More power levels discussion, huzzah.
But on a more serious note, what do you suppose counts as an actual 'advantage' as far as power levels go?
We KNOW that the numbers are down in both the manga and Daiz, I don't have to repeat that. There is no universal agreement on what exact percentage will determine who has the advantage or who will win so I'm not going to bother with that.
Instead I'd like to wonder that rather than a fighter being stuck at a specific number(say 10,000) and not being able to display more than their number can go(again 10,000), what if it actually counts on how much effort a fighter puts out therefore the determination is whoever decides to really go all out? Like a fighter with 10,000 MIGHT be able to exceed it temporarily to 10,500 if he gave it all he has?
We know Dodoria vs Vegeta at first wasn't an utter curbstomp in Vegeta's favor because he was struggling a bit to hold Dodoria in place but then after telling Vegeta the revelation of his home planet's demise, Vegeta then proceeds to blast Dodoria and incinerates him the same way he kills Cui.
Do you suppose that Dodoria simply gave up on his effort so his total power level shrunk while because Vegeta went all out it equated to Vegeta >> Dodoria rather than simply Vegeta slightly > Dodoria? Do you think if Dodoria proceeded to brace the blast with all his might that he would be able to at least survive heavily injured instead of being disintegrated?
What do you think?
Power Levels & Effort
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theherodjl
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Power Levels & Effort
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Power Levels & Effort
Yuuki, which means courage in English, is a part of ki, like genki (energy) & shouki (right-mindedness), so yes, I guess it's possible that Dodoria was weakened because his courage was at really low levels. Maybe Vegeta's rage boost in BoG/Super is related to that, since unlike in Gohan's & Oob's cases, it doesn't seem to draw out dormant powers.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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theherodjl
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Re: Power Levels & Effort
Interesting, seems like courage could be a factor and might explain why Cui vs Vegeta's fight with the exact same numbers of Goku vs Vegeta's fight ended up with different outcomes. I also imagine it could be why characters who are worlds weaker than others manage to survive being attacked by such stronger fighters despite the difference being dozens to even hundreds of times greater in power levels, maybe they are as pointless as Kanzenshuu once stated for Deathbattle.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Power Levels & Effort
Other than Vegeta in BoG/Super, we haven't seen any other character becoming stronger than they normally are through intense emotions. (I'm not counting Gohan & Oob, because they are a different case), and even that was a temporary increase. When it comes to a fighter's standard full-power, battle powers do matter.theherodjl wrote:Interesting, seems like courage could be a factor and might explain why Cui vs Vegeta's fight with the exact same numbers of Goku vs Vegeta's fight ended up with different outcomes. I also imagine it could be why characters who are worlds weaker than others manage to survive being attacked by such stronger fighters despite the difference being dozens to even hundreds of times greater in power levels, maybe they are as pointless as Kanzenshuu once stated for Deathbattle.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Power Levels & Effort
Actually, the numbers were slightly different. Assuming you're referring to when Goku used Kaio x3, of course.theherodjl wrote:Interesting, seems like courage could be a factor and might explain why Cui vs Vegeta's fight with the exact same numbers of Goku vs Vegeta's fight ended up with different outcomes.
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga): 18,000 natural
Goku (Saiyan Saga, Kaioken x3): 24,000 forced and with great strain
In contrast, Cui and Vegeta's fight was:
Cui: 18,000 natural
Vegeta: 24,000 natural
I tend to think of the Cui vs Vegeta fight as a better representation of what a 33% difference looks like, since Goku had mitigating factors.
I do see your point overall, though, and it might go to explain Gohan's earliest numbers.
Gohan (Raditz): 1,400
Gohan (Raditz, minus yuuki): 1
The story presents the 1 as Gohan's normal and the 1,400 as a rage boost, but maybe it's supposed to be the other way around. The 1,400 is Gohan's normal and he just never had the mindset to stay at that level.
Then we have the Nappa fight where Gohan starts out at, what, 1,100 and gets up to around 4,000 right after Piccolo dies.
Was it 1,100 normal/4,000 rage boost? Or was it 4,000 normal/1,100 because of less yuuki?
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TheUltimateVegito
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Re: Power Levels & Effort
Besides, power level readings are known for being unreliable.
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