Could Goku really have killed Fat Buu when he turned SSJ3?

[DainIronfoot]

Evening lads, apologies if this is in the wrong section.

Anyways, that is my question. Anime wise Goku said that he would of been able to destroy Fat buu when he fought him as a SSJ3 but i have some issues with this. Firstly, in the anime whenever we see Fat Buu actually hurt it's easy to tell because his eyes open up as he gets hit and his body starts to get deformed a bit. That did not happen at all during his fight with Goku, you could see that he would just come back every time without any signs of damage done to him. I know some will say he was going easy on him but i still don't think that's the true case here. Secondly, (and i use Fukkatsu no F for this) Goku states in the anime while fighting Buu that if he keeps the fight up his energy is going to drain really fast because he was still getting used to the form, similar to Golden Freeza right? If the fight had continued, wouldn't Goku eventually lose most of his energy and start to lose the fight (also his time on Earth!) while Buu just kept regenerating?

A lot of people will compare Fat Buu to Kid Buu and the fact that Goku kept up with Kid Buu but tbh for me...Goku wasn't doing much to Kid Buu either. Sure he landed hits but never once was Kid buu ever showing signs that he was hurt badly or tired. Goku however kept losing energy and if he didn't have Porunga restore him to full power, the Spirit Bomb would not have worked.



Thoughts lads?

[Pocket-God]

Eh i never really thought that he was going to win that fight either, i mean come on if he really could've killed Fat Buu then why didn't he?

[Kuririn Fan]

Eh i never really thought that he was going to win that fight either, i mean come on if he really could've killed Fat Buu then why didn't he?

He says to Vegeta that he could but he didnt, he wanted the kids (Goten and Trunks) to defeat him, because passing the torch and all that, and he isnt even supposed to be there.

[Darkprince410]

Eh i never really thought that he was going to win that fight either, i mean come on if he really could've killed Fat Buu then why didn't he?

He explained, both to Piccolo and to Vegeta, that he didn't try to beat Buu because it wasn't his place to given that he was dead, and that he felt that the next generation (Goten and Trunks) needed to be responsible for it. While he lied to Piccolo about his chances of beating Fat Buu, he admitted to Vegeta he could have, but chose not to.

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8, P11.1-3
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

[rereboy]

He stood a good chance of being able to do it. Power-wise he had the required amount of power. But it wasn't a done deal, especially with his time limit and Buu's stamina and regeneration.

[Tectorman]

Goku didn't know how Fat Buu's abilities worked. He knew that Majin Vegeta, who was as strong as he was as a SSJ2, couldn't beat Fat Buu, but that was it. How fast does his regeneration work? How much does it heal? Does regenerating impact his stamina? Does anything?

Without knowing any of this, Goku fighting at full power as a SSJ3 might not have accomplished anything. He could power up to full, insta-vape Fat Buu to ashes, and run out of time thirty seconds later and have to go back to the afterlife, only to see Fat Buu regenerating before he left. As far as he knew then, Gohan would still be dead, the boys still wouldn't know fusion, and Earth's only hope would be Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien. Goku felt that to be an unacceptable gamble. Holding back now, pushing his time limit as much as he could, and staying to teach the boys fusion was the safer bet, based on how familiar Goku was with Buu's abilities at the time.

Of course, later is a different story. After Goku has fought Fat Buu, after he's watched Buu from the afterlife, and after he encountered Buutenks and fought against Buuhan as Vegetto, he has a much better grasp of the parameters of Fat Buu's abilities. Now he knows that if he had gone to full power SSJ3 against Fat Buu, he still would have burned through all of his remaining time almost immediately, but it would have been enough to permanently kill Fat Buu. But that is only something that he could know after getting more familiar with Buu's abilities.

[sintzu]

Goku didn't know how Fat Buu's abilities worked. He knew that Majin Vegeta, who was as strong as he was as a SSJ2, couldn't beat Fat Buu, but that was it.

Another thing he didn't know was that Vegeta was weakened when he blew himself up so if he knew that he may have just used Ssj2 to hold him off.

[dragonballer]

Evening lads, apologies if this is in the wrong section.

Anyways, that is my question. Anime wise Goku said that he would of been able to destroy Fat buu when he fought him as a SSJ3 but i have some issues with this. Firstly, in the anime whenever we see Fat Buu actually hurt it's easy to tell because his eyes open up as he gets hit and his body starts to get deformed a bit. That did not happen at all during his fight with Goku, you could see that he would just come back every time without any signs of damage done to him. I know some will say he was going easy on him but i still don't think that's the true case here. Secondly, (and i use Fukkatsu no F for this) Goku states in the anime while fighting Buu that if he keeps the fight up his energy is going to drain really fast because he was still getting used to the form, similar to Golden Freeza right? If the fight had continued, wouldn't Goku eventually lose most of his energy and start to lose the fight (also his time on Earth!) while Buu just kept regenerating?

A lot of people will compare Fat Buu to Kid Buu and the fact that Goku kept up with Kid Buu but tbh for me...Goku wasn't doing much to Kid Buu either. Sure he landed hits but never once was Kid buu ever showing signs that he was hurt badly or tired. Goku however kept losing energy and if he didn't have Porunga restore him to full power, the Spirit Bomb would not have worked.



Thoughts lads?

kid buu's regeneration >>>> fat buu's regeneration

see my theory:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=30024

[Hellspawn28]

Goku was only fighting Buu just to hold off time. He was strong enough to do so, but he wanted Goten and Trunks to save the day.

[Tectorman]

Goku didn't know how Fat Buu's abilities worked. He knew that Majin Vegeta, who was as strong as he was as a SSJ2, couldn't beat Fat Buu, but that was it.

Another thing he didn't know was that Vegeta was weakened when he blew himself up so if he knew that he may have just used Ssj2 to hold him off.

That's certainly possible, though I think that most of Goku's second-hand knowledge of Fat Buu came from talking to Piccolo, who did witness nearly all of the fight.

Another factor that may or may not have been taking place was the Damage-Energy-Conversion aspect of the Majin spell that was still on Vegeta. Every time Vegeta beat the crap out of Fat Buu, that damage might have still been sent as energy to Fat Buu (meaning that Vegeta especially would not have been able to make a dent). An unadulterated SSJ2 might've done better.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku outright states he could have killed Buu there and then, but he wanted the younger generation to learn how to defend themselves and protect the Earth in his absence.

[dbgtFO]

Another factor that may or may not have been taking place was the Damage-Energy-Conversion aspect of the Majin spell that was still on Vegeta. Every time Vegeta beat the crap out of Fat Buu, that damage might have still been sent as energy to Fat Buu (meaning that Vegeta especially would not have been able to make a dent). An unadulterated SSJ2 might've done better.

Sounds far-fetched to me, when I'm pretty sure it's stated or implied the ship that did the absorbing damage energy thing. Since Vegeta destroyed that ship, there really shouldn't be anymore damage energy stuff going on.

[Hitiro]

I also thought the manga implied that absorbing energy from damage only worked on non-majin characters?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.”
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P6.1-2
Context: after Majin Boo quickly reaches full power
Kaioshin: “Th-that’s impossible…Wh-why has Goku’s damage energy [filled it up] already…!?”
Gohan: “…I-I know…! Father is fighting at a level that has further surpassed Super Saiyan…Vegeta probably is too…If two incredible powers like that clash, th-the damage is astounding too…!”

Yeah, after checking it seems that only Goku, Gohan and the Kaioshin would contribute damage energy to fill up Boo's resurrection gauge.

[trick007z]

Realistically no.

Buu's regeneration skills were insane and far more extensive than anyone thought at the time. It would have taken Goku far longer than he let on to beat Buu, and he lost a rapid amount of time on Earth by going SSJ3. He probably would have clocked out if he tried to spend the time it would have taken to kill Buu. Just as his living body clocked out of SSJ3 before he could kill Buu.

Also nobody knew Buu could absorb people. And it's something that could have caught Goku off guard and made the situation far worse.

[Hitiro]

Realistically no.

Buu's regeneration skills were insane and far more extensive than anyone thought at the time. It would have taken Goku far longer than he let on to beat Buu, and he lost a rapid amount of time on Earth by going SSJ3. He probably would have clocked out if he tried to spend the time it would have taken to kill Buu. Just as his living body clocked out of SSJ3 before he could kill Buu.

Also nobody knew Buu could absorb people. And it's something that could have caught Goku off guard and made the situation far worse.

It would have only taken a long period of time if he didn't have the necessary Ki to utterly destroy Boo. As Vegetto demonstrated, it is possible to disintegrate Boo to the point he can't regenerate. It's really a question of did Goku have enough of a difference with SSJ3 for it to be possible. Given their experience with Boo by the end of the story it is entirely possible that he evaluated that he indeed had enough Ki to erase the original Boo from existence. We could even postulate that when he said "I can say this now" in regard to being able to beat Fat Boo that it was also in reference to their experience with Boo. When given the original statement we had from him in that he didn't know if it was possible to beat Boo. After their experience with Boo, Goku is more clued up on Boo's limitations and can now make an accurate assessment as to whether he could have beaten him or not.

[Geekdom101]

I never believed he really could've to be honest. The thing with Goku is that if he powers up to Full Power SSJ3, he may burn himself out like he did against Kid Buu, then he'd be easy pickings. Plus Majin Buu was WAY too durable.

[Khin]

I never believed he really could've to be honest. The thing with Goku is that if he powers up to Full Power SSJ3, he may burn himself out like he did against Kid Buu, then he'd be easy pickings. Plus Majin Buu was WAY too durable.

Goku is in his afterlife body when he fought Boo,you will not lose stamina when you are in an afterlife body.The only problem he will have is if Boo will keep coming back until his time to stay in the living world is up.

[rereboy]

I never believed he really could've to be honest. The thing with Goku is that if he powers up to Full Power SSJ3, he may burn himself out like he did against Kid Buu, then he'd be easy pickings. Plus Majin Buu was WAY too durable.

Goku is in his afterlife body when he fought Boo,you will not lose stamina when you are in an afterlife body.The only problem he will have is if Boo will keep coming back until his time to stay in the living world is up.

Running out of time due to his SSJ3 might be a bigger problem than running out of stamina while living. Goku was surprised after fighting Fat Buu about how much time he had lost thanks to his SSJ3.