The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:08 am

Darkprince410 wrote:As said before, the dialogue you're using to draw that it takes 3 years is inexact, and can be taken just as easily that three years past, and in those three years, the time machine was charged. It doesn't explicitly state that it took three years for the machine to charge, whereas Bulma's statement from the special chapter explicitly establishes that it was 8 months.

...even in the version of the narrator's dialogue you gave, it doesn't explicitly state that it took 3 years to charge it up, just that it finally charged up in three years time. The two situations are very different, with the latter leaving it open that it took an unspecified amount of time to charge it up, but that they just waited 3 years to return to the past again.
The sentence is very clear and not vague at all and besides Toriyama is a simple writer. Dragonball in general is a simple show. When something is stated it is what it is unless it is later implied it isn't or later changed/retconned either for plot purposes or for correcting a mistake or due to editorial influences or whatever. For example when someone is bluffing like e.g. Vegeta against Android 20 it was made clear it was a bluff later. Or when ideas/opinions are expressed through characters like Yamcha implying Kuririn is the strongest earthling it means that Kuririn IS the strongest earthling. You could argue “but yeah Yamcha was talking to Kuririn’s daughter and was lying” or “but yeah Yamcha didn't train for 7 years and he was not a reliable source” or “but yeah Yamcha didn't see Tenshinhan for a while to gauge his power” and other similar explanations but Toriyama in an interview clear cut stated Kuririn is the strongest which again proves that whenever in Dragonball something is stated even in a not 100% proven/certain way unless it is altered later on it actually is the in-universe reality. That applies to a number of other stated things like for instance Cell saying he was capable to destroy the solar system. Well he WAS…
Who knows the reason why Cell's timeline Trunks decided to go back again three years after the relative defeat of #17 and #18?
Well I know...it was because he had to wait 3 years for the time machine to get charged...
As was implied in Trunks' time, perhaps Trunks wanted to work on helping to rebuild everything, and then, once things really got underway, and he felt that everything was well on its way to being restored, he could take another trip to the past for some unspecified amount of time. He wanted to get the process of rebuilding underway, so it would make sense for him to want to work on that first, and then take a trip to the past once all was situated in his timeline.
Except that if the time-machine worked as you suggested he could simply land to the point in the future he left and lose no time from the rebuilding process at all. And even if he couldn't what would it take at most anyway? A day or two? Hardly a waste of time.
We don't know how time travel works to assume it works like that. For all we know, each timeline has some form of "signature" to it, and time travel back and forth involves locking onto the signature of the desired timeline and traveling back to it, before traveling forward to the home timeline.
Time-travel can work in many ways but the one I explained is the ONLY one that does not create the paradox I described in this earlier post
It's the one location and time that Bulma, for certain, knew where and when Goku would be.
No she also knew he would be at his house at any other later point.
Besides, given that Trunks' calculations on when Goku would arrive was based on what information Bulma would have given him, and that Trunks didn't know about Goku's ability to teleport, we can actually assume that, for whatever reason, Bulma (and potentially the others) weren't there to witness Goku taking on Freeza and Cold. Trunks was under the impression that Goku arrived to stop Freeza and Cold using his space pod (hence why he stepped in when he thought Goku would get there too late), and Bulma clearly didn't know about the Shunkan Idou (or for whatever reason, never told Trunks, despite it being important).

Nevertheless, according to Trunks, his arrival when he did was because he had intended to meet Goku privately at that time, and it was only due to perceiving that Goku would be late to stop Freeza and Cold that he stepped in.
The events of the main timeline were not meant to alter completely prior to Trunks’ journey. It wouldn't make any sense as like in the main timeline the Z fighters could still sense Freeza’s approaching Ki and go there to confront him. Remember that the battle had to happen when Trunks appeared as Trunks said he was expecting Goku to be there to take on Freeza and King Cold. He didn't expect the battle to start 2 hours later (Trunks just calculated the 2 hours when was in the main timeline – possibly by tracking the spaceships or Goku's/Freeza's Ki) and it doesn’t make sense for Freeza to have had different plans in the original timeline from those expressed in the main one. Had in the original timeline Goku arrived using the spaceship instead of instant transmission, Freeza as planned would arrive to Earth 2 hours earlier and kill the population to demoralise Goku – something that we know for a fact that didn't happen in the original timeline. Therefore Goku did use IT to arrive on time and the most logical thing to say is that when the Z fighters arrived in the place, Goku was already there battling with Freeza – that is why Bulma was unaware of Goku’s ability to teleport.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:43 am

The sentence is very clear and not vague at all and besides Toriyama is a simple writer. Dragonball in general is a simple show. When something is stated it is what it is unless it is later implied it isn't or later changed/retconned either for plot purposes or for correcting a mistake or due to editorial influences or whatever. For example when someone is bluffing like e.g. Vegeta against Android 20 it was made clear it was a bluff later. Or when ideas/opinions are expressed through characters like Yamcha implying Kuririn is the strongest earthling it means that Kuririn IS the strongest earthling. You could argue “but yeah Yamcha was talking to Kuririn’s daughter and was lying” or “but yeah Yamcha didn't train for 7 years and he was not a reliable source” or “but yeah Yamcha didn't see Tenshinhan for a while to gauge his power” and other similar explanations but Toriyama in an interview clear cut stated Kuririn is the strongest which again proves that whenever in Dragonball something is stated even in a not 100% proven/certain way unless it is altered later on it actually is the in-universe reality. That applies to a number of other stated things like for instance Cell saying he was capable to destroy the solar system. Well he WAS…
Except that it isn't clear at all. You want it to be clear cut because it supports your theory, but the truth of the matter is that it can be taken in multiple ways. You yourself even gave a potential reason as to why he waited for three years before returning, as you commented about a rebuilt laboratory and power supply network. For all we know, Trunks didn't even bother to start charging the time machine again until after the lab and everything was already rebuilt/being rebuilt.

Your three year figure would be valid only if we knew for certain that he started charging the machine the moment that he got back from the past, but we don't know that. You can assume it all you want, but without a direct statement, it remains an inexact figure. However, Bulma's statement in the special chapter is an exact figure, because she is referring specifically to the amount of time it took to charge the time machine.
Well I know...it was because he had to wait 3 years for the time machine to get charged...
Again, the statement is vague and inexact.
No she also knew he would be at his house at any other later point.
And yet it was clear that she chose that spot for Trunks to meet Goku, and it was only upon Trunks stepping in to stop Freeza and Cold, thus revealing himself to the others, that he felt he had altered the past more than he wanted.
The events of the main timeline were not meant to alter completely prior to Trunks’ journey. It wouldn't make any sense as like in the main timeline the Z fighters could still sense Freeza’s approaching Ki and go there to confront him. Remember that the battle had to happen when Trunks appeared as Trunks said he was expecting Goku to be there to take on Freeza and King Cold. He didn't expect the battle to start 2 hours later (Trunks just calculated the 2 hours when was in the main timeline – possibly by tracking the spaceships or Goku's/Freeza's Ki) and it doesn’t make sense for Freeza to have had different plans in the original timeline from those expressed in the main one. Had in the original timeline Goku arrived using the spaceship instead of instant transmission, Freeza as planned would arrive to Earth 2 hours earlier and kill the population to demoralise Goku – something that we know for a fact that didn't happen in the original timeline. Therefore Goku did use IT to arrive on time and the most logical thing to say is that when the Z fighters arrived in the place, Goku was already there battling with Freeza – that is why Bulma was unaware of Goku’s ability to teleport.
Given that Trunks indicates his presence alone altered the timeline from what transpired in his, Cell's presence in the present timeline (having arrived a year prior to Trunks' first visit) could have caused an unseen deviation that made the Z Senshi go to investigate Freeza and Cold's arrival (or at the very least, make Bulma want to go see). Trunks' calculations on when and where Goku would arrive were based on when his ship arrived in the future, and if the events of Trunks' time played out the same way they did in the present, just with Goku arriving with Shunkan Idou to stop Freeza, then Bulma of Trunks' time should have known about Shunkan Idou if she were there to witness it all as she had in the present timeline.

After all, Vegeta and the others would have still inquired as to what happened on Namek and how he escaped, and more importantly it would have been asked how he managed to get to the battle in time without a ship, since it wouldn't have landed for another few hours. One can only logically assume that, for whatever reason, none of the Z Senshi (or Bulma, for that matter) went to investigate Freeza's arrival, as that's the only real way that Trunks being oblivious to Goku's ability to use Shunkan Idou would make sense.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:25 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:Except that it isn't clear at all. You want it to be clear cut because it supports your theory, but the truth of the matter is that it can be taken in multiple ways. You yourself even gave a potential reason as to why he waited for three years before returning, as you commented about a rebuilt laboratory and power supply network. For all we know, Trunks didn't even bother to start charging the time machine again until after the lab and everything was already rebuilt/being rebuilt.

Your three year figure would be valid only if we knew for certain that he started charging the machine the moment that he got back from the past, but we don't know that. You can assume it all you want, but without a direct statement, it remains an inexact figure. However, Bulma's statement in the special chapter is an exact figure, because she is referring specifically to the amount of time it took to charge the time machine.
Except that it is clear as day and if I wanted to be equally pedantic and play with the words like you do I could say that your quoted statement from future Bulma is not 100% definitive either. That statement was for the first journey only. You just assumed it took the same amount of time to charge the machine for the second journey but we don't know the damage inflicted to the network and the lab between the first and the second journey. But we do know though that the city was rebuilt after the second time-travel so the network and the lab were in better shape for the third recharge than they were for the second. Certainly not in worst shape anyway.

Also as I said earlier if he could just hop to any point in the new timeline without waiting for it to unfold from that point onwards then (besides the paradox I explained several times) he could go straight to 3 years later in the new timeline without the need to return to his own and wait for his time machine to re-charge. When I brought this up you supported that the machine may require the same amount of charge for any journey regardless of years travelled but the manga makes it clear that for a bigger time journey the machine requires more charge and pretty much that the charge of the time-machine directly translates into travelling years.
And yet it was clear that she chose that spot for Trunks to meet Goku, and it was only upon Trunks stepping in to stop Freeza and Cold, thus revealing himself to the others, that he felt he had altered the past more than he wanted.
And that should make you wonder about the reason. And the only really logical reason was that Trunks would have to wait 3 years for the time machine to be charged for the return journey and since he wanted attend the fight himself he had to warn Goku and give him the medicine 3 years before the fight took place.
Trunks' calculations on when and where Goku would arrive were based on when his ship arrived in the future
We don't know this. I could argue he had a radar in his time-machine similar to that of Freeza's spaceship.
and if the events of Trunks' time played out the same way they did in the present, just with Goku arriving with Shunkan Idou to stop Freeza, then Bulma of Trunks' time should have known about Shunkan Idou if she were there to witness it all as she had in the present timeline. After all, Vegeta and the others would have still inquired as to what happened on Namek and how he escaped, and more importantly it would have been asked how he managed to get to the battle in time without a ship, since it wouldn't have landed for another few hours.
Trunks not knowing about the IT could simply be because the Z fighters and Bulma arrived there after Goku started battling with Freeza. After the fight Goku might have been hungry and went to his house for food without Bulma. There are myriads of ways for such a detail to escape from Bulma.
Given that Trunks indicates his presence alone altered the timeline from what transpired in his, Cell's presence in the present timeline (having arrived a year prior to Trunks' first visit) could have caused an unseen deviation that made the Z Senshi go to investigate Freeza and Cold's arrival (or at the very least, make Bulma want to go see). One can only logically assume that, for whatever reason, none of the Z Senshi (or Bulma, for that matter) went to investigate Freeza's arrival, as that's the only real way that Trunks being oblivious to Goku's ability to use Shunkan Idou would make sense.
It takes a lot to assume that an event that didn't interfere with anything would cause changes in the personalities and behaviour of people - especially so may different people...

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:40 pm

Except that it is clear as day and if I wanted to be equally pedantic and play with the words like you do I could say that your quoted statement from future Bulma is not 100% definitive either. That statement was for the first journey only. You just assumed it took the same amount of time to charge the machine for the second journey but we don't know the damage inflicted to the network and the lab between the first and the second journey. But we do know though that the city was rebuilt after the second time-travel so the network and the lab were in better shape for the third recharge than they were for the second. Certainly not in worst shape anyway.
Nevertheless, we have an exact statement indicating it's 8 months and an inexact statement, one that requires a lot more "ifs" and other uncertainties to make it work, of three years.

Additionally, your paradox only becomes an issue if time travel works the way you believe it does. It'd only be a paradox if your scenario actually happened and proved it to be the case, but since we know so little about how the time traveling works, it could easily work the way I've described it without any sort of paradoxical issues whatsoever. Simply assuming it has to work one way because of a hypothetical paradox that isn't mentioned or even suggested in the original work isn't a valid argument.
Trunks not knowing about the IT could simply be because the Z fighters and Bulma arrived there after Goku started battling with Freeza. After the fight Goku might have been hungry and went to his house for food without Bulma. There are myriads of ways for such a detail to escape from Bulma.
Which again would deviate from what happened in the main timeline. Vegeta and the others were all essentially right there, and the moment they sensed Trunks' ki (which they didn't realize at the time wasn't Goku's), they went in closer to investigate. Besides, the moment after he beat them and then came over to see his friends, don't you think he would have been asked the same series of questions about how he managed to get off Namek, not to mention how he managed to get to Earth without a ship of his own?

It raises even more questions to assume that they were there and somehow Shunkan Idou just wasn't mentioned than to assume that, for whatever reason, they didn't come to investigate what transpired.
It takes a lot to assume that an event that didn't interfere with anything would cause changes in the personalities and behaviour of people - especially so may different people...
It's called the Butterfly effect. The mere fact that Cell, a temporal anomaly that shouldn't exist at that point in time, arrived caused ripples that changed and altered how events played out. Trunks even indicates that it was Cell that must have been responsible for changing events so much, when he realizes that the time machine Cell used arrived a year prior to Trunks' first visit.

Between Cell's arrival and Trunks' arrival, Gero opted not to release #17 and #18 immediately on May 12th, instead opting to attack the island with himself and #19 instead. That alone would indicate a considerable shift in decision making for seemingly no reason, especially since Gero would have been completely oblivious to any of the other events that transpired during those years.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:Nevertheless, we have an exact statement indicating it's 8 months and an inexact statement, one that requires a lot more "ifs" and other uncertainties to make it work, of three years.
Exact? How is it exact if it doesn't exactly refer to the second time travel? Sorry but it wasn't me that started playing with the words.
but since we know so little about how the time traveling works, it could easily work the way I've described it without any sort of paradoxical issues whatsoever.
But you haven't provided ANY explanation whatsoever that works all the time without any sort of paradoxical issues. You still fail to explain what would happen if Trunks travelled to another point in time later in the future if as you suggest there was a predetermined timeline to arrive at.
Additionally, your paradox only becomes an issue if time travel works the way you believe it does. It'd only be a paradox if your scenario actually happened and proved it to be the case,
So you finally admit that this scenario wasn’t possible to happen. Because if it could happen, it would have been a paradox.
Vegeta and the others were all essentially right there, and the moment they sensed Trunks' ki (which they didn't realize at the time wasn't Goku's), they went in closer to investigate.
Exactly. They would have sensed Goku instead....and that would be after him appearing. Fits perfectly.
Besides, the moment after he beat them and then came over to see his friends, don't you think he would have been asked the same series of questions about how he managed to get off Namek, not to mention how he managed to get to Earth without a ship of his own? It raises even more questions to assume that they were there and somehow Shunkan Idou just wasn't mentioned than to assume that, for whatever reason, they didn't come to investigate what transpired.
We don't know how Goku would have killed Freeza and King Cold, how long it would have taken him given that he was likely to allow them reaching their maximum power, what would have happened thereafter and who attended the fight until the end. It is perfectly possible that he wasn’t asked all those questions but only some of them or that he was asked those questions elsewhere with Bulma not present. There are various explanations to even consider the fact that Trunks’ was unaware of Goku’s IT as an issue.
It's called the Butterfly effect. The mere fact that Cell, a temporal anomaly that shouldn't exist at that point in time, arrived caused ripples that changed and altered how events played out. Trunks even indicates that it was Cell that must have been responsible for changing events so much, when he realizes that the time machine Cell used arrived a year prior to Trunks' first visit.
Yet my explanation makes the least amount of assumptions and doesn't change personalities. Yours requires a lot more "ifs" and other uncertainties to make it work...(just remembering someone telling that to me...)

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:22 pm

This constant "My explanation makes sense" is getting a bit ridiculous. Clearly it does not, because various members are coming back with logical and worthwhile explanations.

If you're not willing to have an actual conversation, then all you're here to do is preach. No-one's interested in that, so please re-evaluate your tactics.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:01 pm

VegettoEX wrote:This constant "My explanation makes sense" is getting a bit ridiculous. Clearly it does not, because various members are coming back with logical and worthwhile explanations.
The fact that other members (not various by the way - mainly just one) provide alternative worthwhile explanations, doesn’t imply that mine do not make sense though. But I will re-evaluate my tactics as you suggested - I will stop being thought-provoking and stop providing counter-arguments. I guess that way I won't be perceived as a preacher and everyone will be happy. :thumbup:

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Darkprince410 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:31 pm

Exact? How is it exact if it doesn't exactly refer to the second time travel? Sorry but it wasn't me that started playing with the words.
It's still the only figure ever mentioned specifically referring to how long it takes for the time machine to charge. The three year figure you're going off of is simply that three years passed between when Trunks is last shown and when he is most recently shown, and in that time, the time machine has recharged. It doesn't indicate whether it took the full three years, or whether Trunks just opted not to start recharging it as soon as he came back from the past, as he had no immediate need to go to the past again (rather, he wanted to focus on helping to rebuild civilization in his time).

It would be like saying "One week later. The bedroom is finally clean." That can just as easily be interpreted that one week passed from when things were last "visited" and that, in that time, the room was cleaned. It doesn't specifically and solely mean that it took a full week to clean the room.
So you finally admit that this scenario wasn’t possible to happen. Because if it could happen, it would have been a paradox.
No, I'm not saying that it wasn't possible for it to happen. I'm saying that, unless it actually came about and was found to be a paradox, then assuming that a paradox would form unless time travel adhered to the way you're describing it is irrational. You're essentially trying to use nothing to prove your point, because it was never shown to happen, nor is it ever shown or suggested to even potentially happen at all.
Yet my explanation makes the least amount of assumptions and doesn't change personalities. Yours requires a lot more "ifs" and other uncertainties to make it work...(just remembering someone telling that to me...)
Yours assumes that they would just randomly completely ignore the fact that Goku arrived without a space ship, and then Bulma gave Trunks calculations on Goku's arrival based on where and when the ship landed. It wouldn't make any sense for them to all be there and somehow ignore that something is amiss with Goku's arrival, and then find out later that he got there before his ship does without finding out why.

Additionally, Bulma clearly assumed that Goku's arrival on Earth from his return trip from Namek was the safest place for Trunks to meet him. She gave him the coordinates for where he'd land, and clearly Trunks planned for that particular spot and event, since he outright stated that it was only his stepping in to stop Freeza and Cold unnecessarily that caused him to be exposed.

Whereas, with the idea that Cell's arrival influenced things, we have Trunks specifically stating that it was Cell's arrival, on top of his own, that caused time to change from how he knows it. It's not stated how or why Cell's arrival caused changes, but Trunks affirms that they did cause changes that resulted in changes in decisions (Gero's simply being one that was confirmed).

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:05 am

Speedster wrote:But I will re-evaluate my tactics as you suggested - I will stop being thought-provoking and stop providing counter-arguments. I guess that way I won't be perceived as a preacher and everyone will be happy. :thumbup:
Indignant/sarcastic responses won't get you anywhere with either the moderation team or the rest of the community. You're clearly not looking for a conversation either out of me or anyone else here.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Kuririn Fan » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:42 pm

The Majin Boo Arc takes place in Age 774, 18's result in the punching machine is a reference to that. You can easily calculate the rest from there.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Regarding Dragonball Super: The Elder Kaioshin said at the end of episode 3 that since Beerus had awaken he destroyed 8.5 planets in half a day (apparently the half planet being the one he destroyed in the first episode). So episodes 1-3 took place in one day and since Beerus left his castle to visit Goku at the end of episode 3 it means that episodes 1-14 all took place in like 24 hours! Episodes 1 and 2 are definitely on the same day as Goku is still with his farmer clothes at Kaio's. Episodes 1 and 2 both show a sunset but this can be attributed to different timezones I guess. What bugs me is that Bulma's birthday party had to be at least on the following day and nothing actually adds up well as even a small time gap (of a week at least for Bulma to prepare the party) was implied. Am I missing something?

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by BrolyLSSJ » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:52 pm

8 years after Majin Buu for Super.
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by mikeypricedice » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:30 pm

If you add timeskips to Buruma's age and possible age increases you get your timeline. Buruma clearly states she is 16, and when Goku starts looking for the Dragon Balls the second time, she is skipping HIGH school (plus Yamucha and Oolong- and, if I recall correctly, Puarh- are there too). If you add ALL possible additions to age, she is 50 at the end of the manga; so the manga takes place roughly 33-35 years.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Hot Rod » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:51 pm

Kuririn Fan wrote:The Majin Boo Arc takes place in Age 774, 18's result in the punching machine is a reference to that. You can easily calculate the rest from there.
Huh!? Is that reference true!? I have never noticed that it might be a reference to the year.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:52 am

Hot Rod wrote:
Kuririn Fan wrote:The Majin Boo Arc takes place in Age 774, 18's result in the punching machine is a reference to that. You can easily calculate the rest from there.
Huh!? Is that reference true!? I have never noticed that it might be a reference to the year.
It's a pretty funny coincidence, but a coincidence nonetheless. No way Toriyama had a working timeline as he was drawing the manga.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:51 am

Sooo .... can I tell you all now that I TOLD YOU SO?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]So time does pass concurrently and you do have to wait an equivalent amount of time after all in order to travel between timelines created by the time machine. So Trunks did have to wait 3 years before his second trip in order to be able to travel 3 years ahead of his first arrival time-point.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:58 pm

Speedster wrote:Sooo .... can I tell you all now that I TOLD YOU SO?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]So time does pass concurrently and you do have to wait an equivalent amount of time after all in order to travel between timelines created by the time machine. So Trunks did have to wait 3 years before his second trip in order to be able to travel 3 years ahead of his first arrival time-point.
This is contradicted by Toriyama's manga where Trunks is initially from 20 years in the future but later ends up being from only 17 years in the future, lending credence to the 8 month statement in the Trunks special however Toriyama himself later contradicts this so I suppose this is the new canon.

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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:05 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:This is contradicted by Toriyama's manga where Trunks is initially from 20 years in the future but later ends up being from only 17 years in the future, lending credence to the 8 month statement in the Trunks special however Toriyama himself later contradicts this so I suppose this is the new canon.
The 17 years was a mistake in the Trunks special chapter which got propagated. In the manga series itself, in chapter 335 Trunks clearly told Goku that he came from 20 years into the future.
TRUNKS: ...I came here in a time machine. from roughly twenty years in the future.
GOKU: T-Twenty years!? ...The future!?
TRUNKS: Yes.
GOKU: Don't you have anyone there to help you?
TRUNKS: There are none. In twenty years, I’m the only warrior remaining.
GOKU: What is it...?
TRUNKS: When your symptoms show up, please take this. It’s medicine for you. It’s incurable in this time, but in twenty years there’s special medicine. You won’t die with this medicine
Also it does make sense to be 20 years as otherwise Cell’s line of 24 years cannot be explained at all. He said that he was completed in 24 years in the future while talking to Piccolo during the Cell arc.

Android arc: May 765 = 788 Dec - 23.6years (≈24 years)
Mecha Freeza: Age 765-3years =Age 762
Trunks first journey was from: Age 762+20 years=Age 782
Trunks second Journey: Age 782 +3 years=Age 785
Trunks attempted 3rd journey (killed by Cell)=Age 785+3 years=Age 788

Also note that Trunks said roughly 20 years and from his explantion about the medicine it is implied to be a little over 20 years - unless he got the medicine immediately as soon as it was invented. So it could well be 20.6years for example. So even if Cell was from exactly 24years (or a bit over 24 years, say 24.3) it could also be:
Android arc: May 764 = Age 788 - 24years
Mecha Freeza: Age 765-3years = May 761
Trunks first journey was from: May 761+20.6 years (roughly 20 years)=January 782
Trunks second Journey: Age 782 +3 years=Age 785
Trunks attempted 3rd journey (killed by Cell)=Age 785+3 years=Age 788

In red are the years and time jumps that were given in the manga itself. Also remember that 788 is the ONLY chronological year ever given in the entire manga.

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TheUltimateNinja
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:01 pm

Speedster wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:This is contradicted by Toriyama's manga where Trunks is initially from 20 years in the future but later ends up being from only 17 years in the future, lending credence to the 8 month statement in the Trunks special however Toriyama himself later contradicts this so I suppose this is the new canon.
The 17 years was a mistake in the Trunks special chapter which got propagated. In the manga series itself, in chapter 335 Trunks clearly told Goku that he came from 20 years into the future.
TRUNKS: ...I came here in a time machine. from roughly twenty years in the future.
GOKU: T-Twenty years!? ...The future!?
TRUNKS: Yes.
GOKU: Don't you have anyone there to help you?
TRUNKS: There are none. In twenty years, I’m the only warrior remaining.
GOKU: What is it...?
TRUNKS: When your symptoms show up, please take this. It’s medicine for you. It’s incurable in this time, but in twenty years there’s special medicine. You won’t die with this medicine
Also it does make sense to be 20 years as otherwise Cell’s line of 24 years cannot be explained at all. He said that he was completed in 24 years in the future while talking to Piccolo during the Cell arc.

Android arc: May 765 = 788 Dec - 23.6years (≈24 years)
Mecha Freeza: Age 765-3years =Age 762
Trunks first journey was from: Age 762+20 years=Age 782
Trunks second Journey: Age 782 +3 years=Age 785
Trunks attempted 3rd journey (killed by Cell)=Age 785+3 years=Age 788

Also note that Trunks said roughly 20 years and from his explantion about the medicine it is implied to be a little over 20 years - unless he got the medicine immediately as soon as it was invented. So it could well be 20.6years for example. So even if Cell was from exactly 24years (or a bit over 24 years, say 24.3) it could also be:
Android arc: May 764 = Age 788 - 24years
Mecha Freeza: Age 765-3years = May 761
Trunks first journey was from: May 761+20.6 years (roughly 20 years)=January 782
Trunks second Journey: Age 782 +3 years=Age 785
Trunks attempted 3rd journey (killed by Cell)=Age 785+3 years=Age 788

In red are the years and time jumps that were given in the manga itself. Also remember that 788 is the ONLY chronological year ever given in the entire manga.
But Trunks was still 17 when he first came to the past, under your theory he'd have to be 18. There's also the fact that he experiences growth spurts in his years in the RoSAT which would make more sense for an 18 year old than a 21 year old.

Before this chapter of Super came out things made much more sense since both the 17 and 20 year statements could be valid if Trunks only waited 8 months in his future rather than the full 3 years. Based on Cell time traveling from Age 788, the Cell Games would happen in Age 767.

This is the timeline I used to follow before this new revelation and still believe makes more sense:
Mecha Freeza: Happens in Age 764, a 17 year old Trunks travels here from Age 784.
Trunks' birth: Towards the end of Age 766, around November or December.
Androids: Happens in Age 767, an 18 year old Trunks travels here from Age 785.

The following info was used to deduce this:
Trunks' age:
Trunks was born 2 and a half years after Trunks' first trip to the past, Trunks says he's 17 which fits with the fact that he's from 20 years in the future. Trunks would be born the year before the android attack since that happened in May.

The Trunks special implies that Trunks only waited 8 months to make his second trip, thus he would be 18 when he comes back to the past. This makes sense since he experiences significant growth spurts when he trains in the RoSAT, this would be expected of an 18 year old, and though not unheard of, would be very unusual in a man already past 20.

Trunks' trips to the past:
Final, failed trip: Age 788, stated in the manga.
First trip: Traveled back 20 years, at least 3 years and 8 months before Cell kills him, ie: Age 784, thus he goes back to Age 764.
Second trip: Traveled back 17 years, at least 3 years before Cell kills him, ie: Age 785, he goes back to Age 767, 3 years after his first trip. We know the month is May since that was stated in the manga as well.

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Speedster
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Re: The TRUE timeline of Dragonball

Post by Speedster » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:11 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:But Trunks was still 17 when he first came to the past, under your theory he'd have to be 18. There's also the fact that he experiences growth spurts in his years in the RoSAT which would make more sense for an 18 year old than a 21 year old.
Well he never said he was 17 although it can be calculated to be so. He said he would be born in 2.5 years and that he is from 20 years from the future– that would make him 17.5 or even 18. Also I don’t see a reason to assume he was younger than this and I don't see any significant change in his physical appearance after a physical year in RoSaT. Here is when he returned to the future once the Androids were defeated. Looks the same as before RoSaT to me. [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Trunks' trips to the past:
Final, failed trip: Age 788, stated in the manga.
First trip: Traveled back 20 years, at least 3 years and 8 months before Cell kills him, ie: Age 784, thus he goes back to Age 764.
Second trip: Traveled back 17 years, at least 3 years before Cell kills him, ie: Age 785, he goes back to Age 767, 3 years after his first trip. We know the month is May since that was stated in the manga as well.
But, Cell said in chapter 363 he would be completed in 24 years.
Cell: Hehehe...Destroying it now is too late. The necessary cells have already been gathered, and the research has begun. Although, I won’t be completed for another twenty-four years
He said so while talking to Piccolo during the Androids arc. If they were in Age 767 as you suggest then he would be completed in Age 791 which is false as in Age 788 he was already completed, he killed Trunks and stole his time machine.

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