Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

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Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Speedster » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:31 am

That one always bugged me. Not because it cannot be explained via a headcanon but because it was never explained officially. Anyway let me outline my explanation through a debate-I am spreading the points to make it a bit more interesting. Feel free to add your own points/views.
A. It doesn’t make sense that Piccolo in the Cell arc after fusing with Kami can’t create Dragonballs on his own.

B. That is because Piccolo is warrior-type. Only dragon-type Namekians can create Dragonballs and Dragons.

A: But in chapter 265 the Great Elder said that the son of Katatz is a prodigy of the Dragon Clan. So the nameless Namekian was a Dragon type. If cut an apple in half both halves are still apple. It is baseless to assume that Piccolo was different. After all we know that the one half, Kami, could create Dragonballs so he was Dragon-clan. So must Piccolo.

B: Well that is Piccolo Daimao though. Not Piccolo Jr. Piccolo Jr was Warrior type. Otherwise he wouldn’t be able to fuse with Nail.

A. That is false reasoning. If indeed Piccolo Jr and Nail needed to both be warrior types to fuse then NailPiccolo (who would be a warrior type too) wouldn’t be able to fuse with Kami who is Dragon Clan. But they could fuse.

B. OK, then Warrior and Dragon can fuse. But Piccolo Jr could still be a Warrior type.

A. But how? Piccolo Daimao was a Dragon type…

B. Guru was a Dragon Type but we know he could give birth to off-springs of either type. So Piccolo Jr could perfectly be a warrior type because his father Piccolo Daimao just chose to give birth to an off-spring of that type.

A. Right. OK then, but what was stopping Kamiccolo to produce a Dragon-clan off-spring of his own to serve as God too?

B. Well it would take time for the off-spring to grow up. Piccolo might have also not wanted to do this because it would age him or cut some years off his lifespan.

A. But Piccolo grew up pretty quickly, didn't he? He could walk straight out of the egg and the egg hatched within a few days. Also are you telling me that Piccolo who was putting his whole life on the line was caring about losing a few years from his life or aging a little? And what was stopping him from asking Shenlong to give him his youth/lost years back anyway?

B. Right. Perhaps warrior types might have not been able to produce off-springs at all or they could produce only warrior types. We only know that a Dragon Clan can give birth to Warrior type but we don't know if this works the other way round. Probably it was not possible for a Warrior type to give birth to a Dragon clan. And possibly he couldn't give birth at all as Piccolo never did so (although he might not have wanted for other reasons).

A. Right. OK let’s say that NailPiccolo was a warrior type. He fused with Kami. Wasn’t Kami still there? He WAS! His knowledge was there. His abilities were there. Vegetto could use the attacks of both Goku and Vegeta and had the knowledge of both of them. And Kamiccolo knew the details of kid Goku’s training in RoSaT and NailPiccolo knew all about Dende. It is very contrived that out of all the things Kami added *this* particular knowledge/ability happened to be lost. How convenient!

B. Well the ability to create Dragons is (most likely) inherent to the base of the Namekian being Dragon-type. And that base was lost for good the moment Kami was assimilated into a being whose base was Warrior type. So the resulting Kamiccolo couldn't create Dragonballs.

A. But what about this new lore of shaving Dragonballs from the original ones? They just shaved pieces from those that Zarama created who was not a Namekian. He was the Dragon God. I mean, yes, the Namekians learned how to reproduce this material and its properties but this is just external knowledge - like reverse engineering the Dragonball recipe. It shouldn't be something integrated/inherent into their biology as a special ability.

B. Well perhaps those Namekians who were working in the reverse engineering of the Dragonballs evolved differently to include that ability or asked the Dragon that they created to make them able to create Dragonballs. Who knows? Super is still a work in progress. Hopefully we will get an explanation though I am not holding my breath.

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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Kaboom » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:27 am

Whoever represents "B" in blue within your quote there has it right. It's all easily deduced from what we've been told in the story and the guidebooks.

Being a Warrior-type or Dragon-type Namekian isn't just a job description — It's treated as a biological difference, the closest thing that Namekians have to sexes. Only the Dragon-types have the inherent ability to do things like heal, reproduce, or make Dragon Balls. Warrior-types can't do those things, but in exchange they're literally bred for battle. Compared to Dragon-types they have naturally much higher power levels and stronger bodies suited for fighting.

Dragon-types can obviously birth either type of Namekian, otherwise there'd be no Warrior-types at all. The Grand Elder spawned the entire current Namekian population (sans Piccolo) all on his own, which was mostly Dragon-types but included at least one Warrior-type in Nail. Since he was essentially Kami's evil clone, King Piccolo was a Dragon-type too. But when he was dying and spawned his heir, he made Piccolo Junior a Warrior-type instead of another Dragon-type. If Dende chooses to spawn some kids someday, he likewise could create either more Dragon-types like himself or Warrior-types instead.

Now for Fusion... normally, only two Namekians of the same type can merge. Piccolo and Nail were both Warrior-types, so they were totally compatible. The merger of Piccolo and Kami seems to be the exception to the rule, and only possible because they were originally one being and still shared that spiritual link. However, that doesn't mean that suddenly Piccolo's now some Warrior/Dragon hybrid who has the abilities of both types. It's explicitly said that since Piccolo serves as the base, then he remains his own person, and Kami served only to increase his knowledge and power. Whatever innate biological differences allow Kami to do Dragon-type things like create Dragon Balls or spawn offspring do not carry over to Piccolo. He's still entirely a Warrior-type, and only possesses the knowledge of another Namekian who happened to be Dragon-type.

So that's the answer. In a nutshell, "Piccolo can't create his own Dragon Balls (or do other Dragon-type things like spawn kids) because despite merging with Kami, he's still 100% Warrior-type." As for the newer lore from Super about shaving off pieces of the Super Dragon Balls... I guess whatever's done to turn those pieces into active Dragon Balls of their own is still only doable by Dragon-types.
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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:07 pm

I agree with Kaboom for almost the entirety of his post, except that Piccolo isn't a Warrior/Dragon hybrid. Going by the Daizenshu's descriptions of the Namekian types, Piccolo seemingly has to be a hybrid on some level. The materialization of objects (clothes, or whatever) is a Dragon Clan trait, and we see Piccolo do it all the time.

It may be a slight holdover from his father because of that link with Kami. Whatever it is, I don't think it's anywhere near enough to say he has the rest of the prodigal or biological elements to create Dragon Balls though. Perhaps the Warrior Clan in him is likely holding him back from that. Kind of similar to how Bebi prevented Vegeta from going Super Saiyan 4.
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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Kaboom » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:14 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:The materialization of objects (clothes, or whatever) is a Dragon Clan trait, and we see Piccolo do it all the time.
As I recall, the guidebooks label that as a relatively basic sorcery trick, something not limited to any type of Namekian or even Namekians in general. Plus, we saw Piccolo do it way before he merged with Kami, when he gave li'l Gohan his clothes and sword.

In fact, looking it up now, Daizenshuu #7's technique guide actually labels Piccolo as a user, but not Kami or any other Namekian...
the diaz wrote:Materialization Sorcery [busshitsu shutsugen majutsu]
First Appears: Chapter 104
Category: Magical Arts
User(s): Akkuman, Kaio, Dabra, Piccolo, Elder Kaioshin
Characteristics: An art where they materialize an object they picture by thinking hard. Piccolo and Kaio's form of this technique could be called less a kind of magic and more a unique ability that they are endowed with.
...And suggests it's something that comes naturally to him. That's kind of weird and vague. But either way, it doesn't seem to be something tied to Kami or other Dragon-types in any way.
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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:18 pm

It gets complicated then, because Daizenshu 4's Racial Characteristics section lumps the ability in with the Dragon Clan.
Creation
Dragon Clan Namekians can create dragonballs.

The greatest unique trait of the Dragon Clan is their ability to create objects, and if they reach genius-class they can even create dragonballs. Because Kami who came to Earth and Dende were both prodigies, they could easily create dragonballs and call forth Shenlong.
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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Kaboom » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:22 pm

Well I'll be darned. Then I guess the best answer is pretty much what you suggested... that Piccolo's ability to create basic objects carried over from King Piccolo (which I guess is why D7 says it's innate for him), but something advanced like creating Dragon Balls is still only possible for actual Dragon-types.
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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Speedster » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:12 pm

Well pretty much the explanation of the new lore can be like this.

Materialisation is an inherent biological ability. It is not something you can learn to master like a Kamehameha or Kaioken. It is like Saiyans being able to transform into Oozaru’s when they have their tails and there is full moon. The only Namekians capable of materialising objects are the Dragon-types. The Dragon/Warrior hybrids can materialise too but their materialisation ability is limited.

The Namekians reverse engineered the Dragonball/Dragon material and its properties but still the only ones who could recreate that matter and its magical properties are the Dragon-types of genius status as they are the only ones who can create complex matter in the first place. Kamiccolo did have the knowledge of how to create Dragonballs but as his base was (primarily) warrior type it is like a male knowing how the breast of a female mammal produces milk after pregnancy. Despite the knowledge a male won't be able to produce milk from their breast as it is a biological ability of an 100% female. Ok that was admittedly a rough example but it serves its purpose anyway...

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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by Darkprince410 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:21 pm

Kaboom wrote:Well I'll be darned. Then I guess the best answer is pretty much what you suggested... that Piccolo's ability to create basic objects carried over from King Piccolo (which I guess is why D7 says it's innate for him), but something advanced like creating Dragon Balls is still only possible for actual Dragon-types.
They end up doing that for a number of his different abilities, like Daizenshuu 7 lists his ability to stretch his limbs as just a unique Namekian ability, while Daizenshuu 4 lists it as a special trait he inherited from the Demon Clan.

But, to go solely from what's established in-universe, not taking into account any of the guide books or any of the contradictions therein, it's because the end result of the Piccolo/Kami merging is a fighting-type, not of the Dragon Clan. He'd have all the knowledge associated with making them due to merging with Kami, so it can't be a matter of not knowing the process to do it. He just simply isn't capable of carrying that process out.

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Re: Why can’t Piccolo/Kamiccolo create his own Dragonballs?

Post by manwolf » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:44 pm

Maybe there are two kinds of materializations, the first is a literal creations and only Dragon-types namekians, Kaios and Kaioshins can uses. They can reassemble the atoms of something to create another thing.

The second type is a materialization is a teletransportation, the character cannot create something only teleport or transform something Piccolo or Gods of destructions use this technique, so Piccolo can "create" clothes and a swords in the teleport or transformation sense but cannot create a dragonball set cause to do this he needs to create a new object, something only Dragon-types or Gods of creations can.

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