that Boo would be burning through his absorptions slowly when it was never depicted like that before. It just goes to show that when Majin Boo's pod was taken, Evil Boo turned immediatly into another, powered up into South Kaioshin Boo, and then back. That Boo that Evil Boo turned into right after Majin Boo's pod was taken was Pure Boo. He couldn't be anyone else, not Innocent Boo nor Pure Evil Boo, but his Pure self, who powered up by tapping onto South Kaioshin's power (hence getting bulky) and then powered down (as implied) by releasing it. It's that simple.

[Taskmaster]

Yeah, I also found it strange that Boo would be burning through his absorptions slowly when it was never depicted like that before. It just goes to show that when Majin Boo's pod was taken, Evil Boo turned immediatly into another, powered up into South Kaioshin Boo, and then back. That Boo that Evil Boo turned into right after Majin Boo's pod was taken was Pure Boo. He couldn't be anyone else, not Innocent Boo nor Pure Evil Boo, but his Pure self, who powered up by tapping onto South Kaioshin's power (hence getting bulky) and then powered down (as implied) by releasing it. It's that simple.

It's not implied he powered down. Him and Vegeta are strictly talking abiut his transformation and Physical size. Even if they were (and I don't believe they are) Kibito flat out says Buu's power returned (from his previous forms)

[Truhan]

I'm not talking to you, Taskmaster. I'm merely using MisterGuyMan's logic where one panel appearing right after another represents the time lapse of a transformation or power up. Then let's see:
- Evil (Super) Boo took time when transforming from his normal self to his Gotenks absorbed self. Power up confirmed;
- Evil (Super) Boo took no time when detransforming from his Gohan absorbed self to his Piccolo absorbed self. Power down confirmed;
- Pure (Kid) Boo took time powering up to his South Kaioshin absorbed self. Power up confirmed;
- Pure (Kid) Boo with South Kaioshin absorbed took no time when detransforming into Pure (Kid) Boo. What does this confirm then? (Power down).

I mean, don't feed this discussion anymore.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku was #1 AFTER he beat Kid Buu not BECAUSE he beat him. This obviously isn't like a linear boxing championship belt where beating Kid Buu grants Goku some title. Moreover, Vegeta said Goku was #1 then said he would train to surpass him. So how does training allow Vegeta's reasons for fighting surpass Goku's reasons? How does that follow? Moreover Goku was #1 "without a doubt" which people keep ignoring. If Gohan can beat Goku senseless in a fight then there is a doubt that Goku is #1 in the universe if he's not even the best on his own planet.

Valid points. I guess I should wait until Beerus comments something in regards to Gohan and Gotenks. Something like "this level surpass even Son Goku's that I fought earlier".

[Truhan]

We're forgetting that Akira Toriyama didn't speak as himself (or as the narrator) when Vegeta thought that there should be no doubt that Goku is #1. "To think that something should" means to be less than certain, as "should be" is weaker than "must be", when both are weaker than "is". Vegeta thought something as the character that he was in his context, which means that there is doubt for the reader, when the reader knows that Goku can't possibly be #1 with Beerus and Whis already introduced.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... okuno1.jpg

This could still mean that Gohan was taken into consideration, but we've never seen him power up after being absorbed, to be honest, and Gotenks never came into existence again. Furthermore, Vegeta was surprised that Boo had killed and absorbed everyone, creating a time period for when he was still watching things. He witnessed fusion, SSJ3 Goku and Pure Evil Boo absorbing Innocent Boo to become Evil Boo. There's nothing else confirmed, but there's always his surprise.