I just want ONE transformation

[GodVegetto91]

Okay guys. You've probably seen me talk about it a couple of times over in the Manga's thread. And so i've decided to make an individual thread about it.

I just want ONE transformation! Is that too much to ask?
I was always under the impression that Akira Toriyama was getting tired of all these transformations. So he came up with the SSJG Concept. Allowing the user to absorb it's power and make it their own. So that there wouldn't be any need for further transformations. And that's where Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came in. The perfectly controlled and mastered God Form to END al transformations. I was really happy when i find out about SSGSS and how it's the perfect "way to go" form to be used for the remainder of the series. And to end all needles transformations. While still keeping the regular Super Saiyan form. Change it up a bit. Give it a blue color, call it God Power and Voila! You've got yourself a new "upgraded" version of Super Saiyan! That way he can still have his way with keeping regular Super Saiyan in while also basically showing us that they're on god level! It truly is the perfect concept!

As far as transformations go. I think One transformation truly is the best way to go. to keep it plain and simple. Fresh and clean!
But now with the latest "dissapointing" manga chapter they needlessly had to make everything so complicated and confusing by reintroducing the "regular" super saiyan form again! I'm just so tired of seeing the blonde/golden hair we've seen for decades already. It's time for something new. Creating SSGSS really was the perfect choise and "excuse" to keep super saiyan in while also adding something new to it in order to show that they're on God Level. Because it's basically still normal Super Saiyan.. Albeit powered by God Ki. It's just Super Saiyan using a different power source. And that concept is just awesome!

Having Both SSGSS and normal SSJ is just one transformation too much imo. And i want only One. now Goku's got two choises. And i don't really like that concept. Also in most fiction most transforming type characters also have just one form.

I also believe Akira Toriyama and Toei have a thing for the regular Super Saiyan form.. Like they're just to fond of it. And are stuck in nostalgia mode. (Just because it's iconic)

What do you guys think?
Don't you guys agree that having One Ultimate transformation is a cool concept and keeps things simple?

[Lord Beerus]

There is never going to be just one transformation, unless Bandai say so.

[GodVegetto91]

There is never going to be just one transformation, unless Bandai say so.

It's Akira Toriyama's story.
In the end HE decides. They can't do anything against him other than being a pain in the ass or use some light threats.

And besides there are TONS of ways and reasons to sell more merchandise. Introducing new Characters. (We've got 12 universes now) re-selling all of Goku's different forms. And they can just allow dragon ball heroes to give Goku a new form aswell. Voila! Problem solved. There really is NO need to specifically give Goku a new form in Super JUST BECAUSE Bandai insists!

Akira Toriyama decides where his story is headed. And he's already been nice to them for the last few years by creating SSG AND SSGSS. That should do it now for years.

[Ajay]

It's a good way to go, yes. The formula of transformation after transformation is stale now. What was fresh in the 90s doesn't necessarily work when its influence turned it into an overdone staple of the genre.

When I read Toriyama's interview where he said:

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out.

I thought, "Wow, that's great. He's absorbed a form that made him more powerful than anything that had come before. That's a great way to move forward." Of course, this all went out of the window with SSJ Blue. But part of me figured that wasn't a bad way to keep idea going while also creating a new iconic look for the show. Only on the condition that the previous forms were no longer necessary, however.

With the potential of Super Saiyan and all of its many variations still being a thing, it's all becoming too much for me. I love those forms, I really do, but I understand that's purely fan service, and really doesn't make for great writing.

I get the feeling that the lack of shading in the manga and the upcoming episode titles mean this is about to become an unfortunate reality. I totally understand why from a marketing perspective, but I don't like it.

It's time to let go of the past and move the series in a direction that works for a show written in 2016.

[Kaboom]

Well, technically they are only using one form... Bluper Saiyan isn't really a form in and of itself, it's just using the Super Saiyan form to channel their Super Saiyan God power.

But semantics aside, I think the two-form system they seem to have now is a pretty good balance. Goku and Vegeta both still have regular Super Saiyan for less relatively dangerous foes. It comes naturally to them ever since the Cell arc, it grants a pretty large increase in raw power (assuming the 50x boost is still intact at all), really has no drawbacks, and it has easily the most iconic appearance of all the transformations.

Then when things get really serious, they tap into that god-ki and give Super Saiyan that nifty ethereal blue and the power that comes with it. There's no more need for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 (which does disappoint me, as I love those forms too), since if Goku and Vegeta need more power than regular SS1 provides, then tapping into their godly power instead is a better option.

[Ajay]

I suppose I never really considered that perspective, actually.

I think I'd be okay with regular, Super Saiyan, and then Super Saiyan Blue. That's a reasonable simplification of it all.

If we keep the other ones away and don't move forwards, then that's good enough for me.

[GodVegetto91]

Well, technically they are only using one form... Bluper Saiyan isn't really a form in and of itself, it's just using the Super Saiyan form to channel their Super Saiyan God power.

But semantics aside, I think the two-form system they seem to have now is a pretty good balance. Goku and Vegeta both still have regular Super Saiyan for less relatively dangerous foes. It comes naturally to them ever since the Cell arc, it grants a pretty large increase in raw power (assuming the 50x boost is still intact at all), really has no drawbacks, and it has easily the most iconic appearance of all the transformations.

Then when things get really serious, they tap into that god-ki and give Super Saiyan that nifty ethereal blue and the power that comes with it. There's no more need for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 (which does disappoint me, as I love those forms too), since if Goku and Vegeta need more power than regular SS1 provides, then tapping into their godly power instead is a better option.

Except that it's still a different variation. And that still makes 2 versions/options Goku can choose from. Which.. I personally don't like at all. That's not my ideal situation but okay.

As for the 50x multiplier.. You seriously don't believe that still holds right!? It's absolutely impossible now since Goku absorbed MOST of it's power in Base. Judging by it's feats i put Base Goku(BoG) fairly close to SSJ God itself. (Around 90%+)
That's certainly what's implied. And many fans agree with me on that one aswell. (Heck, it's not even a 2x multiplier now!)

[GodVegetto91]

It's a good way to go, yes. The formula of transformation after transformation is stale now. What was fresh in the 90s doesn't necessarily work when its influence turned it into an overdone staple of the genre.

When I read Toriyama's interview where he said:

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out.

I thought, "Wow, that's great. He's absorbed a form that made him more powerful than anything that had come before. That's a great way to move forward." Of course, this all went out of the window with SSJ Blue. But part of me figured that wasn't a bad way to keep idea going while also creating a new iconic look for the show. Only on the condition that the previous forms were no longer necessary, however.

With the potential of Super Saiyan and all of its many variations still being a thing, it's all becoming too much for me. I love those forms, I really do, but I understand that's purely fan service, and really doesn't make for great writing.

I get the feeling that the lack of shading in the manga and the upcoming episode titles mean this is about to become an unfortunate reality. I totally understand why from a marketing perspective, but I don't like it.

It's time to let go of the past and move the series in a direction that works for a show written in 2016.

So you agree then?
Great!

[Chuquita]

Unless it really was a miscolored bluper saiyan in chapter 9, I'm still backing my theory that Toriyama is going the long way around in an effort to get rid of the god forms in favor of regular ssj because the idea of god forms were BOG's original script writer's idea, not his.

I would bet bluper will be gone for good by the end of this arc the same way ssjg is.

I don't think it has anything to do with GT, I think it's purely Toriyama not wanting to be stuck with someone else's ideas that he might not care for personally, but had to use at the time because Shueisha had gone forward with the ssjg idea before Toriyama got involved in BOG.

[GodVegetto91]

Unless it really was a miscolored bluper saiyan in chapter 9, I'm still backing my theory that Toriyama is going the long way around in an effort to get rid of the god forms in favor of regular ssj because the idea of god forms were BOG's original script writer's idea, not his.

I would bet bluper will be gone for good by the end of this arc the same way ssjg is.

I don't think it has anything to do with GT, I think it's purely Toriyama not wanting to be stuck with someone else's ideas that he might not care for personally, but had to use at the time because Shueisha had gone forward with the ssjg idea before Toriyama got involved in BOG.

I'd like to think that Akira Toriyama is the one who came up with such an awesome concept. Just to give him more credit. But i'm leaning more towards your theory that it were really Bandai/Shueshia (Or Whoever is in charge of the Merchandising xD) because they're the ones who would do anything to create a new form to be able to sell more merchandise.

[Kaboom]

As for the 50x multiplier.. You seriously don't believe that still holds right!?

With how Super's been so vague and unwilling to actually explain anything, I'm not jumping to any conclusions or counting anything out. Or even bothering to think or care much about it in the first place, honestly.

For all we know, Goku and Vegeta's "normal" power still isn't too different from the Boo arc, and the only major difference is whether they choose to also use god-ki or not.

[GodVegetto91]

As for the 50x multiplier.. You seriously don't believe that still holds right!?

With how Super's been so vague and unwilling to actually explain anything, I'm not jumping to any conclusions or counting anything out. Or even bothering to think or care much about it in the first place, honestly.

For all we know, Goku and Vegeta's "normal" power still isn't too different from the Boo arc, and the only major difference is whether they choose to also use god-ki or not.

A 50x multiplier is absolutely out of the question. (Not possible at all)
Anything other than that..
Well let's just say that there's certainly a whole lot more "heavy" hints/implications/evidence suggesting that their Base Forms became super-duper powerful than anything else.

[Cipher]

It's a five-man tournament. On the odds one of his opponents can sense ki, isn't it possible he's just playing the long con by both suppressing his base power and using a non-godly form of Super Saiyan?

How is this any different from all the other times characters have revealed they've only been fighting at "50%," etc.? People are assuming base Goku can't fight at a level weaker than he did against Beerus and Freeza, but there's no reason for that to be the case; characters have always been able to control their strength and ki output to various levels, often to hold back on revealing their true power.

Frost may be significantly weaker than Freeza. We don't know yet.

[Kaboom]

A 50x multiplier is absolutely out of the question. (Not possible at all)

Nothing is out of the question or impossible when practically nothing has been actually explained. A week ago I'm sure plenty of people thought that there was no way Goku would ever use regular Super Saiyan again, and now that's been flipped on its head.

[GodVegetto91]

A 50x multiplier is absolutely out of the question. (Not possible at all)

Nothing is out of the question or impossible when practically nothing has been actually explained. A week ago I'm sure plenty of people thought that there was no way Goku would ever use regular Super Saiyan again, and now that's been flipped on its head.

Oh yes it is. Many people(myself included) argue over the idea that the multiplier is even far less than 2x. And here you come with a 50x multiplier which should make absolutely no sense at all.
Because in Battle of Gods(Movie Version) Base Goku was shown to be able to hold his own against a powered up Beerus(who showed NO sign of powering down at all) as he was currently attacking at the moment Goku's God Form wore of. Base Goku even got a very good shot in on Beerus. He punched him soo hard in the gut, Beerus litterally went berserk and started throwing energy blasts in all directions. (This was 60-70% Power Beerus)
Now let me ask you this..
If THAT Base Goku literally became 50 times stronger.. Than even Whis would be squashed like a bug by Goku using far less then 10%.

[Ajay]

Can we not ruin this thread with an asinine power debate. This was much more interesting when it was being spoken about from a concept/storytelling point of view.

[GodVegetto91]

You're right. There was something i had to deal with first. But now i'm moving on.
Anyways, Does anyone else have an oponion about this concept of having one ultimate transformation?

[Kaboom]

If THAT Base Goku literally became 50 times stronger.. Than even Whis would be squashed like a bug by Goku using far less then 10%.

"That" Goku would still be using some amount of godly ki, albeit starting to slip away at that point. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that for all we know, the godly ki Goku possesses has become (or maybe always was) completely separate from his normal mortal ki, and Goku has a choice whether to use it or not.

So he may now have a choice of "Base -> Beyond God (using some god-ki) -> SSGSS (using all his god-ki)" or "Base -> Super Saiyan." Which would be different from when he fought Beerus, where he would still be using some godly ki when he unconsciously went Super Saiyan. Or maybe Goku's "base" form actually has become way stronger than before, but is still more than 50x weaker than Beerus.

Either way, without the use of any god-ki, regular Super Saiyan may still be the same ol' 50x boost that it always was before. This isn't necessarily fact, but it's all totally possible. Pretty much anything is, until Super decides to firmly explain just how it all works. I suspect they probably never will.

Whiiiiich all ties back into the original question. You seemed to be under the assumption that Goku's normal ki was completely replaced with god-ki, miffed that SSGSS wasn't just an outright permanent replacement for Super Saiyan, and confused that regular Super Saiyan was even still an option. But that's evidently not the case, so here's an explanation of just one way it could all work. Ta-da?

[Xeztin]

I think it's going to be Base>SSJ>Blue SSJ from now on as SSJ may be drawing from God Ki while Blue SSJ is infused with it. The yellow SSJ could have been the one that absorbed the God Ki against Beerus, so the Yellow SSJ may be equal to SSG. The Blue SSJ could be looked at as SSJ2 I suppose stronger then the former, I think we are using colors now instead of numbers and hair growth to keep it from getting out of control at SSJ1231230 and being a ridiculous number like Super Saiyan 6 and hair that covers the Earth. Do I think it will be the last transformation? Probably not, especially if this show's main purpose is to push merch sales. Also, I think the Yellow SSJ was meant to be discarded forever when Blue came along, this may be Toei's marketing strategy to sell Yellow SSJ with their new outfits.

[GodVegetto91]

If THAT Base Goku literally became 50 times stronger.. Than even Whis would be squashed like a bug by Goku using far less then 10%.

"That" Goku would still be using some amount of godly ki, albeit starting to slip away at that point. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that for all we know, the godly ki Goku possesses has become (or maybe always was) completely separate from his normal mortal ki, and Goku has a choice whether to use it or not.

So he may now have a choice of "Base -> Beyond God (using some god-ki) -> SSGSS (using all his god-ki)" or "Base -> Super Saiyan." Which would be different from when he fought Beerus, where he would still be using some godly ki when he unconsciously went Super Saiyan. Or maybe Goku's "base" form actually has become way stronger than before, but is still more than 50x weaker than Beerus.

Either way, without the use of any god-ki, regular Super Saiyan may still be the same ol' 50x boost that it always was before. This isn't necessarily fact, but it's all totally possible. Pretty much anything is, until Super decides to firmly explain just how it all works. I suspect they probably never will.

Whiiiiich all ties back into the original question. You seemed to be under the assumption that Goku's normal ki was completely replaced with god-ki, miffed that SSGSS wasn't just an outright permanent replacement for Super Saiyan, and confused that regular Super Saiyan was even still an option. But that's evidently not the case, so here's an explanation of just one way it could all work. Ta-da?

The point is. (After absorbing SSJ God power) that Goku has God Ki INSIDE his body. In Base and Regular Super Saiyan. The "Outside" ki you see is definitely normal ki. (White aura for Base, Gold for SSJ) but the reason both Base Goku and Super Saiyan are so strong. Is because he absorbed God Ki INSIDE his body. But while using those forms. The "outside ki" is still normal. And only by becoming SSGSS he litterally "brings out" the God Ki. (Hence the Blue colored Aura and hair) it's now on the "outside" in that God Form.