Which Super Saiyan form did Gohan use against Dabra?

[Khin]

An old debate.I really need a solid answer for this.

[Kaboom]

Hoooo boy.

The best answer I think can be offered, and the only one I've ever thought necessary, is this:

Spoiler:

In the manga, there's a very, VERY clear and consistent difference in how Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2 are each drawn. We even have a character (Goku there) explicitly demonstrate and label each form, just as much for our sake as Boo's in that scene. Gohan is clearly and undeniably drawn like a regular Super Saiyan instead of a Super Saiyan 2, and if you ask me that easily trumps any minor hangups about what the plot would supposedly require.

[rereboy]

- Gohan clearly used SSJ2 in the tournament;

- What Gohan used in the tournament was clearly different from what he used agaisnt Dabra;

- There is no reason for Gohan to not try his hardest against someone comparable to Cell;

- It's stated or implied that Gohan is having some trouble fighting as hard as he can because he is having trouble getting in the right mindset (angry).

This leaves me to conclude that, even though Gohan was trying to fight to his fullest, he wasn't actually managing to reach his proper full SSJ2 power. That means that he was using more power than his normal SSJ1, but he wasn't quite managing to reach his full SSJ2 power. He was kind of halfway there, or close to SSJ2, but not quite there, kind of a SSJ1.5 or SSJ1.8. Hence the visual differences, namely the lack of sparks.

[Kamiccolo9]

This topic gives me flashbacks. I'm gonna crawl into a fetal position now.

SSJ1, for the same reasons Kaboom gave.

[Desassina]

He was a SSJ, but depending on how you like to frame things, his power could have been the same, without the benefits of a strength increase. Perhaps that's enough of a reason for Gotenks to go SSJ3 by skipping SSJ2, because if it must waste energy, then at least get your job done faster. In other words:

- Use SSJ with power equivalent to that of a SSJ2, but without a strength increase or energy cap;
- Use SSJ3 when it's powerful and strong enough to beat the opponent, despite the huge energy cap.

Since Gohan had no SSJ3, he sticked to (a rather unkempt) SSJ with full power, or close to it. The art is consistent with this, and the story helps somehow.

[NitroEX]

Most people seem to agree that it's SSJ based on the way he's drawn during the fight and I would agree with this.

Obviously it doesn't make logical sense for Gohan to hold back against Dabura and the dialogue alluding to him not being able to access his full power is contradicted by the earlier scene where he demonstrates SS2 for Kibito.

In my opinion this is just a case of Toriyama contradicting himself within in his own story. Whether he did it intentionally or not is another question but it seems to me that he changed his mind and gave Gohan a sudden limitation to artificially increase drama.

The only decent in-universe explanation I've seen is that Videl's defeat at the tournament made Gohan angry enough to access SS2 but even that's a stretch when you consider she was already healed by Gohan's senzu bean. There doesn't really seem to be an adequate explanation for it as far as I can tell and it's one of those situations where I have to just say "Toriyama fucked up".

[Duo]

Gohan states, before using the Kamehameha against the Buu ball, that he can't get angry like Goku suggested because he doesn't want to make the same mistakes he did before (aka getting his dad & Trunks killed along with almost everybody else). This clearly would have been in effect during his fight with Dabra as well, so he was just a Super Saiyan. The artwork is clear on the matter, and there's no contradiction when you consider the character motivations going on.

Even if he went Ssj2 at the tournament, that's not the type of setting with a heavy risk involved in using that power. Gohan has a bit of PTSD, it seems like.

[ZombieVito]

A fairly even battle unfolded between him and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Afterwards, he sensed that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous, and tried to defeat him, but was turned into a cookie and eaten. Despite being the strongest in the Demon Realm, feared even by Kaioshin, he came to an extremely pathetic end...

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Gohan states, before using the Kamehameha against the Buu ball, that he can't get angry like Goku suggested because he doesn't want to make the same mistakes he did before (aka getting his dad & Trunks killed along with almost everybody else). This clearly would have been in effect during his fight with Dabra as well, so he was just a Super Saiyan. The artwork is clear on the matter, and there's no contradiction when you consider the character motivations going on.

Even if he went Ssj2 at the tournament, that's not the type of setting with a heavy risk involved in using that power. Gohan has a bit of PTSD, it seems like.

Gohan just says he is angry, but not angry like he was back when he fought Cell. Kaioshin also said Kibito wasn't around to see Gohan's unbelievable power. This part of the story is just a mess no matter how you look at it.

[apex_pretador]

Gohan used Super Saiyan form, but he was more powerful than super saiyan 2 form in it.

- He was the one who wanted to fight dabura ALONE
- He was the one who wanted to revive krillin & Piccolo as soon as possible
- He used SS2 while lol'ing at tournament
- He had no reason to hold back
- He doesn't want dabura to damage him

- Goku flat-out called dabura superior to FP PC
- Gohan as super saiyan even as a kid, wasn't close to full powered cell, and in buu arc, he was MUCH weaker.
- Gohan was somewhat at a disadvantage in overall fight, and used a lot of energy. No reason to hold back if possible



- He was drawn as super saiyan
- He specifically notes that goku & vegeta fought as SS2, hence the damage meter for buu fills up.

[Blade]

Oh hell, it's back.

- Logically, given the whole Cell comparison of Dabra's strength, it should have been Super Saiyan 2.
- But.... on the paper it's drawn, it's a regular Super Saiyan (we see Gohan go Super Saiyan 2 a few chapters prior at the Tenkaichi Budokai, and there is a clear artistic difference.)

Did Toriyama forget the sparks? Did he just have no idea how strong he actually wanted Dabra to really be? Did he want to hold back on the Super Saiyan 2 stuff to add more dramatic tension to Goku and Vegeta's little dust-up? Or did he just give the whole darned thing no thought whatsoever?

Who knows.

[Duo]

Goku saying Dabra is about as strong as Cell is an incredibly vague statement.

[Blade]

Goku saying Dabra is about as strong as Cell is an incredibly vague statement.

It's hyperbolic from an authorial perspective; it ramps up the tension by rendering the danger that the protagonists find themselves in as being equal to, or greater than, anything that has come before.

It's a quick and easy narrative device aimed at the readership - the only problem is that when its considered outside of isolation as a throwaway remark, it has in-universe consequences on established logic, and, *shudders* power levels.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm sticking by stance that Gohan was SSJ when he battled Dabra. I'm honestly not going take what other sources may say in their interpretation of the circumstances of the battle. The manga is ultimately the original story and Toriyama showed on several occasions in the manga that he clearly knew what the distinct difference(s) was between SSJ and SSJ2 was and explicitly draws Gohan as a SSJ.

[Bansho64]

He was definitely a normal SSJ. The art points to it and while Goku did say he was as strong as Cell, he didn't specify which form.

[Khin]

About Goku saying Dabra's about as strong as Cell.We can just say Goku assumed that Dabra was as strong as the Cell that fought him.That way,it makes sense as to why SSj Gohan was able to keep up against him.Though Goku stated that he was way stronger than he thought.

A fairly even battle unfolded between him and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Afterwards, he sensed that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous, and tried to defeat him, but was turned into a cookie and eaten. Despite being the strongest in the Demon Realm, feared even by Kaioshin, he came to an extremely pathetic end...

Where is this from ?

[Ash57]

Daizenshuu 7 states that he was a Super Saiyan 2. Again, Daizenshuu 2 implied that he was Super Saiyan. Oh well.

But seriously, Gohan was SSj but SHOULD have been SSj2. The plot doesn't work AT ALL with him SSj.

[Lord Beerus]

But seriously, Gohan was SSj but SHOULD have been SSj2. The plot doesn't work AT ALL with him SSj.

I don't see how that's the case. It was clearly stated several times that Gohan needed to get angry to tap into his SSJ2 strength, but simply couldn't do so as a result of years of not training.

[ZombieVito]

About Goku saying Dabra's about as strong as Cell.We can just say Goku assumed that Dabra was as strong as the Cell that fought him.That way,it makes sense as to why SSj Gohan was able to keep up against him.Though Goku stated that he was way stronger than he thought.

A fairly even battle unfolded between him and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Afterwards, he sensed that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous, and tried to defeat him, but was turned into a cookie and eaten. Despite being the strongest in the Demon Realm, feared even by Kaioshin, he came to an extremely pathetic end...

Where is this from ?

Dabra's Daizenshuu 7 bio.

[Pantalones]

- Gohan clearly used SSJ2 in the tournament;

- What Gohan used in the tournament was clearly different from what he used agaisnt Dabra;

- There is no reason for Gohan to not try his hardest against someone comparable to Cell;

- It's stated or implied that Gohan is having some trouble fighting as hard as he can because he is having trouble getting in the right mindset (angry).

This leaves me to conclude that, even though Gohan was trying to fight to his fullest, he wasn't actually managing to reach his proper full SSJ2 power. That means that he was using more power than his normal SSJ1, but he wasn't quite managing to reach his full SSJ2 power. He was kind of halfway there, or close to SSJ2, but not quite there, kind of a SSJ1.5 or SSJ1.8. Hence the visual differences, namely the lack of sparks.

...so basically Gohan was in some variation on "Grade 2," trying to forcibly push out the full SSj2 power while not actually being able to transform the right way due to his lack of training and/or anger?

Like a powered-up-but-not-bulked-up version, possibly thanks to him having "mastered" Super Saiyan already before trying this rather than pushing ahead to higher levels of power before mastering the basic form like Vegeta and Trunks did.