Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

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Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:13 pm

Beerus stated he used 10% of his power against Vegeta, meanwhile Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto, even after witnessing Raging Vegeta.

Does this mean Beerus (10%) > Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (Db Super) > Super Vegetto (Db Super) ?

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:16 pm

How easily did Beers using 10% defeat Vegeta? I haven't seen the fight yet, but did Vegeta put up a fight, or just get effortlessly beaten?

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:17 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:How easily did Beers using 10% defeat Vegeta? I haven't seen the fight yet, but did Vegeta put up a fight, or just get effortlessly beaten?
Beerus called the fight fun and the two actually fight for a few minutes, as opposed to a few seconds in Battle of Gods. However, Beerus still mucked Vegeta pretty easily, but also said he used 10% of his power.

Beerus ~ 10
Raging Vegeta ~ 6
Super Vegetto ~ 4

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:27 pm

Goku knew that Beerus wasn't using his full power on him, so he was considering if Super Veggetto could beat Beerus at full power and decided probably not. So SSJ2 Vegeta does not have to be stronger than SSJ Veggetto.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:32 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Goku knew that Beerus wasn't using his full power on him, so he was considering if Super Veggetto could beat Beerus at full power and decided probably not. So SSJ2 Vegeta does not have to be stronger than SSJ Veggetto.
Sure he does.
Raging Vegeta
~Ssj2 6

Vegetto
~Ssj 4
~SSj2 8
~Ssj3 32

Beerus
10% ~ 10
Expected ~ 40
100% ~ 100

Goku
80% ~ 48
100% ~ 60
The above is essentially what Battle of Gods tells us.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:34 pm

h0kuten wrote:[

The above is essentially what Battle of Gods tells us.
We don't see Vegeto in the movie nor the series so how can you know if he is weaker than SSJ2 Vegeta?

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by supercat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:38 pm

h0kuten wrote:Beerus stated he used 10% of his power against Vegeta, meanwhile Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto, even after witnessing Raging Vegeta.

Does this mean Beerus (10%) > Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (Db Super) > Super Vegetto (Db Super) ?
That sounds about right to me. Irregardless of who holds the edge (Vegeta or Vegetto), they shouldn't be too far off from each other. The way I see it, if Vegetto were actually stronger than Vegeta, it would only be by a notch or two (2x advantage at most) and vice versa.

That said, if we're that adamant about the mighty Potara warrior retaining his superiority over his half, we could always assume he sits a few tiers higher (20% of Beerus), as such a caliber still wouldn't be appealing enough for Goku to consider fusion.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:46 pm

supercat wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Beerus stated he used 10% of his power against Vegeta, meanwhile Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto, even after witnessing Raging Vegeta.

Does this mean Beerus (10%) > Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (Db Super) > Super Vegetto (Db Super) ?
That sounds about right to me. Irregardless of who holds the edge (Vegeta or Vegetto), they shouldn't be too far off from each other. The way I see it, if Vegetto were actually stronger than Vegeta, it would only be by a notch or two (2x advantage at most) and vice versa.

That said, if we're that adamant about the mighty Potara warrior retaining his superiority over his half, we could always assume he sits a few tiers higher (20% of Beerus), as such a caliber still wouldn't be appealing enough for Goku to consider fusion.
I think Vegetto will always be in a league above his unfused components. My feeling on the matter is that Vegetto could get up to 40% of Beerus, but there's no way to know for sure.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:48 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
supercat wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Beerus stated he used 10% of his power against Vegeta, meanwhile Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto, even after witnessing Raging Vegeta.

Does this mean Beerus (10%) > Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (Db Super) > Super Vegetto (Db Super) ?
That sounds about right to me. Irregardless of who holds the edge (Vegeta or Vegetto), they shouldn't be too far off from each other. The way I see it, if Vegetto were actually stronger than Vegeta, it would only be by a notch or two (2x advantage at most) and vice versa.

That said, if we're that adamant about the mighty Potara warrior retaining his superiority over his half, we could always assume he sits a few tiers higher (20% of Beerus), as such a caliber still wouldn't be appealing enough for Goku to consider fusion.
I think Vegetto will always be in a league above his unfused components. My feeling on the matter is that Vegetto could get up to 40% of Beerus, but there's no way to know for sure.
Goku at 80% of his SSJG power felt he could defeat his personal expectations of Beerus whom, was greatly suppressed and could already trump a Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:52 pm

h0kuten wrote: Goku at 80% of his SSJG power felt he could defeat his personal expectations of Beerus whom, was greatly suppressed and could already trump a Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
Right, none of this makes me doubt that SSJ vegetto could reach around 40% Beerus. For the record, I'd put SSJ3 Vegetto (if he could achieve it) at around 60% Beerus

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:55 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
h0kuten wrote: Goku at 80% of his SSJG power felt he could defeat his personal expectations of Beerus whom, was greatly suppressed and could already trump a Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
Right, none of this makes me doubt that SSJ vegetto could reach around 40% Beerus. For the record, I'd put SSJ3 Vegetto (if he could achieve it) at around 60% Beerus
Goku SSJG 80% > Beerus (Expected) > Vegetto Ssj3

Or numerically:

Beerus 100%: 100
Goku SSJG 100%: 60
Goku SSJG 80%: 48
Beerus Expected: 40
Vegetto Ssj3: 32-36 (This is the strongest he could possibly be)

Beerus 10%: 10
Raging Vegeta: 5-6
Super Vegetto: 4 - 4.5

There isn't any room for Vegetto be 40-60% of Beerus.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by LightBing » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:58 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Goku knew that Beerus wasn't using his full power on him, so he was considering if Super Veggetto could beat Beerus at full power and decided probably not. So SSJ2 Vegeta does not have to be stronger than SSJ Veggetto.
I think this might be what happened. I don't remember people thinking Mutated Vegeta was stronger than SSJ Vegetto when BoG aired. This might be the case of Toei changing who says what and adding lines that might be confusing. Does anyone remember at what time during the movie, Goku mentions fusion wouldn't work.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Blackstripe » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:58 pm

We don't know if Beerus was using 10% the entire fight. There is evidence to suggest otherwise.

When the fight initially starts, he lands a punch on Vegeta, who shrugs it off and retaliates. Beerus also takes utterly no damage from Vegeta's attack, including his big Galick Gun at the end.

I think when Vegeta began his barrage, Beerus was already in the process of raising his power in reaction to his punch failing. By the time Vegeta put his all into that blast, he was fully at 10% and far beyond the Saiyan Prince.

I have it like this:

Initial Beerus - 2.5%

Rage!Vegeta - 3%~

Galick Gun - 6%

It's been shown that when Vegeta wants to put his all into a blast, it's far stronger than his standing power. While they can't sense Beerus, he seems to be able to sense them, so it makes sense why he would go to 10% against that Galick Gun.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Kaboom » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:58 pm

I've still yet to be shown why merely hypothetical forms of characters should have anything to do with it.

What about Goku musing "merging with Vegeta might not be enough" instantly translates to "Vegetto would be a tiny fraction of Beerus' power even if he had and used Super Saiyan 3?" That's needlessly taking a vague supposition to the most extreme (sorta) possible conclusion. There's no reason to insist that's the case.
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Sodhi » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:02 pm

Turns out beerus never used 10% of his power to begin with. He just simply said ,"Its been a long time since I have pushed myself anywhere near 10% of what I am capble of". Keys words here are anywhere near.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by supercat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:04 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
h0kuten wrote: Goku at 80% of his SSJG power felt he could defeat his personal expectations of Beerus whom, was greatly suppressed and could already trump a Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
Right, none of this makes me doubt that SSJ vegetto could reach around 40% Beerus. For the record, I'd put SSJ3 Vegetto (if he could achieve it) at around 60% Beerus
Standing a few tiers above his unfused counterparts is certainly well within the realm of possibilities, but reaching 40% of Beerus is a tad bit high in my opinion. I think if such an outcome was even remotely possible, Goku would have strongly considered going that route. Based on his track record, a 2 - 2.5x disadvantage doesn't exactly strike me as the kind of gap he would find daunting.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:05 pm

h0kuten wrote:There isn't any room for Vegetto be 40-60% of Beerus.
I think there is. We know Goku expected Beerus to be stronger than Vegetto ( unsure if he was factoring in SSJ3). I think "expected Beerus" is more than the 50% he initially showed against SSJG Goku, they were both testing each other and warming up. So if Goku thought Beerus was, lets say, 80% of what he actually was, than that means Vegetto could easily go up to 60% Beerus and Goku still not think it would work.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:06 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
h0kuten wrote:There isn't any room for Vegetto be 40-60% of Beerus.
I think there is. We know Goku expected Beerus to be stronger than Vegetto ( unsure if he was factoring in SSJ3). I think "expected Beerus" is more than the 50% he initially showed against SSJG Goku, they were both testing each other and warming up. So if Goku thought Beerus was, lets say, 80% of what he actually was, than that means Vegetto could easily go up to 60% Beerus and Goku still not think it would work.
It wouldn't make sense if Vegetto is equal to SSJG Goku but Goku dismisses one idea for the other without any valid reasoning.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Blackstripe » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:07 pm

Sodhi wrote:Turns out beerus never used 10% of his power to begin with. He just simply said ,"Its been a long time since I have pushed myself anywhere near 10% of what I am capble of". Keys words here are anywhere near.
Really? That would make things less complicated. Herms, confirmation?

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Sodhi » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:08 pm

Blackstripe wrote:
Sodhi wrote:Turns out beerus never used 10% of his power to begin with. He just simply said ,"Its been a long time since I have pushed myself anywhere near 10% of what I am capble of". Keys words here are anywhere near.
Really? That would make things less complicated. Herms, confirmation?
Dragon team subs confirmed it. These are the subs that Herms always uses on his fact checker.

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