Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:30 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:
saunasolmu wrote:We know that Vegeta far and way surpassed Mystic Gohan, is it really so unbelievable that he could've surpassed Vegetto as well?
No way. All Vegeta did that he surpassed Goku, as Beerus mentions. That's all, and the statement of using 10% of power against him doesn't make a sense being that Vegetto was an option, but discarded immediately. That would mean that Vegetto as a SSJ3 would surpass Beerus and Whis by a large margin.
But from the strength that Beerus was using against him as Beerus trounced him as a SSJ3, which was way less 10%, Goku concluded that fusion, Fusion Dance and/or Potara, wouldn't be enough to put up a fight against Beerus. It's ridiculous, I know, but all the signs point towards; SSJ2 Rage Vegeta > Super Vegetto.

That's just how it is.
But do we realize that this Rage Vegeta must be at least 200 times stronger than regular SSJ2 himself? When did a rage boost generated such an immense increase? Even if we count Goku's transformation into SSJ1, a 200x multiplier is way too huge...
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:41 am

Low Tone G wrote:
But do we realize that this Rage Vegeta must be at least 200 times stronger than regular SSJ2 himself? When did a rage boost generated such an immense increase? Even if we count Goku's transformation into SSJ1, a 200x multiplier is way too huge...
It surely is contrary to what's considered traditional but just because it is doesn't mean that everything that's set in stone can be ignored.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:31 am

Low Tone G wrote:But do we realize that this Rage Vegeta must be at least 200 times stronger than regular SSJ2 himself? When did a rage boost generated such an immense increase? Even if we count Goku's transformation into SSJ1, a 200x multiplier is way too huge...
That's the power of character favoritism. :P

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by saunasolmu » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:44 am

You should just ignore all those "x and y times stronger" things, power levels were thrown out of the series for a reason.

Basically your doing yourself a disservice if you stick with these fan theories you've created during the last 20 years (about how power levels work and such), so much that it makes you unable to enjoy any new material that contradicts them.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:51 am

Low Tone G wrote: But do we realize that this Rage Vegeta must be at least 200 times stronger than regular SSJ2 himself? When did a rage boost generated such an immense increase? Even if we count Goku's transformation into SSJ1, a 200x multiplier is way too huge...
Gohan had a 1,307 times boost as a kid.
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by rereboy » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:52 am

The problem is that people are taking the 10% statement as if Toriyama and Toei have perfectly considered the consistency of such a line regarding the power gaps between the characters of the Buu saga and considered, consistently and mathematically, how strong Vegetto would be in Super taking all that into account and the power of RageVegeta.

I can almost guarantee that they didn't. The 10% line is simply a way to demonstrate to the viewer that Vegeta actually made Beerus try a bit since 10% is a round number that is still very low but not low enough to make the viewer think that Vegeta did very poorly.

It's almost surely just another power inconsistency that can't be explained all that well.

In short, Super's points are these:

- yes, Vegeta got a very significant power boost with his rage, surpassing Goku and the others, making Beerus use a significant bit of his power (the 10% figure is more for illustrative purposes than consistency purposes);
- yes, in Goku's opinion Vegetto wouldn't be enough (not clear if has taken into account the boost Vegeta got) and he hopes that SSJG will be enough.

I'm pretty sure that things weren't thought much more in-depth than this regarding power consistency.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Adamant » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:41 am

Sodhi wrote:Turns out beerus never used 10% of his power to begin with. He just simply said ,"Its been a long time since I have pushed myself anywhere near 10% of what I am capble of". Keys words here are anywhere near.

English isn't your first language, is it? When Beerus says "It's been a long time since I've pushed myself anywhere near10% of what I'm capable of." he does mean he's pushing himself that much at the moment.
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:18 pm

rereboy wrote:The problem is that people are taking the 10% statement as if Toriyama and Toei have perfectly considered the consistency of such a line regarding the power gaps between the characters of the Buu saga and considered, consistently and mathematically, how strong Vegetto would be in Super taking all that into account and the power of RageVegeta.

I can almost guarantee that they didn't. The 10% line is simply a way to demonstrate to the viewer that Vegeta actually made Beerus try a bit since 10% is a round number that is still very low but not low enough to make the viewer think that Vegeta did very poorly.

It's almost surely just another power inconsistency that can't be explained all that well.

In short, Super's points are these:

- yes, Vegeta got a very significant power boost with his rage, surpassing Goku and the others, making Beerus use a significant bit of his power (the 10% figure is more for illustrative purposes than consistency purposes);
- yes, in Goku's opinion Vegetto wouldn't be enough (not clear if has taken into account the boost Vegeta got) and he hopes that SSJG will be enough.

I'm pretty sure that things weren't thought much more in-depth than this regarding power consistency.
I, and most, know this. We simply like trying offer explanations based on what is provided in the episodes, and propose interesting theories to explain it.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Super Vegetto » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:58 pm

How is this even a question,,,DBSuper Super Vegetto would stomp anyone besides Beerus and upcoming God Goku,,,SSJ2 would still probably be under God tier, but as SSJ3 i could see him beating Beerus,,,after all Frieza achived same level of power as Gods in his base, so why shouldn't good old SSJ3 level be above God tier..

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by rereboy » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:04 pm

Blackstripe wrote:
I, and most, know this. We simply like trying offer explanations based on what is provided in the episodes, and propose interesting theories to explain it.
The problem is that the theories take the 10% literally and then try to adapt everything to it, instead of the theories being that, just like Trunks doesn't mean #20 and #19 when he talks to Goku despite saying specifically #20 and #19, Beerus also doesn't mean mathematically 10%, but rather a significant, yet small bit of his power.

It's not an inconsistency inside the universe, per se, but a inconsistency in the telling of the universe.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by LightBing » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:18 pm

Did anyone thought Mutated Vegeta was stronger than SSJ Vegetto in BoG? I think this is Toei, adding confusion by not thinking though their contributions. Goku's line is the same, they just exchanged Kame-Sennin for Beerus to say Vegeta surpassed Goku, and added the 10% line. They honestly trowed a bone at us, by giving a possible scale to insert everyone.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by supercat » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:18 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:You think he's THAT weak? The guy that stomped Buuhan? Vegetto isn't just the sum of Vegeta and Goku's power, being a fusion gives him a massive boost. Like I said, I'd put him (SSJ 1) at 30% at the least, and most likely around 40% of Beerus' full strength.
You talk as though Buuhan still sits in a position of significance.

Heck, by the events of FnF, he's probably a trivial fodder compared to Frieza's hypothetical second or third forms.
mikey4111 wrote:I can't see Vegeta's rage boost doing any significant damage to Buuhan, let alone completely outclass him like Vegito did. Rage boost Vegeta was just above SSJ3 Goku and Vegito was ridiculous far above SSJ3 Goku before even turning into a SSJ. So no, Vegeta didn't surpass Vegito with his rage boost.
Why not? When and where has it ever been implied that Buuhan is still a monumental source of power? As a matter of fact, his prominence had already lost a load of value when he took that beating from Vegetto back in his own arc.

Based on Goku's lack of interest in fusion and the way that entire sequence of events played out, I'm quite convinced that the raging prince stands worlds above the orange gi sporting Majin and at least on par with the once unrivaled Potara warrior.

Even from an out-of-universe standpoint, I think the whole point was to show one of the main protagonists hitting an unprecedented realm of power.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:58 pm

If Vegetto could defeat Beerus in any way whatsoever, or even had a chance, Goku could be more than willing to try it out.

Vegetto's Only Options
Spirit Bomb
Super Saiyan 3
Enraged

None of these are relevant in being capable of defeating Beerus -at least according to Goku.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:25 pm

h0kuten wrote:If Vegetto could defeat Beerus in any way whatsoever, or even had a chance, Goku could be more than willing to try it out.

Vegetto's Only Options
Spirit Bomb
Super Saiyan 3
Enraged

None of these are relevant in being capable of defeating Beerus -at least according to Goku.
It doesn't have to be "Vegetto can in no conceivable circumstance or transformation beat Beerus" it just has to be " Vegetto probably won't work; Super Saiyan God is a better option"

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:42 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
h0kuten wrote:If Vegetto could defeat Beerus in any way whatsoever, or even had a chance, Goku could be more than willing to try it out.

Vegetto's Only Options
Spirit Bomb
Super Saiyan 3
Enraged

None of these are relevant in being capable of defeating Beerus -at least according to Goku.
It doesn't have to be "Vegetto can in no conceivable circumstance or transformation beat Beerus" it just has to be " Vegetto probably won't work; Super Saiyan God is a better option"
Goku already stated, twice that Vegetto couldn't beat Beerus. He compared Vegetto's above scenario's to a version of Beerus whom only used 10% power.

Goku concluded Vegetto would still get licked.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:46 pm

h0kuten wrote:
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
h0kuten wrote:If Vegetto could defeat Beerus in any way whatsoever, or even had a chance, Goku could be more than willing to try it out.

Vegetto's Only Options
Spirit Bomb
Super Saiyan 3
Enraged

None of these are relevant in being capable of defeating Beerus -at least according to Goku.
It doesn't have to be "Vegetto can in no conceivable circumstance or transformation beat Beerus" it just has to be " Vegetto probably won't work; Super Saiyan God is a better option"
Goku already stated, twice that Vegetto couldn't beat Beerus. He compared Vegetto's above scenario's to a version of Beerus whom only used 10% power.

Goku concluded Vegetto would still get licked.
Goku didn't know about Vegeta's performance against Beerus when he made that statement, had the Rageta incident happened before he said anything by fusion I imagine he'd be singing a pretty different tune. Especially since Vegeta is still only a Super Saiyan 2. Hell if he knew about the Furious Mutation he'd probably want to to fuse with Vegeta pronto more than anything else.
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by h0kuten » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:03 pm

Goku didn't know about Vegeta's performance against Beerus when he made that statement, had the Rageta incident happened before he said anything by fusion I imagine he'd be singing a pretty different tune. Especially since Vegeta is still only a Super Saiyan 2. Hell if he knew about the Furious Mutation he'd probably want to to fuse with Vegeta pronto more than anything else.
In both Battle of Gods & Dragonball Super, Goku was watching from the sidelines and carefully examining their battle. Yet it didn't alter his conclusion regarding Vegetto.

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Sodhi » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:08 pm

Adamant wrote:
Sodhi wrote:Turns out beerus never used 10% of his power to begin with. He just simply said ,"Its been a long time since I have pushed myself anywhere near 10% of what I am capble of". Keys words here are anywhere near.

English isn't your first language, is it? When Beerus says "It's been a long time since I've pushed myself anywhere near10% of what I'm capable of." he does mean he's pushing himself that much at the moment.
Go to google and search what anywhere near means. Thank You :D

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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by Mystic Tien » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:12 pm

Raging Vegetto SSJ2.
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I really do. Why not? Anything that they do or say doesn't make any sense anyway. To quote Krillin from the last episode: "Hey, Piccolo... Are you really sure it'd still be no use, even if I joined in as well and we all went at him together?"
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Re: Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super

Post by mikey4111 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:39 pm

First off, this argument is about Rageta being stronger then Vegito. Not about if Vegito can beat Beerus. We all know he can't beat Beerus.

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