Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

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Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:40 pm

Just been reviewing Beerus lists of feats and they're pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

-Plays games with King Kai
-Shrank King Kai's planet to its current size
-Sealed Old Kai in the Z sword (Who said Buu was stronger than Beerus at the time)
-Ordered the destruction of Planet Vegeta and the Saiyans
-Beat Frieza
-Honor Feast by King Vegeta
-Beats King Vegeta over a Pillow
-Beats young Prince Vegeta
-Wipes out the Dinosaurs.

Basically has everybody scared when he's around.
We've heard how Frieza was the strongest(natural being) in the universe which was true in Z
Then we get Monaka out of nowhere. We have story telling where SSG according to Toriyama made Beerus use 70% of his power or that Goku is a 6 compared to beerus as a 10.
Where does that put SSB, and more than that where does that put Monaka??? We haven't even seen the results of their training yet but if 3 years in the RoSaT gives them less then double their power at SSB levels what was even the point? Further we have Whis who is a 15 compared to Beerus and he has knocked him out in a single blow but doesn't have a single accomplishment/feat listed. Has he literally just been the most powerful being in the universe by a decent margin and basically did nothing but server Beerus hand and foot.

Everything seems like if there is some unanswered question the answer is Beerus did it... I hate it and consider it incredibly lazy story writing but I'm sure those who use the hashtag "GodTier" may be enjoying it at present. Thoughts? Also the complete and total disrespect to Vegeta is appalling.... Calling him servant boy, etc. What the heck happened to Vegeta's pride??

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:26 pm

Well, as you can tell by my username and avatar, I love Beerus, and one of the reasons I love the character so much is because how much he contributes to the universe and making it feel larger than it is. I don't mind most of his contribution or feats like wrecking King Kai's planet, wiping out the dinosaurs, making King Vegeta his bitch and sealing Old Kai in the sword, because in the grand scheme of thing, they are ultimately minor events.

However, the one event that really didn't sit well with me that was Beerus telling Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta. I've already gone into detail about why I hate that revelation in another thread:
Honestly, I hate it. Yeah, I understand they want to include Beerus in as much lore as possible to make his stance in the universe more significant, but there is line that needs to be drawn. The revelation that Beerus told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta just kills any sort of irony or drama the Freeza arc had, and it undermines all of the antagonism that Freeza had towards the Saiyans and Bardock, Goku and Vegeta had to Freeza. And that by default make their stories with Freeza much less meaningful. I much prefer the vague implications that Beerus perhaps had some influence in the destruction of Planet Vegeta, than Super just outright stating that Beerus did tell Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta. But even then, just the mere implication that Beerus may have involved in the destruction of Planet Vegeta just doesn't sit well with me. And the fact that Freeza got his ass kicked by Beerus before he supposedly told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta and the fact that his father warned him never to challenge him, just makes it even worse.
But other than that, I'm completely fine and content with Beerus' contributions to the lore of Dragon Ball. Besides, there have been much worse cases of characters being shoehorned into stories or lore of Dragon Ball.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:35 pm

^ can you give me some examples of worse?
Even the namekians making the dragonballs in Z didn't feel forced at all but actually felt very organic and increased the significance of Piccolo greatly. It built upon the lore already established in Dragonball organically withou feeling forced.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Xeztin » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:43 pm

It's known that Toriyama likes to make use of things, in one of his interviews he was like wait this guy is still alive I'll use him. He likes to go back and make use of things that were left on a cliff hanger. I think him making Beerus the cause of all these things is a perfect example of that, and makes him fearful all at the same time. If he just came out of nowhere (like Monaka) and had no backstory and the Kai's didn't even know of his existence then that'd be lazy to me.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:14 pm

My issue isn't necessarily the feats themselves, rather he's unnecessarily added to things we didn't have questions to. I.e the size of King Kai's planet. The dinosaurs. Old Kai in the Z sword.
The worse for me is having him actually be at a party hosted by Vegeta's father in Beerus honor only to watch his father beaten by his guest over a pillow. To the point where An enraged young Vegeta attempts to fight him.
Fast forward and the prince of Saiyans, now a legendary super Saiyan no less suffered those indignations plus Beerus disrespect to his wife and still allows Beerus to literally use him as a footstool and call him names. Shoehorning Beerus into the background has literally made Vegeta look incredibly stupid and weak. Not in power level but in his defining characteristic which was his immense pride. If this is part of Vegeta's character development and can honestly say Vegeta suddenly being a pansy without any traumatic experience to go along with it is pretty poor writing in my opinion.

But anyway, if it were jus one or even a few I wouldn't take issue with it. But for him to do so many of this things randomly feels completely forced and inorganic.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:29 pm

Can't wait till it's revealed Beerus gave Dr. Gero the blueprints to create the androids and told Babidi where Buu was located in exchange for food.
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Jeff Styles » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:26 pm

It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by innocent_rage » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:46 pm

All lazy story telling imo ,there's no reason why beerus should be this damn powerful , look how God characters worked in the DB/DBZ/DBGT story before.
All the gods were useless but strong enough to carry on their duties,so what makes beerus so special , I know he's the god of destruction but its pointless.why does beerus need to be 10000x stronger then ssj3 goku ,just so he can destroy a few planets and kill fodders every decade or so.

-King kai = nappa level
-grand kai = maybe frieza's level
-supreme kai = Piccolo level strength


The god of destruction should be around majin buu's level of strength ,that is plenty of power to keep the balance in the world ,there's no need for beerus to be this outrageously strong to destroy puny planets. :problem:

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:27 am

Jeff Styles wrote:It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,
Beerus is a brilliant scientist, after all.
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:51 am

Jeff Styles wrote:It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Jeff Styles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:06 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Jeff Styles wrote:It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,
Beerus is a brilliant scientist, after all.
Lol. Ocean dub Vegeta was funny.
apex_pretador wrote:
Jeff Styles wrote:It all about Beerus! I can't wait until it reveal that Beerus gave Master Mutaito the Mafūba, is the cause of the cataclysm on Planet Namek, and created the artificial moon,
Image
DB Multiverse is gonna have some good laughs with Beerus.
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Darkprince410 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:55 am

TheMikado wrote: -Sealed Old Kai in the Z sword (Who said Buu was stronger than Beerus at the time)
His statement wasn't necessarily that Buu was stronger than Beerus was at the time. He speaks of the individual being ridiculously strong and bad, and then says not as much as Buu. As such, it's readily possible that he's meaning that Beerus simply wasn't "as bad" as Buu is, and doesn't mean anything regarding his strength.

Alternately, why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to legitimately have been weaker than Buu back then? We're talking about millions upon millions of years between Beerus back then and Buu at that point (after all, Rou Kaioushin is 16 generations older than the current East Kaioushin, who himself was millions of years old by his appearance in the Buu Saga), so why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to have simply grown stronger between then and now?

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:57 am

Darkprince410 wrote:
TheMikado wrote: -Sealed Old Kai in the Z sword (Who said Buu was stronger than Beerus at the time)
His statement wasn't necessarily that Buu was stronger than Beerus was at the time. He speaks of the individual being ridiculously strong and bad, and then says not as much as Buu. As such, it's readily possible that he's meaning that Beerus simply wasn't "as bad" as Buu is, and doesn't mean anything regarding his strength.

Alternately, why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to legitimately have been weaker than Buu back then? We're talking about millions upon millions of years between Beerus back then and Buu at that point (after all, Rou Kaioushin is 16 generations older than the current East Kaioushin, who himself was millions of years old by his appearance in the Buu Saga), so why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to have simply grown stronger between then and now?
exactly.
Seeing how goku & vegeta grew from freeza level to SBG level, it doesn't sound far fetched for beerus to grow from maybe SS3 level to beerus level
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Jeff Styles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:10 am

Darkprince410 wrote:
TheMikado wrote: -Sealed Old Kai in the Z sword (Who said Buu was stronger than Beerus at the time)
His statement wasn't necessarily that Buu was stronger than Beerus was at the time. He speaks of the individual being ridiculously strong and bad, and then says not as much as Buu. As such, it's readily possible that he's meaning that Beerus simply wasn't "as bad" as Buu is, and doesn't mean anything regarding his strength.

Alternately, why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to legitimately have been weaker than Buu back then? We're talking about millions upon millions of years between Beerus back then and Buu at that point (after all, Rou Kaioushin is 16 generations older than the current East Kaioushin, who himself was millions of years old by his appearance in the Buu Saga), so why wouldn't it be possible for Beerus to have simply grown stronger between then and now?

The Viz Edition put it as "a terrible bad guy. Almost as terrible as Boo!".

It plausible Beerus was indeed weaker than Boo at that point. Elder Kaioshin spoke of him being scared of his ability of making someone stronger. Yet when Beerus wake up in Super, he seek to find a rival. It seems the Boo who was stronger than Beerus was Kid Boo as neither Beerus or Whis recognized Good Boo when on Earth.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Darkprince410 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:26 am

Jeff Styles wrote:
The Viz Edition put it as "a terrible bad guy. Almost as terrible as Boo!".

It plausible Beerus was indeed weaker than Boo at that point. Elder Kaioshin spoke of him being scared of his ability of making someone stronger. Yet when Beerus wake up in Super, he seek to find a rival. It seems the Boo who was stronger than Beerus was Kid Boo as neither Beerus or Whis recognized Good Boo when on Earth.
Rou Kaioushin was referring to the Fat Buu, as that was the current Buu that was ravaging the Earth at the time that he was freed. His statement was in reference to Beerus way back when he (Rou Kaioushin) was sealed in comparison to Buu at the time that he was freed, not in comparison to Buu's strength way back then. In fact, we know for certain that it wasn't related to Pure Buu at all, because when that Buu formed after Goku and Vegeta freed Mr. Buu, Rou Kaioushin had no knowledge of him whatsoever.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:04 am

TheMikado wrote:^ can you give me some examples of worse?
Even the namekians making the dragonballs in Z didn't feel forced at all but actually felt very organic and increased the significance of Piccolo greatly. It built upon the lore already established in Dragonball organically withou feeling forced.
Literally everything about the Android/Cell arc. Dr Gero, Cell, the existence of Future Trunks and the time travelling shenanigans responsible for cobbling the plot together. And the Majin Boo arc felt as though we needed another race of Gods because... reasons.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:33 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ can you give me some examples of worse?
Even the namekians making the dragonballs in Z didn't feel forced at all but actually felt very organic and increased the significance of Piccolo greatly. It built upon the lore already established in Dragonball organically withou feeling forced.
Literally everything about the Android/Cell arc. Dr Gero, Cell, the existence of Future Trunks and the time travelling shenanigans responsible for cobbling the plot together. And the Majin Boo arc felt as though we needed another race of Gods because... reasons.
I'd say Boo works fine in that "ancient sealed evil" kind of way but yeah, the Android arc is forced story-telling incarnate and at least the anime introducing Supreme Kai let us know that the Gods have some kind of hierarchy.
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:45 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
TheMikado wrote:^ can you give me some examples of worse?
Even the namekians making the dragonballs in Z didn't feel forced at all but actually felt very organic and increased the significance of Piccolo greatly. It built upon the lore already established in Dragonball organically withou feeling forced.
Literally everything about the Android/Cell arc. Dr Gero, Cell, the existence of Future Trunks and the time travelling shenanigans responsible for cobbling the plot together. And the Majin Boo arc felt as though we needed another race of Gods because... reasons.
I'd say Boo works fine in that "ancient sealed evil" kind of way but yeah, the Android arc is forced story-telling incarnate and at least the anime introducing Supreme Kai let us know that the Gods have some kind of hierarchy.
If any arc ruined the flow of the story of Dragon Ball it was definitely the Android/Cell arc. It just felt so out of place.

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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by Gorou » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:20 am

I only wish that in the future there will be explained the effective usefulness of these gods of destruction in the general scenario.
Because their presence is required? How they balance the universe?
Because, for now, Beerus seems only the classic overpower character egocentric, thought only to be many stronger than Goku.
If any arc ruined the flow of the story of Dragon Ball it was definitely the Android/Cell arc.
How?
Objectively speaking, has not ruined anything
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Re: Beerus Did It -Overpowered Feats or Lazy Storytelling?

Post by TheMikado » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 am

ekrolo2 wrote: I'd say Boo works fine in that "ancient sealed evil" kind of way but yeah, the Android arc is forced story-telling incarnate and at least the anime introducing Supreme Kai let us know that the Gods have some kind of hierarchy.
I agree, the android arc is my least favorite. However, it didn't do wonky things like saying it sent a signal into space to draw Frieza to earth to get its DNA, or indicated it traveled to Namek in either Goku or Bulma's spacecraft. Regardless of the timesplitting craziness it didn't force itself into the background of other arcs it had no business in. I would much rather that then this "Beerus did it" shenanigans we have now.

Also I see I was not the first to feel this way. Bravo on the parody comics... I have to be honest, Beerus feels like a fanboy write-in if a 12 year old we give complete creative control. "I'm going to make a Super God who is so powerful that he literal does everything. Then I'm going to make Goku even more powerful and turn his hair BLUE!" 10 years ago we would have all thought a pre-teen wrote that overview.

Last rant. At least in the cell saga the Z fighters like Tien played a part and fought Cell Jrs. Even in the Buu saga they were participating in the tournament. So they had some value. Not to mention they lore established in DB was called back for these two arcs. The Red Ribbon army and the World's Martial Arts Tournament. Beerus and his infinite capacity to do anything has made the main traditional characters not even factors at all. You could make the same argument for GT but most of the lower enemies were Majin Boo level and below so if they weren't outrageously overpowered, nor did we find out Dr. Myuu had secretly given Dr. Gero the plans for Cell, 17, and 18 in the past.

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