The Tights issue

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Cypher
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The Tights issue

Post by Cypher » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:35 pm

OK, I had a look and found a little discussion of Tights here and there, but at the risk of being redundant I just wanted to raise a couple of issues I have with her here (feel free to tell me I'm talking through my hat, or whatever!). I liked the character; I guess what I don't like is what HASN'T been done with her.

As I understand it, she's 17 during the Jaco storyline, having graduated university. She participates in all Jaco's antics etc, and we see Bulma at the end, with their parents. We also learn that 10 years later she returns, and meets up with Omori, Katayude, and Jaco (and I think lives there?), and that she pesters Jaco to take her on trips from time to time. She's also a successful sci-fi author. Great; OK; this is all fine.

So, having watched the DBS episode where she appears (where is she supposed to be in that episode, by the way? Hawaii? Maybe that IS Omori's island. Hell, I lose track...) wouldn't it have been better/ more believable for Goku and Vegeta to have known/ known about Tights? I mean, naturally nothing whatever can be done about the fact that the character was created twenty years after DB ended, but surely such an insignificant retcon as Bulma saying 'yeah, my generally-absent sister who lives in space/ wherever most of the time comes to visit her only sister/ nephew/ aging parents from time to time despite her (seemingly entirely unnecessary, given the family's gigantic wealth) successful career as a sci-fi author' would have been acceptable? For Goku and Vegeta to react with such amazement just took me right out of the episode. I guess it's possible that Tights is just that cold, and never visits/ calls/ writes/ isn't in even one photograph (not even from their childhood!) in Bulma's house, but... I guess my issue is less that Vegeta doesn't know (another slightly different version of his wife milling around talking about whatever? Why should he care; time for training!), but presumably Trunks has no idea he even has an aunt, which seems strange to me. It's not even like Bulma doesn't give a crap about her family members, generally speaking, so for me a retcon of the nature outlined above would have worked better than the pointless 'revelation' of Tights, particularly given that the audience already knew all about her.

So what, she... lives on Omori's island (with Katayude still there? Presumably Omori is dead by now...), writing books whenever, and... never leaves? Not even for visits to family? Because she's, y'know, so busy, uh... occasionally writing well-received books, which she totally needs to prioritise, given what would otherwise be her total poverty due to her lack of connection to anyone really, really fucking rich, like, say, oh... Dr Brief. Oh, wait, no. My mistake. She's his daughter.

Really this only irritates me because it seems with a little more effort this kind of poor plotting could have been avoided, but in the event what we're left with is this whole rather unlikely scenario. It just occurred to me to wonder whether the absurdity of this was a sticking-point for anyone else, or if anyone could offer any kind of theory that would make it seem less... well, ludicrous, I guess.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:28 pm

Out of Universe explanation: From my experience, I never new about certain relatives of mine until my parent told me about them for the first time, and that was several years later in my teens, It didn't help that I never cared about those family details to begin with as well as them living far far away in other countries.

In Universe Explanation:Similar to the above, it's possible that Trunks, Vegeta (or any other character) just simply don't care about her linage, what do they gain from knowing that fact ? Why should they care in the first place ? Why would they ? Because even with my own friends I don't ask them who their Great Great Great grand father was and what he did ?
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Darkprince410
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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Darkprince410 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:38 pm

but presumably Trunks has no idea he even has an aunt, which seems strange to me. It's not even like Bulma doesn't give a crap about her family members, generally speaking, so for me a retcon of the nature outlined above would have worked better than the pointless 'revelation' of Tights, particularly given that the audience already knew all about her.
How do we know that Trunks doesn't know? Just because Vegeta doesn't know doesn't mean that Trunks was unaware of her. Given his continued insistence on training above all else, Vegeta may have simply been too preoccupied to see Tights any time Bulma went to visit her (or vice versa) and Bulma was just fed up with trying to get him involved.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by LightBing » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:50 pm

Dragon Ball is full of selfish characters that don't even bother taking a little bit of time to visit friends or family. Besides being capable of flying at insane speeds or possessing tools and techniques that allow a short voyage.
Tights is just another one of those people. I doubt she writes novels to make money, it's what she likes and that's it.
Bulma might not have told about her because it's someone who's not in her life. I can see her not coming up in conversations and family reunions. I mean, she didn't even thought of inviting her to the birthday party, that says a lot.

I can see how a family member from a main character appearing out of the blown is far-fetched. However it works in Dragon Ball, due to the characters general egocentric nature and communicating only in times of danger or celebration.

The only flaw is in the Saiyan arc, when Bulma should've remembered about Jaco, when the need to get a spaceship arouse.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:35 pm

It would have made more sense that if Tights is going to be a relative, she should have been a distant cousin. In that way, it would be okay that Bulma and Tights don't speak often enough, or even in the Buu Saga when everyone is getting ready to IT to the lookout, Bulma doesn't say "Oh hey, let's stop by Omori Island, let me pick up my cousin who I haven't seen in a couple decades." Cousins are cool like that. Close enough to be family, but far enough away to be friends, or worst, acquaintances.

Furthermore, There is no in universe way to explain the Tights issue period. She shouldn't even be around. For Tights to even exist, first she would have been conceived when Mrs. Brief was 12 years old.
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KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote: They[Bulma and Tights] are the best +40 years old chicks in all DB.
Bulma is 46 and Tights is 59-60
And Bulma and Tights' mom and dad are 71. That's mean they were both 12 when Tights was born.
And now that she's living on Earth now, second, she should have made her presence known a long long time ago. Think about it: It's the year 779-780 on Super and she's on Earth. And you know what else happened in the year 780? In the Mirai Timeline Gohan is killed by the Androids and Mirai Trunks becomes a Super Saiyan! So...was she of the first group killed? Wouldn't have Jaco investigated when not hearing about his friend, and find out that Earth is having a bad time? If Omori Island wasn't one of the first areas hit, shouldn't she have contacted Jaco? If Tights was offworld all this time and came back sometime during the Androids rampage, Shouldn't she have done something, namely finding her family, or trying to get as many people off world with the Galactic Patrol's help?Something should have happened whether Tights was in the background or not, forget if she's related to the Brief, what about when if she existed all this time?

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Zephyr » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

FoolsGil wrote:There is no in universe way to explain the Tights issue period.
Vegeta never cared to talk with Bulma about her siblings, and any time she was ever brought up or visited occurred off screen (and while Vegeta was training). Do we have any knock-down, damning, inarguable, explicitly shown evidence to the contrary? If not, then there is a plurality of in universe ways to explain Tights.
FoolsGil wrote:For Tights to even exist, first she would have been conceived when Mrs. Brief was 12 years old.
Technically possible in the real world. And if it's possible in the real world, it shouldn't be any sort of stretch to think that it's possible in the Dragon World.

It doesn't mater if necessary explanations cause the characters to receive new dimensions that make them seem like less likable people from one person's own individual outlook on what makes a person a jerk or not. That doesn't render the aforementioned necessary explanations poor ones.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:02 pm

Zephyr wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:There is no in universe way to explain the Tights issue period.
Vegeta never cared to talk with Bulma about her siblings, and any time she was ever brought up or visited occurred off screen (and while Vegeta was training). Do we have any knock-down, damning, inarguable, explicitly shown evidence to the contrary? If not, then there is a plurality of in universe ways to explain Tights.
Tights not being cared about when everything went bad in the Buu Saga? Tights nor Jaco not having a reasonable presence in the Mirai Timeline? Another one, via Lightbing:
LightBing wrote:The only flaw is in the Saiyan arc, when Bulma should've remembered about Jaco, when the need to get a spaceship arouse.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Zephyr » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:14 pm

She could have been out in space during any of those conflicts. Do we have any evidence of where she was during the Saiyan, Namek, Cell, or Buu arcs?

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:45 pm

FoolsGil wrote:Furthermore, There is no in universe way to explain the Tights issue period. She shouldn't even be around. For Tights to even exist, first she would have been conceived when Mrs. Brief was 12 years old.
Lord Beerus wrote:And Bulma and Tights' mom and dad are 71. That's mean they were both 12 when Tights was born.
What? Nothing prevents Tights from existing. The only information we have suggesting an age for their parents is a Q&A that mentions they are at least 70 by Battle of Gods. When did the rules change on what "at least X" means?

Even if you want to subscribe to the idea that they can't be older than 80 or that's the number that would have been used instead, you still have a range of 9 years. It only takes 1 year to get them to the Japanese age of consent for loving relationships or parental approval and 6 to get them to more of a world standard.

EDIT: Those year estimations are for their ages in AGE 737 too (which I should have double checked before even replying), when Jaco's manga takes place in AGE 739. It'd take even less to age them to something more appropriate because they'd be two years older.

**This means nothing for the anime though, but that timeline is already different from the manga (and more of a mess).
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Re: The Tights issue

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:53 am

Zephyr wrote:She could have been out in space during any of those conflicts. Do we have any evidence of where she was during the Saiyan, Namek, Cell, or Buu arcs?
We don't have evidence of where she was. But I mentioned that if she is on Earth now in one timeline, she would have been on Earth in all timelines, It's why I mentioned 779-780. The Champa arc takes place between at that date in the Main Timeline. In the Mirai Timeline, The Androids are rampaging at this time. If she's on Earth now presently in the main timeline, she would have been on Earth presently in the other timeline.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:What? Nothing prevents Tights from existing. The only information we have suggesting an age for their parents is a Q&A that mentions they are at least 70 by Battle of Gods. When did the rules change on what "at least X" means?
I know that in videogames, X is used as to represent numbers between 0 and 9, so you can argue that 'at least 70' can be anything from 70 to 79, but basic english rules state that "at least x" is actually just a couple years at the most. 74 would be pushing it when someone would say Dr. Brief is at least 70. Not only that, the number could go backwards to, so at least 70 could be that Brief could be 69, or 68, or 67. 66 would be pushing it going backwards: Basic rules of spoken English.

However, If it's easier to run with the idea of the Briefs being pre-pubescent to give birth to Tights, I suppose I won't use it as a defense. It is possible for those sort of things to happen in real life, after all.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Zephyr » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:12 am

FoolsGil wrote:We don't have evidence of where she was. But I mentioned that if she is on Earth now in one timeline, she would have been on Earth in all timelines, It's why I mentioned 779-780. The Champa arc takes place between at that date in the Main Timeline. In the Mirai Timeline, The Androids are rampaging at this time. If she's on Earth now presently in the main timeline, she would have been on Earth presently in the other timeline.
Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, it's possible she and Jaco died trying to help, behind the scenes? Or Jaco just said "nope, fuck this" the way he tried to do during Resurrection F. Or, perhaps the events of the Buu arc, or Battle of Gods, were the catalyst for Tights' return? There's seriously so many ways to explain this it's ridiculous.
FoolsGil wrote:basic english rules state that "at least x" is actually just a couple years at the most.
That's not true at all. "At least X" literally just means that X is the minimum. Establishing a floor has no bearing on where the ceiling is established.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:09 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
I know that in videogames, X is used as to represent numbers between 0 and 9, so you can argue that 'at least 70' can be anything from 70 to 79, but basic english rules state that "at least x" is actually just a couple years at the most. 74 would be pushing it when someone would say Dr. Brief is at least 70. Not only that, the number could go backwards to, so at least 70 could be that Brief could be 69, or 68, or 67. 66 would be pushing it going backwards: Basic rules of spoken English.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Even in terms of basic English rules, if something is "at least X", all it's saying is that the X value is the bare minimum it is. It's not putting any kind of real cap to it, be it soft or hard, and it's solely up to reader to make up their own cap, if any. In this case, the only logical way of taking it is that they're somewhere between 70 and 79 years old. That's it. Never have I seen it be some kind of rule where that only means the next few immediate values around it or anything along those lines, and certainly not values below it. "Least" is establishing the minimum value that X could be in that regard, so any value below it is automatically invalid.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Zephyr » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:17 pm

I think the more appropriate term would be "about". If the line said he was "about 70 years old", then it wouldn't be able to go much higher.

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Re: The Tights issue

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:10 am

Bulma didn't know about Tarble (Not that Vegeta was aware of his survival anyway). I don't think Vegeta would have ever asked about it, it's not like him to care. Not to mention the fact that Tights and Bulma live their own lives and don't have the need to talk all the time.

We know that she and Jaco go on adventures from time to time, so maybe when she was needed for missions like Namek etc, she was off-world.
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