Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timeline?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

TKB21
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timeline?

Post by TKB21 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:47 am

I always found it strange the Yemma never intervened while the androids decimated the earth during the Future Trunks timeline. I'd imagine with enough training in the Other World, at least one of the Z-Warriors would eventually get sent down as did Vegeta in the Buu Saga. The only reason I could think otherwise was that they weren't considered universal threats like Buu was.

Sidenote: Being that it was stated that the future androids were weaker than the main timeline's androids I wouldn't even be opposed to think the b-fighters like Tien, Krillin, and Yamcha would hold their own. I'm sure if they continued training with King Kai it would open the possibility of learning techniques such as kaio-ken and if we were going by anime canon, instant transmission.

User avatar
nickzambuto
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1627
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by nickzambuto » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:24 am

Yemma and the Kais are responsible for the whole universe. Planets and races probably come and go every day, Earth was just another unfortunate casualty, but you can't save EVERY starving puppy or sick cat. Only if the androids became a larger threat to the balance of creation and destruction in the universe at large would something need to be done, but just one measly planet? Nah who cares.

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Darkprince410 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:32 am

TKB21 wrote:
Sidenote: Being that it was stated that the future androids were weaker than the main timeline's androids I wouldn't even be opposed to think the b-fighters like Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Yamcha would hold their own. I'm sure if they continued training with King Kai it would open the possibility of learning techniques such as kaio-ken and if we were going by anime canon, instant transmission.
They were all on North Kaiou's planet for a comparable amount of time to Goku, with Tenshinhan and Chaozu being there for far, far longer, yet there's no clear indication that he attempted to teach them the Kaiou-ken. As for the Shunkan Idou, that's literally only in the dub that it's indicated that he knows how to perform it and could have taught it to Goku. What's shown in that scene of him "teleporting" around was just gag embellishment, and not him actually performing it, as he's not listed as knowing it in the Daizenshuu.

As for #17 and #18 being weaker in the future timeline, that may not necessarily be true, given that there's precedence that they never fought Trunks at their full strength prior to the battle where he ended up destroying them, and that it's possible they were actually the same strength in both timelines.

In the manga, it's clear that Trunks believe that they were stronger in the present than in the future.
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
Chapter: 357 (DBZ 163), P4.3
Trunks: “…But somehow I ended up coming to a past slightly different than the one I know…The timing of Goku’s heart disease was different, there are 3 androids, and their strength is greater too…”
However, in Future Gohan's battle against #17, the one where Gohan lost his life, we're given this tidbit of information.
Chapter: Trunks: the Story, P9.4-5, P10.1
Context: It’s worth noting that Trunks doesn’t hear this conversation and is unconscious, so he doesn’t sense the fight.
No.17: “Anyway, it’s been a long time, Son Gohan…It’s been about 1 year, right? I’m surprised you managed to survive after taking a beating like that…”
Future Gohan: “This time I’ve trained so that I wouldn’t get beaten. It’s your turn to lose now!”
No.17: “Our turn? …Heh heh heh… Sorry to disappoint you…but I didn’t even use half my power when we fought before.
So, right then and there, we have evidence that #17 is not above holding back a large portion of his strength just to make a fight fun and more interesting, as well as sadistically giving his opponent false hope. If #17 and #18 did this during the times they fought Trunks, and never informed him of how much they were holding back, then that leaves it wide open for the possibility that Trunks never experienced them at anywhere near their full power. As a result, his estimations of their strength was based only on the level of power they had used against him rather than their max, making it seem like the present timeline versions were stronger.
Last edited by Darkprince410 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7862
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:47 am

Because the Cell Saga only exists because everyones a f*cking idiot. An obvious thing to say but there really is no other explanation, hell, Yenma doesn't need to get involved at all, just leave Vegeta & Piccolo dead for a while, contact New Namek, revive them both then send them back to whoop the Androids asses.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4480
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:12 pm

Why would King Yemma care about Earth?

TKB21
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by TKB21 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:03 pm

FoolsGil wrote:Why would King Yemma care about Earth?
Dating back to the Saiyan Saga Yemma not only let Goku keep his body but also granted Kami's request for him to train with King Kai. On top of this, Saiyans have been destroying planets for years. With all that being said, Yemma must care a bit about earth for him to make these special accommodations.

User avatar
fadeddreams5
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5146
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:53 pm
Location: New York

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:09 pm

TKB21 wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:Why would King Yemma care about Earth?
Dating back to the Saiyan Saga Yemma not only let Goku keep his body but also granted Kami's request for him to train with King Kai. On top of this, Saiyans have been destroying planets for years. With all that being said, Yemma must care a bit about earth for him to make these special accommodations.
I thought anyone who has saved a planet or been a hero keeps their body as a reward. I know they're filler, but there's Pikkon and Olibu too. >.>

As for Kami, well, he requested it. King Yemma reluctantly agreed, but I don't think it's because he cared a lot for Earth.

In the case of Majin Buu, that creature destroyed planet after planet in the past, and endangered the entire universe. I mean, he's the Kaioshin's greatest enemy!
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

TKB21
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by TKB21 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:17 pm

FoolsGil wrote:In the case of Majin Buu, that creature destroyed planet after planet in the past, and endangered the entire universe. I mean, he's the Kaioshin's greatest enemy!
I know its a stretch but couldn't the same be said about the same about the Saiyans? I guess the main difference being how quick in succession planets are destroyed.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:42 pm

Same reason that Kaioshin, Beerus, or Whis wouldn't go there. The gods & the dead are not meant to solve the Living World's problems, unless if it's a universal threat like Majin Boo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

SSJ2FutureGohan
I Live Here
Posts: 2496
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:29 am

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:46 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:As for #17 and #18 being weaker in the future timeline, that may not necessarily be true, given that there's precedence that they never fought Trunks at full strength prior to the battle where he ended up destroying them, and that it's possible they were actually the same strength in both timelines.
The opposite is implied.

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Darkprince410 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:49 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote:As for #17 and #18 being weaker in the future timeline, that may not necessarily be true, given that there's precedence that they never fought Trunks at full strength prior to the battle where he ended up destroying them, and that it's possible they were actually the same strength in both timelines.
The opposite is implied.
My wording on that wasn't all that clear, but I was meaning that #17 and #18 never fought him while they were using their full strength until that final fight, rather than saying that he never used his full strength against them until that final battle.

SSJ2FutureGohan
I Live Here
Posts: 2496
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:29 am

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:53 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:My wording on that wasn't all that clear, but I was meaning that #17 and #18 never fought him while they were using their full strength until that final fight, rather than saying that he never used his full strength against them until that final battle.
I'm aware of that, I'm just saying the opposite is implied. Compare the two situations.

1. Gohan says he's now strong enough to beat them (#17 and #18). #17, amused, says that he didn't even use half of his power the last time they fought.

2. Trunks says he's now strong enough to beat them (#17 and #18). #17, amused, says "let's kill him"... and that's all. If he arrogantly could've gloated like before, he would've; ergo, he couldn't, and so he (or #18, whoever happened to fight Trunks before) didn't hold back.

And for what it's worth, the Daizenshuu supports the Future Androids being "somewhat inferior" to the Present Androids.

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 14228
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:30 pm

Because they are not a major threat. Buu was going to destroy every Planet in the Universe and no one was going to stop them. King Kai probably thought Beerus would not be awake by now and Whis would careless. If you want to throw in GT, no one knew about Planet M2 and I doubt Dr. Myuu knows about Majin Buu to stop him.
PS4 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
MAL Profile: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hellspawn28
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Darkprince410 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:14 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote: 2. Trunks says he's now strong enough to beat them (#17 and #18). #17, amused, says "let's kill him"... and that's all. If he arrogantly could've gloated like before, he would've; ergo, he couldn't, and so he (or #18, whoever happened to fight Trunks before) didn't hold back.
We can infer though that Gohan, when he fought them the first time (presumably when he lost his arm) he thought that they were fighting at their full strength, which means they didn't bother to gloat against him before then. If they didn't bother to gloat with him beforehand, and intentionally held back their power just to give Gohan false hope the next time they fought, then their lack of mentioning they're holding back when it comes to Trunks doesn't necessarily mean they weren't holding back.

SSJ2FutureGohan
I Live Here
Posts: 2496
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:29 am

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:18 am

Darkprince410 wrote:We can infer though that Gohan, when he fought them the first time (presumably when he lost his arm) he thought that they were fighting at their full strength, which means they didn't bother to gloat against him before then. If they didn't bother to gloat with him beforehand, and intentionally held back their power just to give Gohan false hope the next time they fought, then their lack of mentioning they're holding back when it comes to Trunks doesn't necessarily mean they weren't holding back.
The context is the same with Trunks. #17 waits until the second time Gohan comes to fight to let him know he wasn't using his full power. Trunks had fought the Androids before he went to the past. Now he's back a second time, and #17 doesn't inform Trunks he wasn't using his full power last time they had fought.

User avatar
SylentEcho
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Wakusei Bejita
Contact:

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by SylentEcho » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:44 am

Future Trunks' timeline? Wait..isn't that a completely different reality? Wouldn't there be another Enma there?

User avatar
Tectorman
Regular
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:19 pm

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Tectorman » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:50 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote:We can infer though that Gohan, when he fought them the first time (presumably when he lost his arm) he thought that they were fighting at their full strength, which means they didn't bother to gloat against him before then. If they didn't bother to gloat with him beforehand, and intentionally held back their power just to give Gohan false hope the next time they fought, then their lack of mentioning they're holding back when it comes to Trunks doesn't necessarily mean they weren't holding back.
The context is the same with Trunks. #17 waits until the second time Gohan comes to fight to let him know he wasn't using his full power. Trunks had fought the Androids before he went to the past. Now he's back a second time, and #17 doesn't inform Trunks he wasn't using his full power last time they had fought.
Maybe that's just because the conversation never naturally progressed to that point. By the time it otherwise would have, Trunks has already destroyed #18, and #17 doesn't feel like gloating anymore.
Twilight: My library?! My library!! Do you have any idea how many books I had in there?!
Lord Tirek: How many, little princess?
Twilight: Over NINE THOUSAND!!!

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 14228
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:50 am

SylentEcho wrote:Future Trunks' timeline? Wait..isn't that a completely different reality? Wouldn't there be another Enma there?
I would imagine soon. I think another reason why Goku and the others didn't return to Earth after death is avoid to having their bodies being erase for good. If the dead dies again then they are gone forever.
PS4 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
MAL Profile: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hellspawn28
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7862
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:14 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
SylentEcho wrote:Future Trunks' timeline? Wait..isn't that a completely different reality? Wouldn't there be another Enma there?
I would imagine soon. I think another reason why Goku and the others didn't return to Earth after death is avoid to having their bodies being erase for good. If the dead dies again then they are gone forever.
They can train their asses off in Otherworld though, hell, give Goku 2-4 years and he'll come back at the very least strong enough to kick the ass of Semi-Perfect Cell. The real reason no one goes back is because everyone in this point in the series is both an asshole and a moron.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
irreality
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:08 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Why didn't King Yemma send anyone down in the FT timelin

Post by irreality » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:10 am

TKB21 wrote:I always found it strange the Yemma never intervened while the androids decimated the earth during the Future Trunks timeline. I'd imagine with enough training in the Other World, at least one of the Z-Warriors would eventually get sent down as did Vegeta in the Buu Saga. The only reason I could think otherwise was that they weren't considered universal threats like Buu was.

Sidenote: Being that it was stated that the future androids were weaker than the main timeline's androids I wouldn't even be opposed to think the b-fighters like Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Yamcha would hold their own. I'm sure if they continued training with King Kai it would open the possibility of learning techniques such as kaio-ken and if we were going by anime canon, instant transmission.
Maybe Uranai Baba died, plus I think she can only bring one person back to life at a time and only for one day ever. Although Enma can grant someone keep their body and train in the afterlife, no amount of instant transmission gets them back to the land of the living if they are dead.

Post Reply