What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:51 am

Of course this depends on what your multiplier for SSJG is. You seem to have gone with 15,000 times SSJ3.
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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by Blackstripe » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:31 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Of course this depends on what your multiplier for SSJG is. You seem to have gone with 15,000 times SSJ3.
Right. In my most recent power level list, I have it at a staggering 375,000x SSJ3, aka 240,000,000 base. With that, Raditz comes out not too far off from where I have Super Buu...so my estimation of him being able to beat Gohanbuu was wrong. Still, Super Buu level is quite a feat for ol' Raditz.

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by irreality » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:54 pm

I think the power level calculations in the OP are meaningless -- if Radditz were to become SSJ, he wouldn't do so with a power level of 1200. He'd have to train to get a decent base level before he could transform, and would probably be on the level of other SSJ in the series -- probably not as weak as the little kid SSJs, but not as strong as Goku/Vegeta SSJ.

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:15 am

I think that minimum requirement of SS is that it must be stronger than freeza (atleast first form). No being in the series have been a super saiyan & weaker than first form freeza, canon or not canon. (Except that goku Jr & vegeta Jr thing. They aren't even 1/4 saiyans. They are like 90+% humans.)
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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:36 am

apex_pretador wrote:I think that minimum requirement of SS is that it must be stronger than freeza (atleast first form). No being in the series have been a super saiyan & weaker than first form freeza, canon or not canon. (Except that goku Jr & vegeta Jr thing. They aren't even 1/4 saiyans. They are like 90+% humans.)
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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by irreality » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:49 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:I think that minimum requirement of SS is that it must be stronger than freeza (atleast first form). No being in the series have been a super saiyan & weaker than first form freeza, canon or not canon. (Except that goku Jr & vegeta Jr thing. They aren't even 1/4 saiyans. They are like 90+% humans.)
Bardock?
SSJ Bardock can beat Chilled -- I assume he would be around freeza first form in power?

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by Majin Whis » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:51 pm

SSJ Bardock can beat Chilled -- I assume he would be around freeza first form in power?
Well, Bardock had a power level around 10,000 when Freeza warped him back in the past. Assuming Bardock didn't have a tremendous increase of power since he faced Freeza when he turned Super Saiyan that would put Bardock at roughly 500,000 power level wise.

The way Bardock totally destroyed Chilled without hardly any effort tells me Chilled was not even in the same league as Freeza.

If Bardock where to face Freeza in his super saiyan form all Freeza would have to do is transform once and Bardock would be dead.

Third form would just be overkill if he went that far.

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by irreality » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:03 pm

Well, the statement was no character is SSJ and weaker than first form freeza. I think SSJ Bardock is close enough to first form Freeza to satisfy this condition if he can beat Chilled at all and might be around 5x10^5 power level.

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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:05 pm

Majin Whis wrote:Sorry if this in the wrong place. Every other place didn't seem quiet right.

You know, I was looking at Super Saiyan multipliers and just found out how weak
Raditz really is. Lets look at who he can take on at his base power level of 1,200

Power Levels

Super Saiyan Raditz - 60,000

He can take on anyone in the Saiyan Saga and almost anyone in the Ginyu saga.

When Goku faces Captain Ginyu either one can take out Super Saiyan Raditz

Super Saiyan 2 Raditz - 120,000

When Vegeta fights Jeice he can take on Super Saiyan 2 Raditz but they would be close rivals.
That's right; Raditz at Super Saiyan 2 doesn't help him for very long.

Super Saiyan 3 Raditz - 480,000

We didn't even get to Freeza yet and already Raditz needs Super Saiyan 3.
He can barely hold it together with first form Freeza at full power. Once Freeza
transforms into his 2nd form SSJ3 Raditz would get his face planted in the ground.

Super Saiyan God Raditz - 7,200,000,000

The Saiyans feel bad for a crippled SSJ3 Raditz and decided to unlock
Super Saiyan God for him. He can take on anyone in the Freeza saga
and Android saga up until the cell games. Perfect cell holding back would
completely take out a Super Saiyan God Raditz.

Do you guys think of this?

I'd like to point out something that is overlooked and that is the progress of Raditz's younger brother.
Let's apply the OP's multiplier to Goku as he was when he fought Raditz.
Raditz's power level was around 1,200~1,500 (depending on the source you use).
Goku's base power level was 416.

Let's use the same multiplier, but on Goku.
Super Saiyan Goku: 20,800
Actual Super Saiyan Goku: 150,000,000

Based on your calculations, Super Saiyan Goku could beat Cui and Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but would struggle against Zarbon and Dodoria.
The Ginyu Force, let alone Freeza, is out of the question.

Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 41,600
Can ROFL stomp Zarbon and Dodoria and be somewhat evenly matched against most of the Ginyu Force, save for Captain Ginyu and, of course, Freeza.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 166,400
Can beat Captain Ginyu, but no match for Freeza (in fact, he would be worse off than when Goku did fight Freeza before he turned Super Saiyan).

Super Saiyan God Goku: 2,496,000,000
Can beat Freeza's first form and even give second form Freeza a run for his money, but as for Final Form Freeza, Androids, Cell, Buu, let alone Beerus, forget it.

Let's try this instead:
Vegeta when introduced had a power level of 18,000
After his fight on Earth, he had 24,000
After surviving his fight with Zarbon and before he fought Recoome, he had 30,000.
According to V-Jump, Vegeta's power level jumped to 250,000 (Eh, maybe. Perhaps was even stronger, since he was able to keep up with Freeza's initial form).

Goku, on the other hand, started with the aforementioned 416.
After training in the afterlife, his power level jumped to a base power level of 5,000, but Vegeta and Nappa discovered it was actually 8,000.
After his fight with Vegeta and his training during the trip, Goku's unrestrained power level was 90,000.
After the encounter with Captain Ginyu and was healed, Goku's power level jumped to 3,000,000 (according to Daizenshuu 7).

The key is to use the multipliers in between those intervals as a base on how Raditz's growth MIGHT be. If the video games are any indicators, Raditz would probably not train unless someone motivated and supervised him, so Vegeta's growth would be the most similar to how his would be (unless Raditz found a "get-strong-quick" method, which he would jump on doing immediately):

Vegeta's growth between 18,000 to 24,000 was 6,000 with the Zenkai multiplier of 1.33333333333
His growth between 24,000 to 30,000 was 6,000 the Zenkai multiplier of 1.25
In total, from 18,000 to 30,000 the Zenkai multiplier is 1.66666666667
For shiggles, let's throw in V-Jump's Post-Recoome Vegeta power level:
From 18,000 to 250,000, the Zenkai multiplier is 13.8888888889
From 30,000 to 250,000, the Zenkai multiplier is 8.33333333333

Using this model in comparison to calculate Raditz's growth using pure Zenkai:
1st Stage
1,200 x 1.33333333333 = 1,600
1,500 x 1.33333333333 = 2,000
2nd Stage
1,600 x 1.25 = 2,000
2,000 x 1.25 = 2,500
Overall Multiplier:
1,200 x 1.66666666667 = 2,000
1,500 x 1.66666666667 = 2,500
V-Jump Multipliers:
2,000 x 8.33333333333 = 16,666.6666667
2,500 x 8.33333333333 = 20,833.3333333
1,200 x 13.8888888889 = 16,666.6666667
1,500 x 13.8888888889 = 20,833.3333333
Since we do not know Super Saiyan Vegeta's power level, thus we cannot get a multiplier, this is as far as we can go. But, these would be the starting power levels before Raditz would train like Vegeta did until he reached Super Saiyan. As you can see, the road to Super Saiyan for Raditz using Zenkai would be a long one if he had the Vegeta multiplier. Goku's would be even worse!
But, what if he, like his brother, found a way to get stronger, quicker?

Goku's level jumped from 416 to 8,000 (not counting Kaioken), so the multiplier is about 19.2307692308 (I know, they keep repeating).
From post-Vegeta to Namek, it jumped from 8,000 to 90,000, so the multiplier is about 11.25
From post-Ginyu to Confronting Freeza, it jumped from 90,000 to 3,000,000 (according to Daizenshuu 7), the multiplier is 33.3333333333
And finally, according to Daizenshuu 7, from base to Super Saiyan, it jumped from 3,000,000 to 150,000,000 and the multiplier is 50. This is what you discovered, Majin Whis.
From Start of Z to Super Saiyan, 416 to 150,000,000, the multiplier is 36,0576.923077 and is the number I would use to measure Raditz's growth overall.
But, let's put Raditz through Goku's growth method:

Under training similar to Goku's (but is not taught the Kaioken):
1,200 x 19.2307692308 = 23,076.9230769
1,500 x 19.2307692308 = 28,846.1538462
Easily beats Vegeta, Cui, and Dodoria, but could have trouble with Zarbon.
Post-Vegeta to Namek Training:
23,076.9230769 x 11.25 = 259,615.384615
28,846.1538462 x 11.25 = 324,519.230769
ROFL Stomps the Ginyu Force and poses a threat to Freeza.
Post-Ginyu to Confronting Freeza:
259,615.384615 x 33.3333333333 = 8,653,846.15384
324,519.230769 x 33.3333333333 = 10,817,307.6923
As you can see, Freeza would have to IMMEDIATELY jump to his later transformations to fight Raditz, lest he be overwhelmed from the get-go by the Saiyan. Remember, this is Raditz WITHOUT things like Kaioken.
Finally, Super Saiyan:
8,653,846.15384 x 50 = 432,692,307.692
10,817,307.6923 x 50 = 540,865,384.615
.... Freeza's dead. LOL! To be fair, Raditz probably would have transformed much sooner when he got to these levels.
But, let's do the the overall journey multiplier:
1,200 x 36,0576.923077 = 432,692,307.692
1,500 x 36,0576.923077 = 540,865,384.615

Hmmm.... matches up nicely.
However, there is one more calculation
Goku's base power level was 3,000,000 going into the fight with Freeza, so take that into account and factor in the starting power level of 416.
The multiplier is 7,211.53846154.
Taking that into account, Raditz's power level would be 8,653,846.15385 ~ 10,817,307.6923 to start crossing into the threshold of Super Saiyan.
Last edited by ShadowBardock89 on Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What happens if Raditz became a Super Saiyan?

Post by AlexFili » Sun May 01, 2016 4:55 am

I think of people like Goten and Kid Trunks can attain SSJ form, eventually all the other saiyans can. In most of the DBZ videogame what-ifs stories Raditz seems to come back stronger than before, so there's always that chance...
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