So is Tarble now non-canonical?

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Tai Lung
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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:22 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: that does not change the important point the series will return and will surely adapt the film of broly being discontinued after.
And even if it does happens I don’t think that means the Broly movie is retconned, it just means the anime is doing a retelling.
where are the movies about zamasu, tournament of u6 etc if its broadcast counting still? obviously it has been ruled out.
dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: the manga is adaptation of the script but again it does not adapt the entire script but the anime does.
Toriyama’s script said Black could also go regular ssj, but that only happened in the manga. Where is your evidence the manga leaves more things from Toriyama’s script out? .
fnf arc ?, broly arc? the manga is incomplete
dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: and goku makes it clear that he fights with ribrianne and kefla that only happens in the anime etc.
When was this? Are you talking about the flashback pic in the movie? Those two were next to all of the GoD that Goku never fought as well, the reason they were drawn was because they were the most recognizable.
goku does not know ribrianne in the manga and she is eliminated instantly it would not make sense to appear in this scene how if is import.
that and that the movie was made before the manga adapted the tournament of power, so the anime is taken into account.
dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: So the anime said is the adaptation of the script more completely therefore the main canon
so it is clear the manga is just a minor adaptation.
I’m going to need proof the anime is adapting more of the script.

there is participation in the 3 versions but only one adapt the story comlete.
in the same link the author talks about the tournament of of u6 in the series, likewise toei created kale and the autor included caulifla after the auor created it.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:36 pm

Tai Lung wrote: where are the movies about zamasu, tournament of u6 etc if its broadcast counting still? obviously it has been ruled out.
You could argue that for the BoG movie, but the RoF movie fits in with the manga. You could also argue they can replace the beginning of the manga or anime if you want. If you just watched the two movies instead of the first two arcs I don't think you miss a single important thing. The special edition of RoF came out after the RoF arc and it came with extra scenes connecting it to the Black arc. So please tell me, if the RoF movie isn't a prequel to the Black arc, why would it have scenes of the Black arc in the movie? Is the audience supposed to watch the movie and think "wow I will never see the continuation of this version of the story" or are they supposed to think "I can watch the continuation of this story in the anime"?
fnf arc ?, broly arc? the manga is incomplete
The movies fill in the gaps. Just because it's a movie it doesn't mean it can't fit in. Just look at Naruto/Boruto. They retold the Boruto movie in the manga and anime, but they did not retell the Naruto the Last movie, which is shown to still be canon.
goku does not know ribrianne in the manga and she is eliminated instantly it would not make sense to appear in this scene how if is import.
that and that the movie was made before the manga adapted the tournament of power, so the anime is taken into account.
Goku never said he knew any of those people. He didn't see the other GoD in the anime but he saw them fight in the manga, so by your logic that would be evidence of it being a continuation of the manga version. Please stop pretending that scene was any more than a cameo of characters from the ToP.
there is participation in the 3 versions but only one adapt the story comlete.
in the same link the author talks about the tournament of of u6 in the series, likewise toei created kale and the autor included caulifla after the auor created it.
Yeah, the anime is the only one that tells the story through a consistent medium, but that doesn't mean the other version of the story isn't complete.
The manga can have its gaps filled in with the movies, and the movies can have their gaps filled in with the anime or manga.
The anime gets a bonus for telling the whole story, but it also gets a negative for telling anime original stories like the potafu arc that aren't a part of Toriyama's story.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:13 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: where are the movies about zamasu, tournament of u6 etc if its broadcast counting still? obviously it has been ruled out.
You could argue that for the BoG movie, but the RoF movie fits in with the manga. You could also argue they can replace the beginning of the manga or anime if you want. If you just watched the two movies instead of the first two arcs I don't think you miss a single important thing. The special edition of RoF came out after the RoF arc and it came with extra scenes connecting it to the Black arc. So please tell me, if the RoF movie isn't a prequel to the Black arc, why would it have scenes of the Black arc in the movie? Is the audience supposed to watch the movie and think "wow I will never see the continuation of this version of the story" or are they supposed to think "I can watch the continuation of this story in the anime"?

fnf arc ?, broly arc? the manga is incomplete
The movies fill in the gaps. Just because it's a movie it doesn't mean it can't fit in. Just look at Naruto/Boruto. They retold the Boruto movie in the manga and anime, but they did not retell the Naruto the Last movie, which is shown to still be canon. [/quote]

They do not fill it up at least not as such.
that includes that goku absorbed the power of the gods in the anime and movies as the author had foreseen but in the manga it was not the case. and again you have to depend on extra material "hey, you want to see what happens?, so you go watch the movie" only showing that it is incomplete and merely commercial.

already but it is not case of DB adapts all the previous material not to be dependent on other means. while the films are left aside, and the manga is still depending on extra material and is not its own independent version.
dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: goku does not know ribrianne in the manga and she is eliminated instantly it would not make sense to appear in this scene how if is import.
that and that the movie was made before the manga adapted the tournament of power, so the anime is taken into account.
Goku never said he knew any of those people. He didn't see the other GoD in the anime but he saw them fight in the manga, so by your logic that would be evidence of it being a continuation of the manga version. Please stop pretending that scene was any more than a cameo of characters from the ToP.
[/quote]


Goku saw them when he arrived at the tournament.
the cameo is to show the important warriors with whom I fight the character.
pretending?. your assumption is impossible .. the manga still did not perform that part when the film was being made.
dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: there is participation in the 3 versions but only one adapt the story comlete.
in the same link the author talks about the tournament of of u6 in the series, likewise toei created kale and the autor included caulifla after the auor created it.
Yeah, the anime is the only one that tells the story through a consistent medium, but that doesn't mean the other version of the story isn't complete.
The manga can have its gaps filled in with the movies, and the movies can have their gaps filled in with the anime or manga.
The anime gets a bonus for telling the whole story, but it also gets a negative for telling anime original stories like the potafu arc that aren't a part of Toriyama's story.
that same neither the manga nor the movies can be counted as independent continuities
Every so often the movies are not broadcast.
The manga also skips arcs every time it can.
the anime has extra material although this is simply discarded when both versions are compared
in all cases the 3 differ in events between storys..

and if one is the most complete, independent and contains the complete script of the author then it is the main canon.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Tai Lung wrote: They do not fill it up at least not as such.
that includes that goku absorbed the power of the gods in the anime and movies as the author had foreseen but in the manga it was not the case. and again you have to depend on extra material "hey, you want to see what happens?, so you go watch the movie" only showing that it is incomplete and merely commercial.
already but it is not case of DB adapts all the previous material not to be dependent on other means. while the films are left aside, and the manga is still depending on extra material and is not its own independent version.
I agree the anime is the most complete version of super by itself, but like I said, that doesn't' mean most canon. There is no canon when it comes to super, there are just different versions the fans can watch/read to enjoy the continuation of dragon ball.
And even though we never see Goku absorb the god power in the manga, it was technically never said to not be the case, and for all we know Toriyama changed his mind. In both the super anime and the broly movie SSG was brought back, so clearly they can go into the SSG form in all versions, and we have the U6 saiyans, and future Trunks matching Goku and Vegeta while not in god forms, so the whole absorbing god power, while I still think happened, seemed to be nerfed.
dragon boss z wrote: Goku saw them when he arrived at the tournament.
By that logic he saw Ribrianne there with all the other contestants as well.
the cameo is to show the important warriors with whom I fight the character.
It was there to show easily recognizable ToP characters. Ribrianne was not an important fight for Goku.
pretending?. your assumption is impossible .. the manga still did not perform that part when the film was being made.
The final ToP manga chapter came out only a few days after the Broly movie came out, and there isn't a single thing in the movie that contradicts what happens in the manga but backs up what happened in the anime. SSBKKx20 and SSBE weren't used, so if anything it ignored what the anime did, though it also ignores mastered SSB as well. The movie is just a general continuation, and anything that Toriyama didn't come up with himself he left out of his script.
and if one is the most complete, independent and contains the complete script of the author then it is the main canon.
This is your head canon. I would guarantee Toriyama considers his original manga the "most canon" out of anything, and the Super anime having filler characters like Gregory and referencing the Ginu filler is already enough to put its absolute canocity into question.
Neither Toriyama, Toei, or Toyotaro have claimed any of these versions are more canon than the other. Like I said, they are all official continuations of Toriyama's story. This is a fictional universe, there is no "real events that happened". It's all fake made up stuff for entertainment. The reason things like GT and the movies are "non canon" is because they didn't come from Toriyama and they literally don't even fit in with the rest of the story.

Your argument is like saying the Harry Potter movies are more canon than the books because the new fantastic beasts and where to find them movies are prequels to the movies, not the books, and that would be a ridiculous claim.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:30 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: They do not fill it up at least not as such.
that includes that goku absorbed the power of the gods in the anime and movies as the author had foreseen but in the manga it was not the case. and again you have to depend on extra material "hey, you want to see what happens?, so you go watch the movie" only showing that it is incomplete and merely commercial.
already but it is not case of DB adapts all the previous material not to be dependent on other means. while the films are left aside, and the manga is still depending on extra material and is not its own independent version.
I agree the anime is the most complete version of super by itself, but like I said, that doesn't' mean most canon. There is no canon when it comes to super, there are just different versions the fans can watch/read to enjoy the continuation of dragon ball.
And even though we never see Goku absorb the god power in the manga, it was technically never said to not be the case, and for all we know Toriyama changed his mind. In both the super anime and the broly movie SSG was brought back, so clearly they can go into the SSG form in all versions, and we have the U6 saiyans, and future Trunks matching Goku and Vegeta while not in god forms, so the whole absorbing god power, while I still think happened, seemed to be nerfed. .
can not be called as such a version as such if it is not complete in its adaptation. yeah is what I am saying, the movies adapted to part of canon history yes, but then they were discarded to recton with the series. There are no movies that continue the rest. In addition to the events in the anime and manga are differed with movies., I have enough to me to indicate the main canon and the others are minor means.
dragon boss z wrote: By that logic he saw Ribrianne there with all the other contestants as well.
but goku never fought with she in the manga my point stays
It was there to show easily recognizable ToP characters. Ribrianne was not an important fight for Goku.
universe 2 black hole, with ribriannne´s power
dragon boss z wrote: The final ToP manga chapter came out only a few days after the Broly movie came out, and there isn't a single thing in the movie that contradicts what happens in the manga but backs up what happened in the anime. SSBKKx20 and SSBE weren't used, so if anything it ignored what the anime did, though it also ignores mastered SSB as well. The movie is just a general continuation, and anything that Toriyama didn't come up with himself he left out of his script.
I regret to inform you that the films are made one year in advance as the author said. the film of broly began to take place in 2017 more or less with the TOP anime .
ribriannne and kefla scene in the thought of goku as if they were important characters.
General continuation, sure does but not remove that it is mentioned that it is continuation of the tv series
dragon boss z wrote: This is your head canon. I would guarantee Toriyama considers his original manga the "most canon" out of anything, and the Super anime having filler characters like Gregory and referencing the Ginu filler is already enough to put its absolute canocity into question.
Neither Toriyama, Toei, or Toyotaro have claimed any of these versions are more canon than the other. Like I said, they are all official continuations of Toriyama's story. This is a fictional universe, there is no "real events that happened". It's all fake made up stuff for entertainment. The reason things like GT and the movies are "non canon" is because they didn't come from Toriyama and they literally don't even fit in with the rest of the story.

Your argument is like saying the Harry Potter movies are more canon than the books because the new fantastic beasts and where to find them movies are prequels to the movies, not the books, and that would be a ridiculous claim.
if you want to see it like that, it's your decision ...
it's just logical ... you can not call a "canon" a media that only adapts a part of the story that is too incomplete and is too dependent on extra material that differs to be taken as that.
at 3 the author has participation and the 3 adapt the canon
Gregory was adopted in the canon appearance in the ova de tarble as well as the south kai appeared first in the anime and then in the manga.
again they are a "canon" minors reason why they can afford to skip events at the end of the day they are disposable because the anime will adapt it anyway.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:35 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: the cameo is to show the important warriors with whom I fight the character.
It was there to show easily recognizable ToP characters. Ribrianne was not an important fight for Goku.
Soon Right after Showing Ribrianne and Kefla they showed Jiren, Toppo and Dispo, the scenes where literally back-to-back in the movie. A Fan can hardly say that the U11 fights where not important, but even more added to thisis that the U11 scene is literally said/stated in the movie by Goku Himself in how Incredible the Fighters of the ToP where, Goku saying this right around the same-time when the Ribrianne and Kefla scene was shown. So by what the story is saying here, by that point Ribrianne is being presented by Toei as an Important fighter in the ToP.

By that interpretation Toei is trying to state that Kefla and Ribrianne where important fighters to take notices of, even if that Anime Story got messy in showing it at points with power scaling, Toei is still putting in the story to point out that theses where the fighters Goku got impresses by the most.

Also to back this up even more, the same was stated by Goku himself in episode 108 of Ribrianne's fighting power he was impressed by and Universe 2 kept surprising Goku like he stated in episode 118. Again, power leveling was messy and they should have followed this up with showing Goku Changing his hair color more often, but it can't be denied Toei was saying in their writing Ribrianne was an important figure from the ToP no matter what level of the spectrum of power she ends up on, She impressed Goku and is state multiple times by his own words as such. :idea:
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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by TobyS » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:13 am

People are reading waaaay to much into a generic splash page showing an assortment of fighters who were ALL strong and new as far as Goku was concerned.

If you really wanna be picky you can say it favours the manga cuz it mostly shows GoDs who Goku saw fight in the manga but not the anime.

But really it means nothing except “I recently met a bunch of other strong fighters”
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:38 pm

There isn’t an official outlined canon, so any question regarding this subject hasn’t a simple answer. Anyway, Tarble seems to be part of movie storylines, at least.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:32 pm

Tai Lung wrote: can not be called as such a version as such if it is not complete in its adaptation. yeah is what I am saying, the movies adapted to part of canon history yes, but then they were discarded to recton with the series. There are no movies that continue the rest. In addition to the events in the anime and manga are differed with movies., I have enough to me to indicate the main canon and the others are minor means.
What from the movies was discarded besides the Beerus using 70% line? If you can watch the movies instead of the arcs and not be confused, then nothing was really retconned.
By your logic the original manga isn’t canon because there isn’t a complete super manga continuation. By your logic the Harry Potter books are no longer canon because the new movies aren’t in book form. Just look at Star Wars, they have canon movies, shows, comics, and books. They all connect, they don’t all have to be one type of media.
but goku never fought with she in the manga my point stays
Goku never said he fought her in the movie, so no it doesn’t. It just proves she was in the ToP.
universe 2 black hole, with ribriannne´s power
That move wasn’t referenced in the movie, so I’m not sure how that’s relevant.
I regret to inform you that the films are made one year in advance as the author said. the film of broly began to take place in 2017 more or less with the TOP anime .
ribriannne and kefla scene in the thought of goku as if they were important characters.
General continuation, sure does but not remove that it is mentioned that it is continuation of the tv series
They still had the general idea of the plot and Toriyama’s outline.
if you want to see it like that, it's your decision ...
it's just logical ... you can not call a "canon" a media that only adapts a part of the story that is too incomplete and is too dependent on extra material that differs to be taken as that.
at 3 the author has participation and the 3 adapt the canon
Gregory was adopted in the canon appearance in the ova de tarble as well as the south kai appeared first in the anime and then in the manga.
again they are a "canon" minors reason why they can afford to skip events at the end of the day they are disposable because the anime will adapt it anyway.
Like I said, Star Wars complete disproves that. Darth Maul was brought back in the cartoon TV show, and because they consider the cartoon canon they brought Maul back for a cameo in the Solo movie. The CW show didn’t finish so one of Maul’s arcs had to be adapted to a comic, but they are all still canon. Just because you have to jump from manga/comic to movie to show does not make it any less canon.
And I just skimmed through yo son Goku and his friends return and I did not see Gregory.
CJStriker_CBR wrote:
Soon Right after Showing Ribrianne and Kefla they showed Jiren, Toppo and Dispo, the scenes where literally back-to-back in the movie. A Fan can hardly say that the U11 fights where not important, but even more added to thisis that the U11 scene is literally said/stated in the movie by Goku Himself in how Incredible the Fighters of the ToP where, Goku saying this right around the same-time when the Ribrianne and Kefla scene was shown. So by what the story is saying here, by that point Ribrianne is being presented by Toei as an Important fighter in the ToP.

By that interpretation Toei is trying to state that Kefla and Ribrianne where important fighters to take notices of, even if that Anime Story got messy in showing it at points with power scaling, Toei is still putting in the story to point out that theses where the fighters Goku got impresses by the most.

Also to back this up even more, the same was stated by Goku himself in episode 108 of Ribrianne's fighting power he was impressed by and Universe 2 kept surprising Goku like he stated in episode 118. Again, power leveling was messy and they should have followed this up with showing Goku Changing his hair color more often, but it can't be denied Toei was saying in their writing Ribrianne was an important figure from the ToP no matter what level of the spectrum of power she ends up on, She impressed Goku and is state multiple times by his own words as such. :idea:
I had a feeling you would respond to that line, lmao.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:10 pm

dragon boss z wrote: What from the movies was discarded besides the Beerus using 70% line? If you can watch the movies instead of the arcs and not be confused, then nothing was really retconned.
By your logic the original manga isn’t canon because there isn’t a complete super manga continuation. By your logic the Harry Potter books are no longer canon because the new movies aren’t in book form. Just look at Star Wars, they have canon movies, shows, comics, and books. They all connect, they don’t all have to be one type of media..
Now it is you who puts words in my mouth
The canon is what the author says it is.

Dragon Ball Super is a complete continuation of the Majin Boo story arc. It’s got a bit of post-battle aftermath, continues with the Battle of Gods arc where the God of Destruction Beerus appears and the Resurrection ‘F’ arc where Freeza comes back to life

if the events were done in a more complete version made by toei again with the same script of the author with parts that could not be added due to lack of time while the previous version is cut because no new films came out counting zamasu arc, top arc, u6 tournament counting movie version if that is what you want to pretend ... what do you want me to tell you?
not all fictions work the same ... you also have star wars that are discarded much of the expanded universe there are many different cases. Is it my logic? dude is simple the movies only have a part of the canon unlike the series therefore it is a minor canon ... which was discarded to tell the whole story in the anime.
dragon boss z wrote: Goku never said he fought her in the movie, so no it doesn’t. It just proves she was in the ToP.
the scene is to show the thought of goku about the warriors of the tournament that gave him problems
and as well said CJStriker_CBR, scene is literally said / stated in the movie by Goku Himself in how Incredible the Fighters of the ToP where, Goku saying this right around the same time when the Ribrianne and Kefla scene was shown.
As I said it does not make sense in the manga because goku do not fight with them but in the anime yes and that's because the movie was made before the manga.
dragon boss z wrote: That move wasn’t referenced in the movie, so I’m not sure how that’s relevant.
no reference is made to the movement but to the characters in question so ribrianne. in the manga she was only fodder but in the anime goku admits that she a formidable warrior.
dragon boss z wrote: They still had the general idea of the plot and Toriyama’s outline.
probably but still it differs in events as I said with the comment of goku that only works with the facts of the anime
with dyspo, kefla and ribrianne VS Goku
dragon boss z wrote: Like I said, Star Wars complete disproves that. Darth Maul was brought back in the cartoon TV show, and because they consider the cartoon canon they brought Maul back for a cameo in the Solo movie. The CW show didn’t finish so one of Maul’s arcs had to be adapted to a comic, but they are all still canon. Just because you have to jump from manga/comic to movie to show does not make it any less canon.
And I just skimmed through yo son Goku and his friends return and I did not see Gregory.
.
I have already said not all fictions work the same as I have already talked about the expanded universe SW
godzilla comics of idw was canon but after they were not anymore for the movies.
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Gregory

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Now it is you who puts words in my mouth
The canon is what the author says it is.
Dragon Ball Super is a complete continuation of the Majin Boo story arc. It’s got a bit of post-battle aftermath, continues with the Battle of Gods arc where the God of Destruction Beerus appears and the Resurrection ‘F’ arc where Freeza comes back to life
Nothing about canon is mentioned there.
not all fictions work the same ... you also have star wars that are discarded much of the expanded universe there are many different cases. Is it my logic? dude is simple the movies only have a part of the canon unlike the series therefore it is a minor canon ... which was discarded to tell the whole story in the anime.
The expanded universe was never considered canon by Lucas. It was akin to dragon ball GT, movies and games.
I have already said not all fictions work the same as I have already talked about the expanded universe SW
godzilla comics of idw was canon but after they were not anymore for the movies.
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Gregory
Dragon ball is literally known for having a loose canon, with Toriyama changing his mind and putting whatever he wants in and throwing out what he doesn't. Your arguments provide no facts about what is more canon than the other.
I can use your own argument against you saying that currently the super anime is not complete, while the manga is continuing right now with the Moro arc. Viz even marketed the super manga as the official canon continuation of the dragon ball manga.
The highest level of canon is Toriyama's scripts, and the anime, manga, and movies are all just creations based off of those scripts.
And that Gregory scene is more of just a cameo. He was not ever shown up front or given any lines.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:58 am

dragon boss z wrote: Nothing about canon is mentioned there.
continuous of the buu arc therefore official continuation, this is mentioned. if that is said for the 3 versions ... but how could you understand or not? some only adapt a part.
dragon boss z wrote: The expanded universe was never considered canon by Lucas. It was akin to dragon ball GT, movies and games.
in SW that is denied sometime before? that I know only came out as an official product.
dragon boss z wrote: Dragon ball is literally known for having a loose canon, with Toriyama changing his mind and putting whatever he wants in and throwing out what he doesn't. Your arguments provide no facts about what is more canon than the other.
I can use your own argument against you saying that currently the super anime is not complete, while the manga is continuing right now with the Moro arc. Viz even marketed the super manga as the official canon continuation of the dragon ball manga.
The highest level of canon is Toriyama's scripts, and the anime, manga, and movies are all just creations based off of those scripts.
And that Gregory scene is more of just a cameo. He was not ever shown up front or given any lines.
we are lying if we said that toei would don´t take out another anime by continuing the dragon ball super anime and adapt the whole story again?
apart from that the current movie is announced as continuation of the television series.
it does not change much that, gregory has seemed the same was adopted in the canon the same with south kai in the anime and after in the manga.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:31 am

Tai Lung wrote: continuous of the buu arc therefore official continuation, this is mentioned. if that is said for the 3 versions ... but how could you understand or not? some only adapt a part.
I already agreed it was an official continuation. There is no questioning that. But I'm saying the other versions are also official continuations.
And it's not me understanding or not, it's you not understanding that statement doesn't prove it's more canon no matter how you look at it. You are also relying on a translation from another language and pulling subtext you have no proof even exists.
If you want to think that means it's the most canon, and you accept it as your own personal canon, more power to you, but you are going around telling people it's more canon as a fact, when it is not a fact. AT BEST it's a likely assumption backed by some evidence, which still isn't PROOF.
in SW that is denied sometime before? that I know only came out as an official product.
In the EU the sith home world was called Korriban, and when Lucas decided to add the sith home world into the CW television show, he said he wanted to make his version Moraband. It's kind of like how Toriyama brings anime/movie elements back with a twist. Another example is back when Lucas was still in charge, one of the jedi previously killed in an EU comic by Grievous was killed by Savage Opress in the CW show, showing they didn't consider the comic canon. Basically Lucas only ever considered his own works canon, similar to Toriyama. Then Disney bought them out and mad it abundantly clear, keeping the Lucas canon (movies and CW show) and saying everything else is legends, and moving forward everything they make will be canon and connected.
it does not change much that, gregory has seemed the same was adopted in the canon the same with south kai in the anime and after in the manga.
I'm not saying anime characters can't be put into canon, as Bardock is obvious proof they can. But if that happens they need an introduction. Just having Gregory there and pretending like he has always been there, and having reference to anime filler scenes, would confuse manga only readers. I also believe the super anime was marketed as a continuation of the anime before it came out, which makes sense as kai was just finishing, they decided to add Gergory, they decided to use anime Vegeta's hair style, they decided to use kai flashbacks, they decided to have filler references, ect.
There is an overall canon story to dragon ball, and the manga, anime, and movies tell it, but saying one specific one rains above all, when no statement proves such a thing, is just you making assumptions.
Not to mention the line you are using is from before or around Super started coming out, before Toriyama actually saw it and said he was disappointed in it, so even if he was planning on it being the main continuation for all you know he could have changed his mind since then.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:53 pm

dragon boss z wrote: I already agreed it was an official continuation. There is no questioning that. But I'm saying the other versions are also official continuations.
And it's not me understanding or not, it's you not understanding that statement doesn't prove it's more canon no matter how you look at it. You are also relying on a translation from another language and pulling subtext you have no proof even exists.
If you want to think that means it's the most canon, and you accept it as your own personal canon, more power to you, but you are going around telling people it's more canon as a fact, when it is not a fact. AT BEST it's a likely assumption backed by some evidence, which still isn't PROOF.
have not said that the 2 versions are not official, but that they are a minor canon because they do not have a complete adaptation.
the films did not continue their version is discarded when starting the series that adapts its content, making the previous one unnecessary.
and the manga skips contedio as if its version did not matter giving priority to the animated version. facts ...
dragon boss z wrote: In the EU the sith home world was called Korriban, and when Lucas decided to add the sith home world into the CW television show, he said he wanted to make his version Moraband. It's kind of like how Toriyama brings anime/movie elements back with a twist. Another example is back when Lucas was still in charge, one of the jedi previously killed in an EU comic by Grievous was killed by Savage Opress in the CW show, showing they didn't consider the comic canon. Basically Lucas only ever considered his own works canon, similar to Toriyama. Then Disney bought them out and mad it abundantly clear, keeping the Lucas canon (movies and CW show) and saying everything else is legends, and moving forward everything they make will be canon and connected.
Although I do not have much to see, I recognize I do not know these facts. However, I will repeat, not all fictions work the same.
but in the case of the IDW comics many are canon but when a new movie is released by adapting a story with many different events, they pass to the background due to artisitic decision like the case of godzilla.
dragon boss z wrote: I'm not saying anime characters can't be put into canon, as Bardock is obvious proof they can. But if that happens they need an introduction. Just having Gregory there and pretending like he has always been there, and having reference to anime filler scenes, would confuse manga only readers. I also believe the super anime was marketed as a continuation of the anime before it came out, which makes sense as kai was just finishing, they decided to add Gergory, they decided to use anime Vegeta's hair style, they decided to use kai flashbacks, they decided to have filler references, ect.
There is an overall canon story to dragon ball, and the manga, anime, and movies tell it, but saying one specific one rains above all, when no statement proves such a thing, is just you making assumptions.
Not to mention the line you are using is from before or around Super started coming out, before Toriyama actually saw it and said he was disappointed in it, so even if he was planning on it being the main continuation for all you know he could have changed his mind since then.
Gregory is a secondary character irrelevant to the plot that does not affect at all if it exists so there is no problem in his appearance again. South Kai was never presented in the manga, it only appeared as if it had always existed but was only presented in the anime.
the author never said that, anyway he also had negative comments with the manga that does not change anything
the design is simply design the appearance of bardock is different from the manga

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Zillamon51 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:53 pm

Tarble is mentioned in two movies that, unlike the older crop of movies, are in continuity. That makes him "canon," even if he's never actually appeared again.

A far more egregious case of "out of sight, out of mind" is Tights. Bulma has been a main character since the very beginning of the saga, and not one mention of her sister until so recently?
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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Tai Lung wrote: have not said that the 2 versions are not official, but that they are a minor canon because they do not have a complete adaptation.
the films did not continue their version is discarded when starting the series that adapts its content, making the previous one unnecessary.
and the manga skips contedio as if its version did not matter giving priority to the animated version. facts ...
Nobody that works on dragon ball has ever said anything about minor or major canon, so you claiming what is major and what is minor is you presenting your thoughts, whether right or wrong, as facts. And the manga skipped the RoF arc, but it didn't do it because the anime version was doing it, Toyotaro showed flash backs in the ToP arc and Tagoma wasn't there, meaning the movie version of the events were what took place in the manga version, which makes sense considering when Toyotaro skipped the RoF arc the movie was the only version out at the time, and the movie version is meant to be a manga continuation, as when they re did the namek scenes in the special edition they re did them like the manga and not the anime.
South Kai was never presented in the manga, it only appeared as if it had always existed but was only presented in the anime.
The first time south kai is shown in the manga when Goku is training King Kai reintroduces him.
the author never said that, anyway he also had negative comments with the manga that does not change anything
the design is simply design the appearance of bardock is different from the manga
Here is the quote
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/akir ... animation/

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:52 pm

dragon boss z wrote: Nobody that works on dragon ball has ever said anything about minor or major canon, so you claiming what is major and what is minor is you presenting your thoughts, whether right or wrong, as facts. And the manga skipped the RoF arc, but it didn't do it because the anime version was doing it, Toyotaro showed flash backs in the ToP arc and Tagoma wasn't there, meaning the movie version of the events were what took place in the manga version, which makes sense considering when Toyotaro skipped the RoF arc the movie was the only version out at the time, and the movie version is meant to be a manga continuation, as when they re did the namek scenes in the special edition they re did them like the manga and not the anime.

if they tell me that it is a more complete series and that they prefer to give more priority to the animated version, it is quite implicit.
Goku has "beyond god in the movie" in the manga this not exist differs from his contenndio in any case.
dragon boss z wrote: The first time south kai is shown in the manga when Goku is training King Kai reintroduces him.
the difference is one month and the anime chapters just like the movies take a while to perform as such and they did not, appear the kai in the anime, in the manga only appeared for goku scene loading 40 tons and his concept was not planned.
dragon boss z wrote: Here is the quote
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/akir ... animation/
it is false the only thing he said is that the animation does not convince him so much, which you take out of context as I can tell you that he said that toyotaro on the fights of the manga of Toyotaro did not have the impact that he would like again does not prove anything.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:56 pm

Tai Lung wrote: if they tell me that it is a more complete series and that they prefer to give more priority to the animated version, it is quite implicit.
He didn't say more complete, he just said it will be a complete continuation without mentioning the other versions at all.
Goku has "beyond god in the movie" in the manga this not exist differs from his contenndio in any case.
He is never stated to be beyond god in the movie. Base Goku was final form Frieza tier, who was above everyone else, that's all we know. The flash backs were shown in the ToP arc, and nothing points to the events playing out any differently. In the manga it is confirmed base Goku is above supreme kai level, which is above Piccolo, so that lines up with base Goku and Frieza being above Piccolo and everyone else.
the difference is one month and the anime chapters just like the movies take a while to perform as such and they did not, appear the kai in the anime, in the manga only appeared for goku scene loading 40 tons and his concept was not planned.
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here.
it is false the only thing he said is that the animation does not convince him so much, which you take out of context as I can tell you that he said that toyotaro on the fights of the manga of Toyotaro did not have the impact that he would like again does not prove anything.
And I would agree with Toriyama on that as well, but nothing compares to how bad some parts in the BoG and RoF arc were. Some scenes were so bad it's actually surprising they aired them and then didn't even bother to actually fix them in the blue ray release.

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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:41 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
CJStriker_CBR wrote: Soon Right after Showing Ribrianne and Kefla they showed Jiren, Toppo and Dispo, the scenes where literally back-to-back in the movie. A Fan can hardly say that the U11 fights where not important, but even more added to thisis that the U11 scene is literally said/stated in the movie by Goku Himself in how Incredible the Fighters of the ToP where, Goku saying this right around the same-time when the Ribrianne and Kefla scene was shown. So by what the story is saying here, by that point Ribrianne is being presented by Toei as an Important fighter in the ToP.

By that interpretation Toei is trying to state that Kefla and Ribrianne where important fighters to take notices of, even if that Anime Story got messy in showing it at points with power scaling, Toei is still putting in the story to point out that theses where the fighters Goku got impresses by the most.

Also to back this up even more, the same was stated by Goku himself in episode 108 of Ribrianne's fighting power he was impressed by and Universe 2 kept surprising Goku like he stated in episode 118. Again, power leveling was messy and they should have followed this up with showing Goku Changing his hair color more often, but it can't be denied Toei was saying in their writing Ribrianne was an important figure from the ToP no matter what level of the spectrum of power she ends up on, She impressed Goku and is state multiple times by his own words as such. :idea:
I had a feeling you would respond to that line, lmao.
Indeed, it was a well talked about scene in the movie leading to discussions on what it meant for characters like Ribrianne and Kefla to get such a shout-out by Toei threw Goku's Eyes.

Honestly I have not heard any conclusion that the movie in officially canon yet, Honestly I hope it is but not for just this seconds scene, mostly cause the new Planet Vegeta History, Bardock Family and the New Super Broly, along with Cheelai and Lemo where such Great Characters and a nice update to the Lore that I really want them and this new history to be cannon! :thumbup:

But back to the point, Goku has always been good at appreciating a fellow fighters power and skill, it is one of his most admirable qualities but one he does not shout out lightly, so even the most brief of cameo can lead to a 1,000 words on what it means for these characters, espically since both Ribrianne and Kefla where so front and center. What is Toei trying to say to us, Yea we might be going to much into it, but I am a Ribrianne fan and it is Important, as a fan maybe the most important, to discuss as much of the goings-ons with her as much as possible to make sure all is the most fairly laid out about her character.

Whether it is reading to much into this or not, it still cares weight to it after all the discussion by fans on over these past nearly 2 years since her debut in May 2017 on whether Ribrianne in the eyes of Toei going forward is an important character and by both this and what they gave us in the Anime. She has the background resume, development and talk about her by other characters in the show both base on power and persona that she did have an impact and a presence.
Toei has been giving that out to us in bits and pieces, even if in the ToP they could only go so far with her character cause of whatever restraints in story their might have been, they still seem determent to make use care about her character.

Whether this proves to be truly or just again reading to much into this, until Super 2.0 starts to show itself or Toei comes out offical statements about characters going forward, all fans like us can do is speculate to the best of our abilities with what is given to us.

Tai Lung wrote:the scene is to show the thought of goku about the warriors of the tournament that gave him problems
and as well said CJStriker_CBR, scene is literally said / stated in the movie by Goku Himself in how Incredible the Fighters of the ToP where, Goku saying this right around the same time when the Ribrianne and Kefla scene was shown.
As I said it does not make sense in the manga because goku do not fight with them but in the anime yes and that's because the movie was made before the manga.
Thanks for the shout out Tai Lung and glad that you agree and saw the same thing I did in what that scene in the movie meant for Ribrianne's character. :)

Like I said early whether it is something that ends up being something to take note about or not, Toei still put in the effort to make use notice Ribrianne in importance, by Goku's Eyes not less, as a significant player in the ToP. Until Toei comes out with Super 2.0 or official statements about the characters going forward, all we can go by their intent for the characters is in how they present to use in the show and movies and by what I have document and with this movie scene Toei wants us to take notice of Ribrianne as a factor to importance.

We will see, but it is something to take note on like any other scene in the show or movie. :idea:
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Re: So is Tarble now non-canonical?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:12 am

dragon boss z wrote: He didn't say more complete, he just said it will be a complete continuation without mentioning the other versions at all.
I do not see the need to clarify that if it were not a comparison with the other versions.
dragon boss z wrote: He is never stated to be beyond god in the movie. Base Goku was final form Frieza tier, who was above everyone else, that's all we know. The flash backs were shown in the ToP arc, and nothing points to the events playing out any differently. In the manga it is confirmed base Goku is above supreme kai level, which is above Piccolo, so that lines up with base Goku and Frieza being above Piccolo and everyone else.
in the movie of the battle of the gods goku absorbs that power, and for FNF movie that transformation is announced
Image
dragon boss z wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here.
that the approach and plot of the kaioshin of 4 sectors of the galaxy was done in the anime, not in the manga, south kai only appearance in littles panels .
dragon boss z wrote: And I would agree with Toriyama on that as well, but nothing compares to how bad some parts in the BoG and RoF arc were. Some scenes were so bad it's actually surprising they aired them and then didn't even bother to actually fix them in the blue ray release.
yes but they improve much of the plot
piccolo does not fight against shisame and the lazer that harms goku in the series was in the base state, it gave more prominence to tagoma as wanted by the author in principle etc.

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