Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

[Hugo Boss]

I've suggested it before (though I wasn't the one that originally proposed this theory), but it's possible that Vegeta tapped into some latent God power. Unlike before when he raged over Trunks' death in the Cell Saga, he is now of a righteous heart. That being said, it was obviously nowhere near the level of the real thing, and seemed to fizzle out.

Yeah, I know, it's just a theory...but that's all anyone is throwing out there at this point, so I thought it begged repeating.

I like that theory too! Super Saiyan God does have some relation to the power of love and that could work as a source for Vegeta's power-up.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

Rage Vegeta being stronger than Super Vegeta is just non-sense.Akira is underpowering Beerus 10% is way too much 1.2% that's reasonable but 10 that makes Vegeta way stronger than any other character several times over.

Going by that 10% foolishness

If Vegeta and Goku both had a Power Level of 1.000.000 when they fused.

Potara Fusion Formula Y battle power Multiplied By X Battle power

1.000.000 x 1.000.000 = 1.000.000.000.000

Base Vegito Power level is 1 Trillion

At Ssj it is 50 Trillion since it is Multiplied by 50 when ssj for those who don't know.

Now if Vegeta made Beerus use 10% of his power the. He is around 200 trillion making him 4 times stronger than Vegito.

This is ridiculous because Beerus is more than 100 million years old.How can a rage Vegeta make him summon that much power?

I don't think the guide says that it is BP x BP. What it says is Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto. Which would be a standard way of saying that Vegetto is more than the sum of his parts.

But like I pointed out, the increase with the fusion is a great deal. Going just by the statements in the story the fusion dance had to be comparable to a 4x-8x boost for SSJ Gotenks to be on par with Fat Boo. We can discern that the fusion dance between Goku and Vegeta would not have been enough against Boohan because we have a statement from Boohan himself thinking it wouldn't be enough. We also have a statement from the Rou Kaioshin stating that if Goku and Gohan fused they would have enough power in base to take out Bootenks. Going by the 25% gap rule across the series and pretending that SSJ Gotenks was nowhere near as strong as Goku made him out to be and having SSJ3 Gotenks as 25% stronger than SSJ3 Goku we'd have this as a minimum:

SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ3 Gotenks: 500
Evil Boo: 500
Gohan: 625
Bootenks: 1,000
Theoretical Goku + Gohan: (1 + 625(Assuming the Rou Kaioshin boost translates to base)) * Potara Boost = 1,250+
Boohan: 1125

SSJ Vegetto: ((1+1)*14.0625)*50 = 1,406.25

If we take that SSJ Gotenks was strong enough to beat Fat Boo then we get something like this:

SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ Gotenks: 500
SSJ3 Gotenks: 4,000
Evil Boo: 4,000
Gohan: 5,000
Bootenks: 8,000
Theoretical Goku + Gohan: (1 + 625(Assuming the Rou Kaioshin boost translates to base)) * Potara Boost = 10,000+
Boohan: 13,000

SSJ Vegetto: ((1+1)*162.5)*50 = 16,250

Also, going by the comment from Beerus that base Goku couldn't win against Freeza then the base Saiyans still aren't above 120,000,000. Using this as a guideline the most powerful Goku could be but still lose to Freeza in base would be 96,000,000. Using this we can determine that SSJ Vegetto would be between 135,000,000,000(135 billion) and 1,560,000,000,000(1 trillion 560 billion) respective of the two multipliers we got.

96 million is also not a bad number for Goku as at SSJ3 he'd be around 38 billion. Which would be decent for a Genki Dama to take out Pure Boo if we assume the Earth's population is 6 billion with average battle powers of 5 and only a portion of that going to the Genki Dama. Same with all of Goku's friends. If we also go by the latter figures then if SSJ3 Goku forced Beerus to use 1% and SSJ2 Vegeta(Enraged) was 10x stronger, making Beerus use 10%, then SSJ Vegetto would still be 4x stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta (Enraged). Likewise if Goku is truly stronger than the kids and he made Beerus use around 5% and SSJ2 Vegeta (Enraged) was 2x stronger, making Beerus use 10%, then That puts SSJ Vegetto at 20x stronger than him still. The former seems more reasonable though.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/list/ <--- At the bottom of the page it says X battle Power x Y Battle Power This means It's Power Level x Power Level. This also makes Vegito even stronger.

[h0kuten]

Rage Vegeta being stronger than Super Vegeta is just non-sense.Akira is underpowering Beerus 10% is way too much 1.2% that's reasonable but 10 that makes Vegeta way stronger than any other character several times over.

Going by that 10% foolishness

If Vegeta and Goku both had a Power Level of 1.000.000 when they fused.

Potara Fusion Formula Y battle power Multiplied By X Battle power

1.000.000 x 1.000.000 = 1.000.000.000.000

Base Vegito Power level is 1 Trillion

At Ssj it is 50 Trillion since it is Multiplied by 50 when ssj for those who don't know.

Now if Vegeta made Beerus use 10% of his power the. He is around 200 trillion making him 4 times stronger than Vegito.

This is ridiculous because Beerus is more than 100 million years old.How can a rage Vegeta make him summon that much power?

I don't think the guide says that it is BP x BP. What it says is Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto. Which would be a standard way of saying that Vegetto is more than the sum of his parts.

But like I pointed out, the increase with the fusion is a great deal. Going just by the statements in the story the fusion dance had to be comparable to a 4x-8x boost for SSJ Gotenks to be on par with Fat Boo. We can discern that the fusion dance between Goku and Vegeta would not have been enough against Boohan because we have a statement from Boohan himself thinking it wouldn't be enough. We also have a statement from the Rou Kaioshin stating that if Goku and Gohan fused they would have enough power in base to take out Bootenks. Going by the 25% gap rule across the series and pretending that SSJ Gotenks was nowhere near as strong as Goku made him out to be and having SSJ3 Gotenks as 25% stronger than SSJ3 Goku we'd have this as a minimum:

SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ3 Gotenks: 500
Evil Boo: 500
Gohan: 625
Bootenks: 1,000
Theoretical Goku + Gohan: (1 + 625(Assuming the Rou Kaioshin boost translates to base)) * Potara Boost = 1,250+
Boohan: 1125

SSJ Vegetto: ((1+1)*14.0625)*50 = 1,406.25

If we take that SSJ Gotenks was strong enough to beat Fat Boo then we get something like this:

SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ Gotenks: 500
SSJ3 Gotenks: 4,000
Evil Boo: 4,000
Gohan: 5,000
Bootenks: 8,000
Theoretical Goku + Gohan: (1 + 625(Assuming the Rou Kaioshin boost translates to base)) * Potara Boost = 10,000+
Boohan: 13,000

SSJ Vegetto: ((1+1)*162.5)*50 = 16,250

Also, going by the comment from Beerus that base Goku couldn't win against Freeza then the base Saiyans still aren't above 120,000,000. Using this as a guideline the most powerful Goku could be but still lose to Freeza in base would be 96,000,000. Using this we can determine that SSJ Vegetto would be between 135,000,000,000(135 billion) and 1,560,000,000,000(1 trillion 560 billion) respective of the two multipliers we got.

96 million is also not a bad number for Goku as at SSJ3 he'd be around 38 billion. Which would be decent for a Genki Dama to take out Pure Boo if we assume the Earth's population is 6 billion with average battle powers of 5 and only a portion of that going to the Genki Dama. Same with all of Goku's friends. If we also go by the latter figures then if SSJ3 Goku forced Beerus to use 1% and SSJ2 Vegeta(Enraged) was 10x stronger, making Beerus use 10%, then SSJ Vegetto would still be 4x stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta (Enraged). Likewise if Goku is truly stronger than the kids and he made Beerus use around 5% and SSJ2 Vegeta (Enraged) was 2x stronger, making Beerus use 10%, then That puts SSJ Vegetto at 20x stronger than him still. The former seems more reasonable though.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/list/ <--- At the bottom of the page it says X battle Power x Y Battle Power This means It's Power Level x Power Level. This also makes Vegito even stronger.

This would mean Vegetto's level looks more like this:

Goku
~Base 90,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 90,000,000

Vegetto
~Base 8,100,000,000,000,000
~Mssj 405,000,000,000,000,000

Although it doesn't really matter. Super Saiyan 3 (Db Super) Vegetto is only 2.5-5% of Beerus' full power.

[Sayo-chan]

Beerus didn't think base Goku could beat Freeza, so I have a hard time believing a rage boost could raise Vegeta above Boohan, let alone Vegetto. The whole gimmick with Gohan was that he was a half-breed that consistently received rage boosts as a kid. Even at his peak with Cell it wasn't that great. This was never implied with Vegeta, ever. Besides, isn't the Bobidi's spell supposed to take the possessed to their limits and further? I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Also, why are these threads suddenly allowed, despite there being an all-purpose versus thread?

[h0kuten]

Beerus didn't think base Goku could beat Freeza, so I have a hard time believing a rage boost could raise Vegeta above Boohan, let alone Vegetto. The whole gimmick with Gohan was that he was a half-breed that consistently received rage boosts as a kid. Even at his peak with Cell it wasn't that great. This was never implied with Vegeta, ever. Besides, isn't the Bobidi's spell supposed to take the possessed to their limits and further? I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Also, why are these threads suddenly allowed, despite there being an all-purpose versus thread?

It seems even more impossible that 1rst Form Frieza could so much that he approached God tier fighters. Or Piccolo becoming 150-300x stronger in a few years. Or Piccolo going from Nappa tier to surpassing Namek Goku with a mere fusion. Or Gotenks Base Post surpassing his Ssj Pre.

Unreasonable things happen. Nothing is impossible. Dragonball Z has proven this over and over.

Boohan is nothing now. He's like comparing Saiyan Saga Vegeta to Final Form Frieza. The villians get replaced by another over powered villian and this case isn't any different.

Potential is a forever changing concept in Dragonball Z and is never stationary.

[Sayo-chan]

Beerus didn't think base Goku could beat Freeza, so I have a hard time believing a rage boost could raise Vegeta above Boohan, let alone Vegetto. The whole gimmick with Gohan was that he was a half-breed that consistently received rage boosts as a kid. Even at his peak with Cell it wasn't that great. This was never implied with Vegeta, ever. Besides, isn't the Bobidi's spell supposed to take the possessed to their limits and further? I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Also, why are these threads suddenly allowed, despite there being an all-purpose versus thread?

It seems even more impossible that 1rst Form Freeza could so much that he approached God tier fighters. Or Piccolo becoming 150-300x stronger in a few years. Or Piccolo going from Nappa tier to surpassing Namek Goku with a mere fusion. Or Gotenks Base Post surpassing his Ssj Pre.

Unreasonable things happen. Nothing is impossible. Dragonball Z has proven this over and over.

Boohan is nothing now. He's like comparing Saiyan Saga Vegeta to Final Form Freeza. The villians get replaced by another over powered villian and this case isn't any different.

I bolded what I don't find to be out of the ordinary. Freeza, as stupid as it is, has an excuse. Vegeta doesn't. More over the last one you brought up isn't factual, it's subjective to debate. There's no way someone that's pretty much tapped out could become that strong. It's just another oversight due to the degeneration of the writing in this franchise. As I stated in my previous post: I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Potential is a forever changing concept in Dragonball Z and is never stationary.

Prove it without making a weak semantical argument.

[h0kuten]

Beerus didn't think base Goku could beat Freeza, so I have a hard time believing a rage boost could raise Vegeta above Boohan, let alone Vegetto. The whole gimmick with Gohan was that he was a half-breed that consistently received rage boosts as a kid. Even at his peak with Cell it wasn't that great. This was never implied with Vegeta, ever. Besides, isn't the Bobidi's spell supposed to take the possessed to their limits and further? I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Also, why are these threads suddenly allowed, despite there being an all-purpose versus thread?

It seems even more impossible that 1rst Form Freeza could so much that he approached God tier fighters. Or Piccolo becoming 150-300x stronger in a few years. Or Piccolo going from Nappa tier to surpassing Namek Goku with a mere fusion. Or Gotenks Base Post surpassing his Ssj Pre.

Unreasonable things happen. Nothing is impossible. Dragonball Z has proven this over and over.

Boohan is nothing now. He's like comparing Saiyan Saga Vegeta to Final Form Freeza. The villians get replaced by another over powered villian and this case isn't any different.

I bolded what I don't find to be out of the ordinary. Freeza, as stupid as it is, has an excuse. Vegeta doesn't. More over the last one you brought up isn't factual, it's subjective to debate. There's no way someone that's pretty much tapped out could become that strong. It's just another oversight due to the degeneration of the writing in this franchise. As I stated in my previous post: I maintain the position that Beerus brought the weakling virus in the same way Trunks brought the stupid virus from his timeline.

Potential is a forever changing concept in Dragonball Z and is never stationary.

Prove it without making a weak semantical argument.

Goku has always found new ways to do the impossible. Vegeta has always been his rival and started out infinitely stronger in the beginning.

He definitely does deserve the benefit of the doubt.

a) The Super Saiyan was intended as the strongest being in the universe.
~ Surpassed by the next saga.
b) Super Saiyan 2 was intended as Gohan's full potential. The entire Cell Games circulated around this.
~ Surpassed by Goku & Vegeta.
c) Goku thought he reached his limits in the Saiyan Saga (Herms quotes).
~ Infinitely surpassed his own expectations by the next Saga. This is an in universe charcter believing he capped out at 8,000. LMAO.

[Sayo-chan]

Goku has always found new ways to do the impossible. Vegeta has always been his rival and started out infinitely stronger in the beginning.

He definitely does deserve the benefit of the doubt.

a) The Super Saiyan was intended as the strongest being in the universe.
~ Surpassed by the next saga.
b) Super Saiyan 2 was intended as Gohan's full potential. The entire Cell Games circulated around this.
~ Surpassed by Goku & Vegeta.
c) Goku thought he reached his limits in the Saiyan Saga (Herms quotes).
~ Infinitely surpassed his own expectations by the next Saga. This is an in universe charcter believing he capped out at 8,000. LMAO.

A & B. The intention doesn't mean anything, it does nothing for your argument.
C. Goku's thoughts aren't comparable to a mechanism that draws out your power to or beyond its limitations.

Neither Goku nor Vegeta deserve the benefits of anyone's doubts. They're both idiots in different ways, after all.

Vegetto - 15
Boohan - 10
Beerus w/stupid virus - 2
Whis - 5
Base Vegeta - Insignificant figure
Base Goku - Insignificant figure

[h0kuten]

The entire Dragonball series focused against Gohan's latent potential and the entire premise of the Cell Games was Gohan accessing and mastering his latent potential. It was intended to always be superior to Goku & Vegeta. However, it was re-written when Goku & Vegeta surpass it. So yes, the argument is relevant.

Goku & Vegeta definitely deserve the benefit of the doubt due to doing the impossible time and time again and continuously reaching new power for specific reasons as opposed to Gohan's plot induced power that never had any valid reasoning.

Goku & Veget becoming Gods is more believable than Gohan turning into his Mystic form.

There is no such thing as Beerus w/ Virus.

[Sayo-chan]

The entire Dragonball series focused against Gohan's latent potential and the entire premise of the Cell Games was Gohan accessing and mastering his latent potential. It was intended to always be superior to Goku & Vegeta. However, it was re-written when Goku & Vegeta surpass it. So yes, the argument is relevant.

Goku & Vegeta definitely deserve the benefit of the doubt due to doing the impossible time and time again and continuously reaching new power for specific reasons as opposed to Gohan's plot induced power that never had any valid reasoning.

Goku & Veget becoming Gods is more believable than Gohan turning into his Mystic form.

There is no such thing as Beerus w/ Virus.

Uh... you're passing off your opinion as if it's factual. Dragon Ball was focused on Goku up until Cell, that's why he's the hero up until that point. It's not really debatable, it's simply a fact that until that point, Goku is the protagonist of the series. That's when the gauntlet, albeit seen as something that didn't work out very well by Toriyama, is passed down. Now just because Goku's the main guy doesn't mean other characters don't get development, even though Goku himself receives little to none despite being #1. Never in the Cell arc is it implied Gohan reached his limit, period. Supposedly he did upon receiving that deus ex machina power up from the old Kaioshin, but that's a separate issue. Whether or not you find that to be the intention is irrelevant, because not only can you not prove such a claim, but also because as I've stated, intention has nothing to do with this.

They don't do the impossible though, otherwise it wouldn't be impossible to begin with. They make rash, godawful decisions and get lucky. That's about all their characters amount to. You may as well describe them as the idiot savant and the jealous whiner. I also hardly think lazy storytelling of abusing mechanics over and over again is so much greater than Gohan's deus ex machina.

There's no such thing a "mystic form". It's just a fan term to refer to Gohan's form when he's maxed out. Gohan being maxed out is somehow less grounded in reality than characters becoming deities?

There is no such thing as Beerus w/ Virus

Sure there is. Super and the movies are their own mediums. They are not necessary to the manga just as the manga isn't necessary to them. Everyone in the medium is weaker, possibly/probably stupider, etc.

[h0kuten]

The entire Dragonball series focused against Gohan's latent potential and the entire premise of the Cell Games was Gohan accessing and mastering his latent potential. It was intended to always be superior to Goku & Vegeta. However, it was re-written when Goku & Vegeta surpass it. So yes, the argument is relevant.

Goku & Vegeta definitely deserve the benefit of the doubt due to doing the impossible time and time again and continuously reaching new power for specific reasons as opposed to Gohan's plot induced power that never had any valid reasoning.

Goku & Veget becoming Gods is more believable than Gohan turning into his Mystic form.

There is no such thing as Beerus w/ Virus.

Uh... you're passing off your opinion as if it's factual. Dragon Ball was focused on Goku up until Cell, that's why he's the hero up until that point. It's not really debatable, it's simply a fact that until that point, Goku is the protagonist of the series. That's when the gauntlet, albeit seen as something that didn't work out very well by Toriyama, is passed down. Now just because Goku's the main guy doesn't mean other characters don't get development, even though Goku himself receives little to none despite being #1. Never in the Cell arc is it implied Gohan reached his limit, period. Supposedly he did upon receiving that deus ex machina power up from the old Kaioshin, but that's a separate issue. Whether or not you find that to be the intention is irrelevant, because not only can you not prove such a claim, but also because as I've stated, intention has nothing to do with this.

They don't do the impossible though, otherwise it wouldn't be impossible to begin with. They make rash, godawful decisions and get lucky. That's about all their characters amount to. You may as well describe them as the idiot savant and the jealous whiner. I also hardly think lazy storytelling of abusing mechanics over and over again is so much greater than Gohan's deus ex machina.

There's no such thing a "mystic form". It's just a fan term to refer to Gohan's form when he's maxed out. Gohan being maxed out is somehow less grounded in reality than characters becoming deities?

There is no such thing as Beerus w/ Virus

Sure there is. Super and the movies are their own mediums. They are not necessary to the manga just as the manga isn't necessary to them. Everyone in the medium is weaker, possibly/probably stupider, etc.

If you're going to start this 'you're passing off your opinion as though it's factual', than let's end the discussion here.

Thanks.

[Sayo-chan]

The entire Dragonball series focused against Gohan's latent potential

If you're going to start this 'you're passing off your opinion as though it's factual', than let's end the discussion here.

Thanks.

Well I already stated where you were objectively wrong, but sure.

[h0kuten]

The entire Dragonball series focused against Gohan's latent potential

If you're going to start this 'you're passing off your opinion as though it's factual', than let's end the discussion here.

Thanks.

Well I already stated where you were objectively wrong, but sure.

That is your opinion. Please stop acting like your opinion is factual and others isn't.

[Sayo-chan]

That is your opinion. Please stop acting like your opinion is factual and others isn't.

That's not how opinions work. It's a fact concerning the story. Goku is the protagonist up until the Cell arc. The only gray area would be when he's briefly hospitalized. Beyond that there's no ambiguity concerning this.

[h0kuten]

That is your opinion. Please stop acting like your opinion is factual and others isn't.

That's not how opinions work. It's a fact concerning the story. Goku is the protagonist up until the latter third of the Cell arc. The only gray area would be when he's briefly hospitalized. Beyond this there's no ambiguity concerning this.

He was still the protagonist.

The Z Fighters spent more time on screen fighting the Saiyans than Goku did during that portion of the series. It doesn't mean Goku isn't the protagonist.

[Sayo-chan]

That is your opinion. Please stop acting like your opinion is factual and others isn't.

That's not how opinions work. It's a fact concerning the story. Goku is the protagonist up until the latter third of the Cell arc. The only gray area would be when he's briefly hospitalized. Beyond that there's no ambiguity concerning this.

He was still the protagonist.

The Z Fighters spent more time on screen fighting the Saiyans than Goku did during that portion of the series. It doesn't mean Goku isn't the protagonist.

Okay...? Why are you parroting what I said, as if to disagree? Goku is the protagonist up until the Cell arc. Some people may have the inclination to argue otherwise in the gray area I mentioned, that's the only reason I brought it up.

[Sandubadear]

Uh... probably Vegetto.

Taking Buu saga as reference, SS Vegetto was several times stronger than Buuhan, who was several times stronger SS3 Goku.

In Super, Rage SS2 Vegeta was stronger than SS3 Goku, but I don't see them reaching even Buu saga base Vegetto.

[Hugo Boss]

To be fair, the guidebooks portray Super Vegetto wielding power surpassing that of SS3. That's not very different from how Beerus praises pissed Vegeta.

[h0kuten]

Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto but upon seeing Raging Vegeta he decided to give him a chance to fight Beerus to see how well he does.

Raging Vegeta Ssj2 > Super Vegetto > Boohan > Bootenks > Goku Ssj3 (Db Super) > Shitty Gohan > Gotenks Ssj3

[Hugo Boss]

Goku dismisses the idea of using Super Vegetto but upon seeing Raging Vegeta he decided to give him a chance to fight Beerus to see how well he does.

Goku let everyone have their turn, so this is not really the main thing. But he didn't suggest any kind of fusion after Vegeta lost either, then it could mean that Goku was pretty sure that only Super Saiyan God could possibly change the outcome.