Physical Strength In DB

[theherodjl]

Yeah, Goku struggled to lift 40 tons in base despite the fact that when he was a kid he could push a boulder that weighed a great deal more than 40 tons but is it necessarily an inconsistency?
We know that whenever Goku, Vegeta, or even Yamcha(in filler scenes) wanted to boost their battle powers they would train with greater gravity and/or with weights and of course they would become more physically powerful in that aspect however...that can't mean it all went towards their physical strength alone. The point I want to make is that their speed, durability, stamina, reflexes, and Ki skills increased as well whenever they trained this way so do you believe that instead of gaining all that power towards their strength alone it spread out to fill up all their stats instead and that may be why they don't suddenly become as strong as Superman just from one training session?
Martial artists and body builders are two different forms of gaining strength, while martial artists train to increase their offensive capabilities body builders train just to lift heavier and heavier things, Bruce Lee might have been one of the greatest trained and conditioned fighters in human history but when it came to weight lifting he wasn't pushing anything heavier than what you or I could lift. Goku only really trained his body once to be able to push a massive boulder like the one he did as a kid and then spent the rest of his life spreading out his training so as not to make his muscles be the sole thing that gained strength.
Do you suppose he merely lost that type of boulder-pushing power from not keeping up on it and may explain why he would struggle with 40 tons as an adult? Does it make sense?

[Saiyan007]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

[theherodjl]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Did they really? Because I know that Beerus is at least a star buster with his massive Ki blasts but possessing physical blows capable of wrecking a universe when in BOG he was at 70% power and his blows didn't bust the Earth seems rather fishy to me.

[pacz360]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Did they really? Because I know that Beerus is at least a star buster with his massive Ki blasts but possessing physical blows capable of wrecking a universe when in BOG he was at 70% power and his blows didn't bust the Earth seems rather fishy to me.

It's fiction pal there was a feat of kingdom come supes punch with force to destroy a planet on superboy and yetplanet still there plus who cares about the 40 tons crap it was inconsistent plus in super goku lifted a bunch of weights on a planet 10x earth's gravity

[theherodjl]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Did they really? Because I know that Beerus is at least a star buster with his massive Ki blasts but possessing physical blows capable of wrecking a universe when in BOG he was at 70% power and his blows didn't bust the Earth seems rather fishy to me.

It's fiction pal there was a feat of kingdom come supes punch with force to destroy a planet on superboy and yetplanet still there plus who cares about the 40 tons crap it was inconsistent plus in super goku lifted a bunch of weights on a planet 10x earth's gravity

My point can prove how during that time, the feat may not have been inconsistent also due to the fact that Goku was lifting an object AND was trying to hold himself up in the air rather than stand and push something on the ground.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Funny how whenever they show less impressive strength everyone is so quick to dismiss it, but whenever they show more impressive strength you act like that cancels everything else and should be the default.

You want the real truth? They're exactly as strong or as weak as the plot dictates they have to be. And that changes a lot.

[Blackstripe]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Funny how whenever they show less impressive strength everyone is so quick to dismiss it, but whenever they show more impressive strength you act like that cancels everything else and should be the default.

You want the real truth? They're exactly as strong or as weak as the plot dictates they have to be. And that changes a lot.

Well, so is the likes of Superman, but people do the exact same thing there. It's not like selective canon is something exclusive to the Dragon Ball fandom.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku and Beerus in the DBS manga chapter 4 threatened to destroy the entire universe with just thier physical blows

At this point I could care less about how much they lift

Funny how whenever they show less impressive strength everyone is so quick to dismiss it, but whenever they show more impressive strength you act like that cancels everything else and should be the default.

You want the real truth? They're exactly as strong or as weak as the plot dictates they have to be. And that changes a lot.

Well, so is the likes of Superman, but people do the exact same thing there. It's not like selective canon is something exclusive to the Dragon Ball fandom.

Did I deny that?

[Blackstripe]

Did I deny that?

No, but it seems odd to call our specific fandom out on it, as if it's something we're known for doing above any other "power fantasy" genre.

[theherodjl]

Did I deny that?

No, but it seems odd to call our specific fandom out on it, as if it's something we're known for doing above any other "power fantasy" genre.

He didn't, you're stating that.
The fact is that this low-end feat is pretty quick to be dismissed because of unproven statements supposedly 'confirming' that the characters stand on a level far too high for this to be true, the reality of it puts a more interesting perspective of the strength of DB characters at least in my opinion.

[Birusu16]

The 40 ton issue is lifting strength anyway. That's much different than striking strength. Not to mention Goku was shown lifting far more than 40 tons in episode 2 (or maybe it was 3) of Super, so it's a moot point anyway.

[Raizel]

They can lift anything long as plot requires them to lift.

[Blackstripe]

We must also keep in mind that we don't what the gravity was where Gokuu was training. If it was 10x like on Kaio's planet, it would've been equal to 400 tons.

[Polyphase Avatron]

They can lift anything long as plot requires them to lift.

I said that already

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I remember Toriyama saying in a interviewing something about "physical body has a limit but with the use of Ki you can break and surpass those limits and without it you could not" or some like that.

So physical strength in DB would work something like this:

1. No ki = "X" tons of strenght (for example sake, Goku´s 40 tons)
2. Put some Ki into the mix and your muscles are strong enought to pirce the body of an alien that withstands +++Multi planet busting energy or strong enought to stop the attacks from the guy that killed said alien with only 1 finger.

[Blackstripe]

I remember Toriyama saying in a interviewing something about "physical body has a limit but with the use of Ki you can break and surpass those limits and without it you could not" or some like that.

So physical strength in DB would work something like this:

1. No ki = "X" tons of strenght (for example sake, Goku´s 40 tons)
2. Put some Ki into the mix and your muscles are strong enought to pirce the body of an alien that withstands +++Multi planet busting energy or strong enought to stop the attacks from the guy that killed said alien with only 1 finger.

This is very likely so.

Ki is everything in Dragon Ball. Without it, you are neither strong nor durable, relatively speaking. You need it for both offense and defense.

[MisterGuyMan]

The 40 ton thing was because Goku was flying.

It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 3&start=80

Also:

Bukujutsu
First Appearance: Chapter 119
Category: ki manipulation
People: Krillin, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Son Goten, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Videl, others
Special Characteristics: As a unique technique of the Tsuru-sen School, it seems that Tsuru-sennin is the one who thought it up. By emitting ki from the entire body, one moves as if fluttering through the air. It’s a basic ki manipulation technique, on par with the ki blast. Like Videl, anyone can do it merely be learning how to use ki. Also, Krillin and Goku learned this technique through self study. The speed the user moves through the air with Bukujutsu is related to their level of skill and the extent of their ki. Those aliens who can fly, such as Piccolo, move through the sky using the same principle as Bukujutsu. Kame-sennin never used this technique, perhaps because he had Kinto-un and Baby Gamera. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)

Dragonball flight is Ki manipulation to make your own body flutter through the air. It's not like a raw strength feat. Flight is something that is imparted to make your BODY flutter through air, not your clothes or external weights.

Also here's where Goku is now with his raw physical power:
(scanlation removed)