The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

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The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by AvatarReiko » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:03 am

I always wondered how big the gap was between these two. I never really saw it as monstrously large. Maybe Supressed Cell vs Goku? I mean, Gotenks was able tank Buu's mouth blasts at close range wheras Gohan had to block or push them back. To put it into prospective, disregarding the fusion time limit, would two SSJ3 Gotenks' be enough to overwhelm Gohan? If not, how many would you need?

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Khin » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:11 am

The gap between Vegeta(vs.Recoome) and Recoome

Super Buu = 28

SSJ3 Gotenks = 30

Ultimate Gohan = 40

Buutenks = 58

If Gotenks spams his Ghost Attack,he may have a chance since that attack was able to hurt a guy 8x stronger than him.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by buutenks » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:27 pm

ssj3 gotenks is equal to super buu.So ye,he loses same way as super buu.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Tectorman » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:54 pm

I have Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks at the same strength.

When Gotenks is fighting Super Buu, even when he goes SSJ3, we still see him goofing off, making mistakes, and needing to be coached by Piccolo. To me, that means that Gotenks is not fighting to his full ability, or rather, Gotenks' power, either due to his mindset or his inexperience, wasn't being applied as fully as it could have been. So if Gotenks fighting at less than full ability is even with or slightly better than Super Buu, then Gotenks fighting at full ability and not making simple mistakes should be significantly stronger than Super Buu.

And Gohan was fighting at full ability and he was significantly stronger. So I think the difference between Gohan and Gotenks wasn't the power they had, but how fully they used it.

Put another way:
Super Buu: 6 (fighting at the capability of a 6)
SSJ3 Gotenks: 8 (but only fighting at the capability of a 6)
Mystic Gohan: 8 (and fighting at an 8)
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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Blade » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:57 pm

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:The gap between Vegeta(vs.Recoome) and Recoome

Super Buu = 28

SSJ3 Gotenks = 30

Ultimate Gohan = 40

Buutenks = 58

If Gotenks spams his Ghost Attack,he may have a chance since that attack was able to hurt a guy 8x stronger than him.
That's one way of looking at it.

Personally, however, I subscribe to the belief that Super Buu is actually a little stronger than Gotenks. He dragged out the fight because he could sense Gohan's power growing, and knew that he needed Gotenks alive and in one piece to have any hope of being able to absorb him and thus overcome Gohan.

I also believe that when it comes to absorption, it's a little more complicated than outright addition of strength - else when Buu absorbed Dai Kaioshin he would have been strengthened, not weakened. There are probably a number of factors which come into play, which seem to include personality and other such mystical abilities. Absorbing Piccolo made Buu more intelligent, but didn't do much for his power. Absorbing Gotenks. on the other hand, seemed to increase only his power, and do nothing to reflect Gotenks' impetuous personality.

So, purely in the case of the absorption of Gotenks, I propose that a better way to look at it would be to say that particular absorption added around half of the power of the absorbee. So in regular expression that would be something like A + (B * 0.5)

So if Super Buu was 55, and Gotenks was 50, then the resultant Buutenks would be around 80. Personally, I'd peg Gohan at around 70.
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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by AvatarReiko » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:08 pm

Blade wrote:
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:The gap between Vegeta(vs.Recoome) and Recoome


Personally, however, I subscribe to the belief that Super Buu is actually a little stronger than Gotenks. He dragged out the fight because he could sense Gohan's power growing, and knew that he needed Gotenks alive and in one piece to have any hope of being able to absorb him and thus overcome Gohan.
He could have dragged out the fight without letting himself get beaten to a pulp.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:31 pm

I currently have this:

Super Buu: 60
Gotenks: 72
Gohan: 90

But I'm considering this as well:

Super Buu: 80
Gotenks: 100
Gohan: 120

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:55 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:
Blade wrote:
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:The gap between Vegeta(vs.Recoome) and Recoome


Personally, however, I subscribe to the belief that Super Buu is actually a little stronger than Gotenks. He dragged out the fight because he could sense Gohan's power growing, and knew that he needed Gotenks alive and in one piece to have any hope of being able to absorb him and thus overcome Gohan.
He could have dragged out the fight without letting himself get beaten to a pulp.
Really, there's not much he could do, barring fleeing, that would allow him to drag the fight on without risking potential injury to Gotenks. Despite Gotenks' claims, we don't necessarily know if he was as vulnerable or at risk of being killed as he looked. He could have simply been intentionally taking the blows and feigning a difficulty in regeneration simply to play with Gotenks and let the fight drag on longer, while at the same time keeping Gotenks from being injured and thus a less useful absorption victim.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:23 pm

Tectorman wrote:I have Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks at the same strength.

When Gotenks is fighting Super Buu, even when he goes SSJ3, we still see him goofing off, making mistakes, and needing to be coached by Piccolo. To me, that means that Gotenks is not fighting to his full ability, or rather, Gotenks' power, either due to his mindset or his inexperience, wasn't being applied as fully as it could have been. So if Gotenks fighting at less than full ability is even with or slightly better than Super Buu, then Gotenks fighting at full ability and not making simple mistakes should be significantly stronger than Super Buu.

And Gohan was fighting at full ability and he was significantly stronger. So I think the difference between Gohan and Gotenks wasn't the power they had, but how fully they used it.

Put another way:
Super Buu: 6 (fighting at the capability of a 6)
SSJ3 Gotenks: 8 (but only fighting at the capability of a 6)
Mystic Gohan: 8 (and fighting at an 8)
I'm not sure that Gohan and Gotenks were at equal pegging. When Gohan arrived and was about the fight Super Boo, Goten and Trunks were gonna fuse to support Gohan and fight Super Boo. Then Gohan effortlessly kicks Super Boo's ass leaving Goten and Trunks stunned and they then on the spot completely forget about any idea of fusing. That for me indicates that Goten and Trunks felt as though Gohan was much more powerful then they were as Gotenks considering that after seeing how strong Gohan had become they felt the need of fusing and jumping into the battle was pointless.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Sora Saiyan » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:58 pm

I have SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu being about equal, but I do sometimes place either one slightly above the other. I believe Gohan is 1.5x stronger than either of the fighters.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Jeff Styles » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:01 pm

Goten says Gohan is only a little stronger than Gotenks.Yet Gohan was punching the stuffing out of Evil Boo, phyiscal attacks that will cripple him if he was made up of flesh and bones.
1.33x gap between Gotenks and Gohan.Gotenks only hope in winning is if he caught Gohan off guard by using his Ghost Kamikaze Attack.If SSJ Gotenks can damage Evil Boo who is 8x stronger than him in that form, destroying Gohan will be easier since he can't regenerate.
Last edited by Jeff Styles on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:22 pm

Jeff Styles wrote:Goten says Gohan is only a little stronger than Gotenks.Yet Gohan was punching the stuffing out Evil Boo, phyiscal attacks that will cripple him if he was made up of flesh and bones.
1.33x gap between Gotenks and Gohan.Gotenks only hope in winning is if he caught Gohan off guard by using his Ghost Kamikaze Attack.If SSJ Gotenks can damage Evil Boo who is 8x stronger than him in that form, destroying Gohan will be easier since he can't regenerate.
No, that was Trunks that said that Gotenks was only "a little" stronger, and that was simply to save face. He initially commented that Gohan might almost be as strong as Super Gotenks, only for Goten to interject and say that Gohan is stronger. Trunks, being one to try and be cool whenever he could, tried to downplay the difference between them then by saying that he was only just a bit stronger, without there being any real sincerity to his comment.
Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”
Goten: “He was even stronger.”
Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”
Given Piccolo's statements on the comparison between Ssj3 Gotenks and Evil Buu, the difference between Gohan and Gotenks is at least the same as the difference between Gohan and base Evil Buu, if not moreso given the revelation that Evil Buu may have been intentionally drawing out the fight for if he needed Gotenks once Gohan arrived.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:13 pm

Gohan > Gotenks > Evil Boo

I'm not in the train of thought that Gotenks and Evil Boo are even at all. Even before learning of Gotenks' time limit or making any mention of Gohan, Boo did nothing to show he was Gotenks' superior and landed only what, one hit? Also comparing the damage done to each other by each other's mouth blast, I think that coupled with Gotenks kicking the shit out of Boo towards the end of their fight puts Gotenks above Evil Boo by a noticeable margin. In numbers:

Evil Boo: 10
SS3 Gotenks: 12
Ultimate Gohan: 15

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Tectorman » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:52 pm

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”
Goten: “He was even stronger.”
Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”
See, I take this a different way. It seemed to me like Trunks's first statement is the best gauge between the two, because later the context of the conversation changes. Trunks's first statement was an unbiased observation, one that Goten who has spent his entire life looking up at his big brother with nothing but hero worship took as "Your super-awesome-big-brother is only as awesome as we were."

Goten understandably objects to this, but I think he meant, "Nuh-uh, you take that back. My super-awesome-big-brother is the bestest in the world." And Trunks's subsequent agreement with Goten? I think that was just "If I agree with you, will you shut up?"

Remember, these are little kids and that will color what they say and why they say it.

And as far as their decision to not continue fusing like they were about to before Gohan started his beatdown? That's still consistent with my theory that they have the same power and Gohan was just more experienced and fighting with it better. Seeing someone as strong as you using it a whole lot better would tend to make you think you'd just be in the way. And that's just Trunks, never mind starry-eyed Goten seeing his big brother just as awesome as he always imagined. Note that when Buu shows back up, they're ready to jump right back into the fight. Were they inspired by how much better Gohan was fighting with their level of power, such that they thought they could do better?
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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:00 pm

Gohan told Boo that he should've absorbed him if he wanted to be the strongest.

So according to Gohan, he's superior to Gotenks.
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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by OWmyDragonBallz » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:53 pm

Then this Battle of Gods stuff ruined the power consistency.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:02 pm

Tectorman wrote:
See, I take this a different way. It seemed to me like Trunks's first statement is the best gauge between the two, because later the context of the conversation changes. Trunks's first statement was an unbiased observation, one that Goten who has spent his entire life looking up at his big brother with nothing but hero worship took as "Your super-awesome-big-brother is only as awesome as we were."
I personally don't see how it really could be taken that way. Trunks has, time and again, been the one always pushing for "coolness", being the one to suggest they intentionally drag on the fight with Evil Buu in their weaker forms just to make it look more spectacular, and then jump to their "secret" form towards the end. Goten though has shown a good deal more level-headedness toward the matter. It would be perfectly in character for Trunks to try and play up Gotenks' strength in comparison to Gohan, and then try to save face when corrected.

Likewise, the comments made by Gohan, Evil Buu, and Piccolo point to Gohan being the stronger, and not by simply a "little bit".

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by AvatarReiko » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:49 pm

Darkprince410 wrote: Really, there's not much he could do, barring fleeing, that would allow him to drag the fight on without risking potential injury to Gotenks..
Buu could simply have suppressed his Pl to a level where Gotenks could at least keep up with him but big enough that he could control the fight. Hence, him not getting beaten black and blue. This would have allowed even fight, which in turn would have dragged out the fight and would have still given Gotenks the false illusion that he could he win. We have seen characters do this on multiple occasions. One example being the fight between Goku vs Cell. The latter was dominant but not so much that the former was outclassed. Buu was genuinely getting pummelled and Gotenks did far more damage to him than Buu did him.
Jeff Styles wrote:Goten says Gohan is only a little stronger than Gotenks.Yet Gohan was punching the stuffing out Evil Boo, phyiscal attacks that will cripple him if he was made up of flesh and bones.
Gotenks was doing the eaxct same thing to Buu on the pages leading up to their seperation. He beat him so bad that he left Buu crippled and with bruises all over his body.
Last edited by AvatarReiko on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:58 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote: Really, there's not much he could do, barring fleeing, that would allow him to drag the fight on without risking potential injury to Gotenks..
All Buu would have had to do was suppress his Pl to a level where Gotenks could at least hold his own. This would have allowed them to fight more evenly, which in turn would have dragged out the fight. We have seen characters do this on multiple occasions. One example being the fight between Goku vs Cell.The latter was dominant but so much that the former was outclassed. Buu was genuinely getting pummelled and Gotenks did far more damage to him than Buu did him.
However, Buu received no legitimate damage from him whatsoever, as he was able to regenerate from it soon after being damaged. Likewise, in contrast to the Goku vs. Cell fight, Buu wasn't wanting to inflict any real damage on Gotenks at all, as that'd affect the subsequent absorption if he did indeed have to go through with it. He knew that Gotenks didn't have much more time left in his fusion, so he let himself get beaten around a bit for what was generally superficial damage until he fell out of Ssj3 and then de-fused. It wasn't that he simply wanted to drag the fight out. He wanted to drag the fight out while keeping Gotenks as a viable and suitable source of power if he needed to absorb him.

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Re: The gap between SSJ3 Gotenks & Mystic Gohan

Post by AvatarReiko » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:41 am

Darkprince410 wrote: However, Buu received no legitimate damage from him whatsoever, as he was able to regenerate from it soon after being damaged.
Except he did. Gotenks' mouth blast damaged Buu and the latter was even shown to be frustarted afterwards(as well as other parts of the fight, to where even Piccolo commented on it), which is just one of many examples. Gotenks then proceeded to wail on Buu, so bad that the latter couldn't even counter, and lefft him cripped and covered entirely in bruises.
Darkprince410 wrote: Likewise, in contrast to the Goku vs. Cell fight, Buu wasn't wanting to inflict any real damage on Gotenks at all
I already addressed this above. Buu could have simply suppressed his Pl to a level where Gotenks could keep up with him but big enough that he could still control the fight. Hence, him not getting beaten black and blue. Furthermore, he only needed to put enough power into his attacks to KO Gotenks, not kill. Cell could have killed Goku pretty easily had he started out with his full power, but he surppressed himself so that Goku could keep up, while at same time, leaving a big enough gap so he could still control the fight.

Darkprince410 wrote: He knew that Gotenks didn't have much more time left in his fusion, so he let himself get beaten around a bit for what was generally superficial damage until he fell out of Ssj3 and then de-fused.

Gotenks was shown to have the slighty upper hand even before he knew about the fusion.
Darkprince410 wrote: It wasn't that he simply wanted to drag the fight out. He wanted to drag the fight out while keeping Gotenks as a viable and suitable source of power if he needed to absorb him.
Adressed above. No one is saying he had to kill him. He could have used attacks that were aimed to incapacitate. Saiyans can be very persitent and they know how to take a beating. And as I said above, he could have dragged it out without letting himself get pummelled.

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