The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

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Speedster
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The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:10 am

Before starting I would like to say that I consider many of the dates in the guides, Dragonball wikia and Kanzenshuu wrong. I base my calculations strictly on the manga and the anime material which in my book are the highest and second highest level of canon. If something in the guides contradicts the source material (manga/anime) unless it is stated explicitly by Toriyama or officially stated by Toei Animation to be a retcon it is disregarded.

Ok here we go…

1. In the manga it is stated that Cell came from age 788 (stated (scanlation link removed)) and it was stated to be three years further in the future from where Trunks left. And that was 3 years from the year Trunks left the second time he time travelled back. And we can be absolutely sure about it as we know that Cell killed Trunks and stole his time machine after the second time he travelled back in time – and that was three years after his first time travel. This means that the (latest) year Trunks travelled back in time for the second time was age 785.

2. The first time Trunks appeared it was from three years earlier than his second appearance. So he first travelled from age 782.

3. The first time Trunks appeared in the present he said that he came from 20 years in the future (stated in the manga (scanlation link removed) and repeated again (scanlation link removed)).

4. So year 788 was 20+3+3=26 years from when Trunks first appeared and killed Mecha Freeza. So Trunks killed Mecha Freeza in age 788-26=762.

5. So the Androids (who appeared 3 years later) appeared in age 765. And the Buu saga which takes place 7 years later takes place in age 772.

Anyway here is the TRUE timeline.
1. Goku’s birth --- Age 737
2. 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai --- Age 749
3. 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai --- Age 752
4. 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai --- Age 755
5. Gohan’s birth --- May 756
6. Raditz invades --- Age 760
7. Battles with Nappa and Vegeta --- Age 761
8. Namek/Freeza saga – Age 761
9. Trunks appears --- Age 762
10. Trunks birth --- Age 764
11. Androids appear --- Age 765
12. Cell games --- Age 765
13. Buu arc --- Age 772

And if you want further proof here it is: Gohan was stated to be 4 at the start of Z (stated (scanlation link removed)) and 16 years old at the start of the Buu arc (stated (scanlation link removed)). Of course physically he was 17 due the year he spent in RoSaT.

Many people and the wiki wrongly state that Gohan was born in 757 and the Buu arc took place in 774. But that would make Gohan 17 and physically 18 which is a direct contradiction to the manga. They also state that the Cell games took place in age 767 and Trunks appears in 764. That would make Cell coming from Age 790 which is wrong too. I don't know from where you guys get that the Cell games were hosted in 767 and Buu was defeated in 774. Guides are BS...

NOTE:
And yes Goku’s age in the 21st tournament was 12 as stated in the manga. At the start of DB he was 11 towards 12 and yes the age he originally gave to Bulma as 14 was wrong as he admitted he didn't know how to count. I know many people will say this:Goku said to Bulma and Kuririn that he was 14 because Kuririn told him he was 13 himself, Goku counted and thought that it was 14 that comes before 13 instead of 12.

Now seriously the whole excuse was a poor attempt by Toriyama to cover the retconning he wanted to do in Goku’s original age. He wanted to make him to be kid instead of a teenager because of the nudity he kept making Goku show. He wanted him to be 12y.o. at the 21st tournament and 11 at the start. As simple as that. And if you want an in-universe explanation I could say that Goku thought 14 comes at two numbers before 13 instead of just one - there is a never a correct arithmetic logic in mistakes to begin with.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:07 am

2. The first time Trunks appeared it was from three years earlier than his second appearance. So he first travelled from age 782.
You're assuming that he needed to wait three years in his time, when nothing like that is actually mentioned though. The only length of time we're told he needed to wait for in his timeline was the time it takes to recharge the time machine, which Bulma, in the Trunks the Story chapter of the manga, specifically states was 8 months, so there's nothing indicating that he needed to wait three years in his time. In fact, he specifically says that, if he can live long enough for his time machine to recharge, he'll come see them again to help them battle the Jinzou-ningen.

So all that means is that 8 months passed in his time, not three years, so since we know 785 was when he made his second trip to the past, he made his first trip within 8 months of January of Age 785.
Many people and the wiki wrongly state that Gohan was born in 757 and the Buu arc took place in 774. But that would make Gohan 17 and physically 18 which is a direct contradiction to the manga.
How is that a contradiction? All that simply means is that his birthday is sometime past mid-May. He can be chronologically 16 at the very start of the Buu Saga, and then turn 17 later on that year. If his birthday were anywhere from June through December, then he could be born in age 757 and still be 16 if the Buu storyline took place in Age 774 (as it was established to have been in May of the year).

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:30 am

Speedster wrote:He wanted to make him to be kid instead of a teenager because of the nudity he kept making Goku show. He wanted him to be 12y.o. at the 21st tournament and 11 at the start. As simple as that.
I'm not sure what your basis is for this; it just comes across as "I made this up and that makes it fact". Same thing goes for the sudden change of Gohan from 3 years old to 4 years old during his first introduction - we don't know what caused/prompted it, and to assign definitive reasons based on nothing seems rather presumptuous.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:17 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Speedster wrote:I presume he wanted to make him to be kid instead of a teenager because of the nudity he kept making Goku show. He wanted him to be 12y.o. at the 21st tournament and 11 at the start. As simple as that.
I'm not sure what your basis is for this; it just comes across as "I made this up and that makes it fact". Same thing goes for the sudden change of Gohan from 3 years old to 4 years old during his first introduction - we don't know what caused/prompted it, and to assign definitive reasons based on nothing seems rather presumptuous.
Fixed that for you! I thought it was obvious that it was not an assumption but apparently it wasn't.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:37 am

Darkprince410 wrote: You're assuming that he needed to wait three years in his time, when nothing like that is actually mentioned though. The only length of time we're told he needed to wait for in his timeline was the time it takes to recharge the time machine, which Bulma, in the Trunks the Story chapter of the manga, specifically states was 8 months, so there's nothing indicating that he needed to wait three years in his time. In fact, he specifically says that, if he can live long enough for his time machine to recharge, he'll come see them again to help them battle the Jinzou-ningen.

So all that means is that 8 months passed in his time, not three years, so since we know 785 was when he made his second trip to the past, he made his first trip within 8 months of January of Age 785.
So you are suggesting that Trunks travelled from year X back in time 20 years i.e. to year X-20, he informed Goku about the Androids, then he went back to year X, waited 8 months for his time machine to recharge and then he hopped back to his time machine and travelled back in time 17 years i.e. year X-17. If so why he didn't travel straight off to year X-17 from year X-20 especially as the time machine was taking so long to charge? It would be travelling 3 years in the future plus another 17 thereafter so a total of 20 i.e. as much as would have to travel from X-20 to X in total. After all the time machine had charge for a total 40 years trip. Also when he left to go back to his time he implied that himself was going to train as well and since he told everyone "see you in 3 years" I doubt he meant only from their perspective whilst from his only 8 months.
Contradiction? All that simply means is that his birthday is sometime past mid-May. He can be chronologically 16 at the very start of the Buu Saga, and then turn 17 later on that year. If his birthday were anywhere from June through December. He could be born in age 757 and still be 16 if the Buu storyline took place in Age 774 (as it was established to have been in May of the year).
Except that the Buu saga was like only 1.5-2 months long so in the best case scenario Gohan would be 16.8 years old and referred to as 16 which is really bad from a story-telling POV. Besides it is unlikely anyway as:
1. At the start of the arc Gohan just started school. Not seeing anyone starting school on April or March. Most likely September.
2. Gohan's birthday in the anime was during June as we know the Cell games took place on June 17th and Gohan's birthday was during the 10 day gap.

And no the new tournaments were never "established" to be in May. That could only be said for the older ones due to Piccolo's coronation on May 9th after the 22nd tournament but for the new ones and especially for the 25th there is nothing in the source material.

Furthermore:
1. Start of Z – Radditz appears

2. The Freeza arc ends about 1 year (12.5 months to be more accurate) since the start of Z
Details:
(a)Nappa and Vegeta arrived 11months later since Goku’s death
(b)After the battle Gohan recovers in the hospital (a week) and travelled to Namek 34days.
(c)There was 1 day of battles and then Goku travels for 6 days. So a week.

3. Trunks appears 1 year after the end of the Freeza arc. In total 2 years since the start of Z.
Details:
Trunks appeared when Mecha Freeza showed up. We have to determine the gap between the Freeza arc and Mecha Freeza. Since the defeat of Freeza:
(a)They waited 130 days to wish back Kuririn and Yamcha.
(b)Then waited another 130 days to wish Tien, Chiaotzu and Namekians to teleport to a new planet.
(c)Freeza appears a total of 1 year since the Freeza arc. Both Kanzenshuu’s chapter synopsis here and this manga translation here confirm this. In other words this means that Mecha Freeza appeared 105 days since the wish of the Namekians to be teleported to New Namek. It was NOT ANOTHER year on top of the 260 days.

4. The Androids appear 3 years after the first appearance of Trunks. So a total of 5 years after the start of Z.

Since Gohan at the start of Z was 4 it makes him 9 when he fought Cell. If he was born in 757 as the guides suggest then the Cell games would have taken place in age 766 and 7 years later it would be year 773 for the Buu arc. Still not 774.
Last edited by Speedster on Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by LuckyCat » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:53 am

So the million dollar question is, where do you place the events of Super, BoG, and RoF?
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:03 pm

Speedster wrote: Except that the Buu saga was like only 1.5-2 months long so in the best case scenario Gohan would be 16.8 years old and referred to as 16 which is really bad from a story-telling POV. Besides it is unlikely anyway as:
1. At the start of the arc Gohan just started school. Not seeing anyone starting school on April or March.
Actually, most schools in Japan have a trimester system, with their first semester at the beginning of April.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:36 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Actually, most schools in Japan have a trimester system, with their first semester at the beginning of April.
That is certainly interesting. You learn something every day.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:01 pm

So you are suggesting that Trunks travelled from year X back in time 20 years i.e. to year X-20, he informed Goku about the Androids, then he went back to year X, waited 8 months for his time machine to recharge and then he hopped back to his time machine and travelled back in time 17 years i.e. year X-17. If so why he didn't travel straight off to year X-17 from year X-20 especially as the time machine was taking so long to charge? It would be travelling 3 years in the future plus another 17 thereafter so a total of 20 i.e. as much as would have to travel from X-20 to X in total. After all the time machine had charge for a total 40 years trip. Also when he left to go back to his time he implied that himself was going to train as well and since he told everyone "see you in 3 years" I doubt he meant only from their perspective whilst from his only 8 months.
We don't know how the time machine works. For all we know, a round trip is purely a trip back and a trip forward, no matter how long the actual jump is. Everything that's indicated though, given the dialogue, is that Trunks needed to go back to his time to recharge, a period of time stated by Bulma to be 8 months. Then, if he lived long enough for it to recharge, he'd see them again three years later. That's the facts of the matter.
And no the new tournaments were never "established" to be in May. That could only be said for the older ones due to Piccolo's coronation on May 9th after the 22nd tournament but for the new ones and especially for the 25th there is nothing in the source material.
We do know though that the 24th Budoukai happened prior to May 26th, as it was the 24th Budoukai that Mr. Satan won that resulted in him being declared the world's champion when he arrived at the Cell Games. Since the Cell Games were on the 26th of May, we know then that the 24th Budoukai had to have been before then.
(c)Freeza appears a total of 1 year since the Freeza arc. Both Kanzenshuu’s chapter synopsis [http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-329/]here[/url] and this manga translation [url=http://www.mangahit.com/dragon-ball/329/10]here[/url/] confirm this. In other words this means that Mecha Freeza appeared 105 days since the wish of the Namekians to be teleported to New Namek. It was NOT ANOTHER year on top of the 260 days.
I don't know how you're getting that it wasn't a year on top of the 260 days, because it quite clearly is saying as such. It's one year after the wish to teleport the Namekians to New Namek.

1) Freeza is defeated near the end of Age 762.

2) 130 days later, Kuririn's soul is transferred to Earth's check-in station, he's revived, and Yamcha's revived.

2) 130 days after that, Tenshinhan and Chaozu are revived, and the Namekians are teleported to New Namek. (roughly 260 days into Age 763).

3) Around 1 year later, according to both the links you posted, Freeza makes his return appearance. This puts us roughly 260 days into Age 764, which is where the Daizenshuu puts Trunks arrival, as it lists it as occurring in August of Age 764.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:31 pm

We do know though that the 24th Budoukai happened prior to May 26th, as it was the 24th Budoukai that Mr. Satan won that resulted in him being declared the world's champion when he arrived at the Cell Games. Since the Cell Games were on the 26th of May, we know then that the 24th Budoukai had to have been before then.
Not sure from where you get the 26th of May from. The Cell games were on 17th of June. Given Cell's lack of awareness about the tournament revival Mr Satan could have been declared champion at any time prior to Imperfect Cell's appearance in early June. That can even be in June or even in April or March.
Darkprince410 wrote: I don't know how you're getting that it wasn't a year on top of the 260 days, because it quite clearly is saying as such. It's one year after the wish to teleport the Namekians to New Namek.

3) Around 1 year later, according to both the links you posted, Freeza makes his return appearance. This puts us roughly 260 days into Age 764, which is where the Daizenshuu puts Trunks arrival, as it lists it as occurring in August of Age 764.
Why do you misquote my link?
Then after another 130 days, they revived Chiaotzu with the first wish, Tenshinhan with the second, and moved the Namekians and their Dragon Balls to a new planet with the third wish. And so, about one year passed, and Son Goku still hasn’t come home. Gohan is sitting at a desk in his house wondering if maybe his father doesn’t want to return to Earth, when he suddenly feels something.
The whole way it is written was: 130 days passed, another 130 days and oh now a year has been completed and Goku still didn't show up.

Ah and according to dragonball minus Goku was 3 years old when he was sent to Earth. And according to the manga “Jaco the galactic patrolman” Bulma was 5. In other words Toriyama either willingly or not retconned Bulma’s age but re-established the 2 year difference those two were originally meant to have in Dragonball ( Goku was introduced as 14 and Bulma 16). Anyway since Goku was born in 737, Bulma was born in 735.
Now in BoGs Bulma said it was her 38th birthday. 735+38=773. Which according to MY timeline makes sense as it is within a year after the defeat of Buu which is when DB Super takes place.

And Mai saying she was 41 also makes sense as it was 773-41=732 so she was 17-18 at the start of Dragonball. Instead of 12 as some people were sarcastically suggesting...
Last edited by Speedster on Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:35 pm

Just noticing / having reported that you links go to a scanlation site. This is strictly forbidden in the community guidelines. I'll be removing those links; please refrain from posting them again.

Additionally, please dial back your own antagonistic tone. No-one's going to want to converse with you if you're just going to accuse all responses as being sarcastic.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:52 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Just noticing / having reported that you links go to a scanlation site. This is strictly forbidden in the community guidelines. I'll be removing those links; please refrain from posting them again.

Additionally, please dial back your own antagonistic tone. No-one's going to want to converse with you if you're just going to accuse all responses as being sarcastic.
I will edit these links out. But I have seen many people here posting manga images/scans. Is it allowed if these scans are re-uploaded on an image host like imgur or are they completely forbidden? I assume the latter.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Tyro » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:54 pm

A single image is probably fine if it's to make a point, especially if you're referring to the art and not the translation, but linking to a website that hosts the entire manga is strictly a no-no. Not only because it's illegal and Kanzenshuu doesn't want that kind of attention, but also because most of the scanslations for the manga are pure garbage. Only a certain scanslator whose name I won't mention should be trusted.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by B » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:10 pm

The Pilaf arc is a few weeks, maybe a month at best; I don't have everything right in front of me at the moment, and the Kame House training was an eight-month period. So, in the interest of being persnickety about timelines, you can't definitively say Goku is 11 at the beginning of the series without knowing his birth month and/or date(working backwards from the Budokai which is always in May, the Pilaf arc falls in September).

EDIT: wahaha, I am silly. The Pilaf arc is nine days.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Herms » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:34 pm

Not sure from where you get the 26th of May from. The Cell games were on 17th of June.
In the original tankoubon release of the manga, the Cell Games were said to be on the 17th of "M" (with no explanation as to what month "M" was supposed to be, though "June" would be kind of a strange guess). In the kanzenban release of the manga, this was changed to May 26th, a date that first appeared in the Daizenshuu 7 timeline and is based off the amount of time that passes between the androids' initial appearance on May 12th and the start of the Cell Games.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:42 pm

Then after another 130 days, they revived Chiaotzu with the first wish, Tenshinhan with the second, and moved the Namekians and their Dragon Balls to a new planet with the third wish. And so, about one year passed, and Son Goku still hasn’t come home. Gohan is sitting at a desk in his house wondering if maybe his father doesn’t want to return to Earth, when he suddenly feels something.
I'm not misquoting it. You're not understanding how it played out in the manga. We're explicitly told that there were the two 130 day jumps, and then later it says that a year passed, meaning a year after the last point in time mentioned.
Ah and according to dragonball minus Goku was 3 years old when he was sent to Earth. And according to the manga “Jaco the galactic patrolman” Bulma was 5. In other words Toriyama either willingly or not retconned Bulma’s age but re-established the 2 year difference those two were originally meant to have in Dragonball ( Goku was introduced as 14 and Bulma 16). Anyway since Goku was born in 737, Bulma was born in 735.
You're overlooking one crucial detail though. It's 3 years within an incubator, which doesn't necessarily mean he's actually three years old as far as Saiya-jin are concerned. Saiya-jin children may be born in-vitro or that the fertilized egg is extracted from the mother soon after conception, and in either case the embryo is grown in an incubator rather than within the mother. The Saiya-jin are a warrior race of only a few thousand, and either approach would allow the women to be able to return to action all the sooner, since they wouldn't need to carry a child to full term and become potentially cumbersome on the battlefield/risk losing the child.

For all we know, Saiya-jin don't consider a child actually born until they've left the incubator, so even though he's been in there for three years, he wasn't officially born until he left, which fits the time frame of the age difference already established between Goku and Bulma.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Herms » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Speedster wrote:I base my calculations strictly on the manga and the anime material which in my book are the highest and second highest level of canon.
This gets tricky fast. As we've seen, the date of the Cell Games is different between the tankoubon and kanzenban release of the manga. Gohan's age when he first appears was originally only 3 years old when the chapter ran in Weekly Jump, but this was changed to 4 years old for the tankoubon release. Which version of the manga counts?
Darkprince410 wrote:I'm not misquoting it. You're not understanding how it played out in the manga. We're explicitly told that there were the two 130 day jumps, and then later it says that a year passed, meaning a year after the last point in time mentioned.
Admittedly this is something that gets complicated, since while the Japanese wording is fairly straightforward, Viz translates it to make it more ambiguous, so that it's not clear if "a year has passed" refers to the time since the last wishing session, or the total time that Goku has been away. Even more confusing, the anime actually does go and make it just a year between the battle on Namek and Mecha Freeza's attack on Earth.
B wrote:The Pilaf arc is a few weeks, maybe a month at best; I don't have everything right in front of me at the moment, and the Kame House training was an eight-month period.
Yeah, Bulma says in chapter 2 that she's got only 30 days of school vacation left to find the dragon balls, so that should be the upper limit. It doesn't seem to take anywhere near that long though.

The "eight months" thing is a semi-infamous plot hole. If Goku only trains for eight months, why are the dragon balls already reactivated after the tournament? That's four extra months you either have to ignore, or somehow squeeze into the time between the end of the dragon ball hunt and Goku arriving at Kame-sennin's island, or between the end of the tournament and Goku encountering the Red Ribbon...which is quite awkward either way. Also, episode...28 or something of the anime (the filler where Pilaf first reappears) has Pilaf declare that it's been a specific number of days since he's seen Goku, but I don't remember the details.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:10 pm

I really, really don't want to be rude, but your timeline is full of problems. Even ignoring the questionable ones about interpreting different statements and how that may factor into the time that has passed for certain events, you also have basic math errors that cause the whole thing to collapse upon itself. One example, a prime example, here is Bluma...

You say Bluma is born in AGE 735 and that your age for her works out with everything, including the her 38th birthday in BOG...but according to your timeline, she would turn 16 in AGE 751, which is AFTER the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai...

You admit the DB incarnations of the Tenkaichi Budokai are held in May, with the 21st being held in AGE 749. Goku is stated in the manga to train for eight months in preparation for this tournament. That places the Pilaf material in September of AGE 748 if you follow it literally, plothole and all.

Jaco the Galactic Patrolman takes place in August and is stated to occur ten years before the "present" era at the end of the epilogue, which is set when Bluma meets Goku (AGE 748 according to your timeline). That means Jaco (and DB-) would happen in AGE 738, which throws off your ages for Bluma and Goku and basically all the other dates as well, in some way or another. Because if Bluma is literally 5 like you suggest (and not turning 6 later that year like she should be if she is 16 during Pilaf), that places her as being born in AGE 733 (should be AGE 732 to be 16 in the right year for your version). Even if you just shift her birthday back to that year though, that means for Beerus to arrive at her 38th birthday party, AGE 771, she would have to hold it before the events of your placement for the Buu Arc: AGE 772.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:31 am

Herms wrote:This gets tricky fast. As we've seen, the date of the Cell Games is different between the tankoubon and kanzenban release of the manga. Gohan's age when he first appears was originally only 3 years old when the chapter ran in Weekly Jump, but this was changed to 4 years old for the tankoubon release. Which version of the manga counts?
Herms wrote:In the kanzenban release of the manga, this was changed to May 26th, a date that first appeared in the Daizenshuu 7 timeline and is based off the amount of time that passes between the androids' initial appearance on May 12th and the start of the Cell Games.
That is actually very true but my problem with the 26th of May version is that the Androids appeared on May 12th and...
1. Goku had the heart virus attack on that day.
2. Trunks said that knowing Goku he could get well even as early as in 10 days meaning that 10 days was the best case scenario.
3. Then even if upon recovery Goku went straight to RoSaT, you had Vegeta and Trunks spending a day there and after their defeat Cell announced the Cell games to take place 10 days later.
That is at least 3 weeks since May 12th which brings us in June (June 2nd to be exact). Cell saying 17th of … had to be 17th of June and it simply took longer than 10 days for Goku to recover and/or not going to RoSaT immediately after recovering. The 26th of May on the other hand would mean that Goku recovered from the virus in less than 3 days.
Herms wrote:Admittedly this is something that gets complicated, since while the Japanese wording is fairly straightforward, Viz translates it to make it more ambiguous, so that it's not clear if "a year has passed" refers to the time since the last wishing session, or the total time that Goku has been away. Even more confusing, the anime actually does go and make it just a year between the battle on Namek and Mecha Freeza's attack on Earth.
Thanks for the clarification. I think the most intuitive way to interpret it is that a year had been completed as the anime did anyway.
Herms wrote:Also, episode...28 or something of the anime (the filler where Pilaf first reappears) has Pilaf declare that it's been a specific number of days since he's seen Goku, but I don't remember the details.
Pilaf said 1 year and 15 days.
Darkprince410 wrote:You're overlooking one crucial detail though. It's 3 years within an incubator, which doesn't necessarily mean he's actually three years old as far as Saiya-jin are concerned. Saiya-jin children may be born in-vitro or that the fertilized egg is extracted from the mother soon after conception, and in either case the embryo is grown in an incubator rather than within the mother. The Saiya-jin are a warrior race of only a few thousand, and either approach would allow the women to be able to return to action all the sooner, since they wouldn't need to carry a child to full term and become potentially cumbersome on the battlefield/risk losing the child.

For all we know, Saiya-jin don't consider a child actually born until they've left the incubator, so even though he's been in there for three years, he wasn't officially born until he left, which fits the time frame of the age difference already established between Goku and Bulma.

Well that theory is quite far-fetched. The most reasonable thing to say is that babies were born normally and were just placed in the incubator so that once taken out they would be fully ready to start training. Besides Bardock asks her about Kakarot suggesting he considers him an existing person rather than an embryo. He also goes on and says “he has grown up!” suggesting he saw him already as a newborn or at least that he knows how newborns look like and Goku was now a toddler. And Gine was pretty much stated to be useless as a fighter and it is implied that Bardock last saw her since her baby delivery or pregnancy and that she resided on Planet Vegeta ever since having a supplementary role in the Saiyan army like … cooking. I would also guess that the role of females in the Saiyan army was never important in the battlefield given Vegeta’s general view of women.
B wrote:The Pilaf arc is a few weeks, maybe a month at best; I don't have everything right in front of me at the moment, and the Kame House training was an eight-month period. So, in the interest of being persnickety about timelines, you can't definitively say Goku is 11 at the beginning of the series without knowing his birth month and/or date(working backwards from the Budokai which is always in May, the Pilaf arc falls in September). EDIT: wahaha, I am silly. The Pilaf arc is nine days.
I never implied that Goku was EXACTLY 11 years old at the start of Dragonball. He could well be 11.6. All we know is that 8-9 months later he would be “12” though by that we could perfectly mean “12.3”.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:You say Bluma is born in AGE 735 and that your age for her works out with everything..
Not everything. I said that Bulma's age was retconned by Toriyama and that the creators of the new movie used her new year of birth.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:You admit the DB incarnations of the Tenkaichi Budokai are held in May, with the 21st being held in AGE 749. Goku is stated in the manga to train for eight months in preparation for this tournament. That places the Pilaf material in September of AGE 748 if you follow it literally, plothole and all.
No. I don't admit that all the previous incarnations of the Tenkaichi Budokai were necessarily held in May. I said that at least for the previous incarnations (referring to the 22nd and 23rd) one could reasonably speculate so. For the 21st and 22nd given that the tournaments were originally held every 5 years and that was changed, the date/month could have changed as well.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Jaco the Galactic Patrolman takes place in August and is stated to occur ten years before the "present" era at the end of the epilogue, which is set when Bluma meets Goku (AGE 748 according to your timeline). That means Jaco (and DB-) would happen in AGE 738, which throws off your ages for Bluma and Goku and basically all the other dates as well, in some way or another.
It was said to take place ABOUT 10 years before the "present". Vague enough and it could just mean *roughly* a decade ago i.e. it could well mean 8.5-11.5 years. Here is an example: If I am talking about when Facebook first appeared then from the top of my head I would say about 10 years ago – in fact it appeared in Feb 2004 so it is actually 11.5 years. What we know for sure is that Bulma said she was 5 (though she could be 5.2 it doesn't really matter) and from DB Minus Goku was 3. We also know that Goku was born in Age 737. The rest is correct maths.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:22 am

2. Trunks said that knowing Goku he could get well even as early as in 10 days meaning that 10 days was the best case scenario.
Unless I'm forgetting the wording on it, it's not indicated that 10 days would be some special best-case scenario for Goku, but rather that usually only takes about ten days for the medicine to be effective. In fact though, we see it stated that, on the third day from when everything started to happen with the Jinzou-ningen, Goku recovered from the disease.
Thanks for the clarification. I think the most intuitive way to interpret it is that a year had been completed as the anime did anyway.
Except that the manga's wording is more direct, and the Viz translation and anime's take is the one that is inaccurate compared to the original manga's.
Well that theory is quite far-fetched. The most reasonable thing to say is that babies were born normally and were just placed in the incubator so that once taken out they would be fully ready to start training. Besides Bardock asks her about Kakarot suggesting he considers him an existing person rather than an embryo. He also goes on and says “he has grown up!” suggesting he saw him already as a newborn or at least that he knows how newborns look like and Goku was now a toddler. And Gine was pretty much stated to be useless as a fighter and it is implied that Bardock last saw her since her baby delivery or pregnancy and that she resided on Planet Vegeta ever since having a supplementary role in the Saiyan army like … cooking. I would also guess that the role of females in the Saiyan army was never important in the battlefield given Vegeta’s general view of women.
Not really. He physically was still young enough appearance wise that, according to Roshi, Gohan described him as an infant. If Bardock had last seen him as an embryo, and now sees him as he is in the chamber, he'd still say that he's grown up, and given that Gine comments about him having Bardock's hair, that suggests that Bardock's never seen him with hair prior to that moment.

Vegeta's view on women doesn't really hold much weight, given that he shows that exact same superiority complex to just about everyone. Besides, he's a prince, and was most likely taught that women should be subservient to men anyway. However, given Toriyama's statement in the March 2014 issue of Saikyo Jump, we can reasonably assume that women are perfectly capable of being warriors if they're cut out for it, and only those that aren't have to do other things. Even though she's established not to be fit to be a warrior, Gine having Goku in an incubator since conception would still be feasible, since that means she'd be able to get back to work in the meat processing service all the sooner, rather than being encumbered by pregnancy.
Not everything. I said that Bulma's age was retconned by Toriyama and that the creators of the new movie used her new year of birth.
Or that it was a remnant fact from the original storyline, which was lined up to take place during the time frame of Kuririn and #18's wedding before the events of the Buu Saga, and that it somehow just slipped through unaltered when Toriyama changed the story up to take place during Bulma's birthday 4 years after the events of the Buu Saga.

From Yusuke Watanabe's interview for DVD & Blu-ray Vision, April 2013 Issue:
Was having characters old and new all together an idea that was there from the start?

I thought I’d do a story where the enemy appears at a party on Earth when Goku’s not there, and there’d be big trouble; in the original plot, I wrote Kuririn and No. 18’s wedding, but in the story that came back from Toriyama-sensei, it had changed to Bulma’s birthday party. I think, with regards to Kuririn and No. 18’s wedding, it’s probably something that he wants all the fans to imagine for themselves.
No. I don't admit that all the previous incarnations of the Tenkaichi Budokai were necessarily held in May. I said that at least for the previous incarnations (referring to the 22nd and 23rd) one could reasonably speculate so. For the 21st and 22nd given that the tournaments were originally held every 5 years and that was changed, the date/month could have changed as well.
TheDevilsCorpse specifically said the Dragon Ball era Budoukai, as in the 21st-23rd.

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