How did Vegeta get God Ki?

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ChiefWamsutta
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How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:12 pm

So, I've been wondering ... is it even possible for Vegeta to have gotten God Ki on his own through training with Whis? I don't know, I feel like one can't get God Ki through training. Why would training with Whis change his Ki's make-up?

I always saw it as he gained God Ki from the SSGod Ritual because immediately after Goku becomes a SSGod, Vegeta stares upward on the ship and clearly is sensing the battle. A clear counterpoint I can think of is that the Oracle Fish mentions to Vegeta about his recent ability to sense God Ki while Goku and Whis are traveling to Beerus' Planet.

Goku absorbed God Ki after becoming a SSGod, which explains how he can access it. How do you guys think Vegeta got God Ki because to me there is no clear explanation?

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:29 pm

Plot Device...
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by sintzu » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:45 pm

After seeing RF we all thought he did the ritual before going to train but that wasn't the case and it's too big of a plot point to not be from Toriyama.

They never said how so all we is that Whis found a way to help him reach it.
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:47 pm

Vegeta gained the astounding, unfathomable, unprecedented, universe-threatening power of a Super Saiyan God...

By, like, trying reeeaaaally hard, you guys. For serious, he's such a dedicated trooper.

All the power he gained from all those decades of his life spent training, exploiting power-ups exclusive to his race, dying or nearly dying countless times in the process, even selling his soul to have his dormant power unlocked... all amounts to nothing compared to the mystical power he gained from the rigorous, extreme training of doing push-ups while Whis watches.

And he gained that power just in time to make Goku look good by getting his ass kicked by some random edgy trenchcoat dude who apparently got his hands on the watch from Clockstoppers.

*Spits*
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by sintzu » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:52 pm

Kaboom wrote:Vegeta gained the astounding, unfathomable, unprecedented, universe-threatening power of a Super Saiyan God... By, like, trying reeeaaaally hard, you guys. For serious, he's such a dedicated trooper.
Vegeta is known for going above and beyond to reach his goal so in a way it makes sense even though it shouldn't.
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Tectorman » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:53 pm

I remember an interview to the effect that Goku and Vegeta had come pretty close to their maximum potential as of BoG. It went on to say that only the advent of SSJG would allow Goku to still get stronger from that point on. The series has Vegeta beginning to be able to sense god ki during Goku's battle with Beerus and it describes most of Vegeta's progress as due to his training under Whis. So I ultimately agree with the OP in that the road to Vegeta beginning to overcome these mortal limits had to stem from his exposure to Goku's SSJG ritual.
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:02 pm

Off-screen, through the ritual.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by LightBing » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:29 pm

The same way Goku did, through Super Saiyan Blue. Sensing God Ki is different from having it, the only implication is that with training and/or reaching a certain level of power a mortal can sense it.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Son_Gohan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:02 pm

God Ki has to come from somewhere, it can't just appear out of thin air. I think the source of God Ki actually comes from Beerus' realm, as they're the only ones that are shown to possess that specific type naturally. Mortals are never meant to step foot on Kaioshin's realm, much less Beerus', so perhaps training there for a long period of time would allow Vegeta to develop an affinity for the God Ki in the environment and ultimately claim it for his own.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:17 pm

Vegeta gained the astounding, unfathomable, unprecedented, universe-threatening power of a Super Saiyan God...

By, like, trying reeeaaaally hard, you guys. For serious, he's such a dedicated trooper.

All the power he gained from all those decades of his life spent training, exploiting power-ups exclusive to his race, dying or nearly dying countless times in the process, even selling his soul to have his dormant power unlocked... all amounts to nothing compared to the mystical power he gained from the rigorous, extreme training of doing push-ups while Whis watches.

And he gained that power just in time to make Goku look good by getting his ass kicked by some random edgy trenchcoat dude who apparently got his hands on the watch from Clockstoppers.

*Spits*
This is freaking hilarious, Kaboom! Hahahahaha

Tectorman wrote:I remember an interview to the effect that Goku and Vegeta had come pretty close to their maximum potential as of BoG. It went on to say that only the advent of SSJG would allow Goku to still get stronger from that point on. The series has Vegeta beginning to be able to sense god ki during Goku's battle with Beerus and it describes most of Vegeta's progress as due to his training under Whis. So I ultimately agree with the OP in that the road to Vegeta beginning to overcome these mortal limits had to stem from his exposure to Goku's SSJG ritual.
I very vaguely remember something like that too. Perhaps Vegeta was exposed to the God Ki during the ritual and in stayed in him as well, then training brought it out.
Grimlock wrote:Off-screen, through the ritual.
I never got the feeling that the group did a ritual again, just because that'd be such a big plot point to leave out.
LightBing wrote:The same way Goku did, through Super Saiyan Blue. Sensing God Ki is different from having it, the only implication is that with training and/or reaching a certain level of power a mortal can sense it.
Goku's Super Saiyan Blue is hinted to be the same Super Saiyan form he fights Beerus in above Earth's atmosphere. He seems to "upgrade it" by using all God Ki resulting in the blue hair. Vegeta never had a Super Saiyan form with the God Ki infused in it -- UNLESS, you consider the SS form he was in during the ritual and the God Ki infused in him as well.
Son_Gohan wrote:God Ki has to come from somewhere, it can't just appear out of thin air. I think the source of God Ki actually comes from Beerus' realm, as they're the only ones that are shown to possess that specific type naturally. Mortals are never meant to step foot on Kaioshin's realm, much less Beerus', so perhaps training there for a long period of time would allow Vegeta to develop an affinity for the God Ki in the environment and ultimately claim it for his own.
That's a solid idea! I like this one. I wonder how you could incorporate his sensing SSGod Goku vs. Beerus though, hmmm.


I'm just kinda pissed off that we never got to see Vegeta transform into a SS2 for the first time, nor Vegeta becoming a SSGSS for the first time. We have no idea if Goku and Vegeta learned it at the same time in Whis' Staff or if one was first. Focusing on these training parts of DBSuper would've been nice.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:31 pm

I'm almost sure they felt god ki when their fists clashed during the training while Whis instructed them to not let any ki leak out while powering up. The god ki dimension helped them to further develop that kind of ki control I believe.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by LightBing » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:58 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:Goku's Super Saiyan Blue is hinted to be the same Super Saiyan form he fights Beerus in above Earth's atmosphere. He seems to "upgrade it" by using all God Ki resulting in the blue hair. Vegeta never had a Super Saiyan form with the God Ki infused in it -- UNLESS, you consider the SS form he was in during the ritual and the God Ki infused in him as well.
That Super Saiyan Goku you mention has no God Ki whatsoever. Goku never had God Ki outside of SSJG and SSJB. He never absorbed any God Ki, only power is mentioned. Maybe that's what you mean, how did Vegeta reached such a plateau of power just with training?

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by MadSaiyantist » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:14 pm

I simply assumed that God Ki was an elevated form of the Ki all characters have in them. The SsjG ritual was just a way of immediately upgrading as opposed to working hard to get it. Near perfect Ki control seems to be the way you refine your regular Ki. Training with Whis seemed to do the trick for Vegeta. Nothing official just speculation

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:09 pm

Because the plot needed it to happen. I still stand by my opinion that Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan Blue, without becoming a Super Saiyan God, is one of the worst creative decisions that Dragon Ball has ever done. It was so fucking ridiculous the circumstances of how Vegeta just leap-frogged from SSJ2 tier to SSJB tier and in the process cheapen God ki and make the Super Saiyan God transformation pointless and worthless.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:22 pm

Put this into perspective: after 7 years of training, Vegeta barely reached SSJ2 Kid Gohan's level of power, feeling the need to be possessed by Babidi just to catch up to Goku. And let's not even talk about SSJ3; he STILL hasn't reached that.

But after like, what was it, a year (?) with Whis, he manages to reach a level that was implied to be unattainable through training by...training! No, wait, silly me...he attained the level above that by training.

*Spits*
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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:27 pm

I know I've ranted about this before, but I really need to do it again just to get it out of my system for good.

If you can just train and attain Goldly Ki and become monstrously strong training with Whis' for at least 6 months, then guys like Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, have no right not being on the same tier of strength as Goku and Vegeta are right now. They should all be Super Saiyan Blue/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan tier strength. But they aren't because... reasons. I don't know why none of them thought it would be good idea to ask Whis to train them especially since Goku tells the Z-Fighters that is exactly how Vegeta got so insanely strong in the first place.

Why on Earth was the form officially called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in the first place? Why even bother introducing the Super Saiyan God transformation if you in the end you don't need it? What was so special about Whis' training with Vegeta that took him from SSJ2 tier to SSJ God tier in 6 months yet after Goku trained with Whis' for just two months less than that time he's still weaker than Golden Freeza? Goku should have never said in Super, when he became a Super Saiyan Blue, that the form was the result of a “Saiyan who’s a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God”. That line, in my opinion, destroys any kind of loophole that can be given for Vegeta skipping Super Saiyan God to become a Super Saiyan Blue. It just doesn't add up. If Goku doesn't explicitly say that line, I wouldn't have that much of an issue with Vegeta going straight to Super Saiyan Blue without the Super Saiyan God transformation, because nothing is really established or implied about how the form is achieved. But Goku flat out states the basic circumstances of how he attained the form.

And that's the big problem.

If we have to accept that Vegeta became a Super Saiyan Blue without becoming a Super Saiyan God, then we have to ignore everything Goku said about how he became a Super Saiyan Blue in Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super. I know Dragon Ball has had a history of breaking its own rules, but the pure lack of explanation as to how Vegeta made the leap from SSJ2 tier to SSJB tier without the use of SSJG reek of fucking laziness. The writers of Super just flat out didn't bother trying to make any sense of the scenario. It's kinda insulting. It's a big, fat fucking plothole now matter what way you look at it. And in the process: the Z-Fighters look like idiots for not bothering to ask Whis to train them, the Super Saiyan God transformation has become pointless and Vegeta is a special snowflake in the power hierarchy.

Thank you Dragon Ball Super for giving us one of the laziest, half arsed, contradictory and just flat out bullshit reasoning's for a strength increase for a character we'll ever see in Dragon Ball and in fiction as a whole.

*Spits*

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by LightBing » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:09 pm

@Lord Beerus
I can agree that the training with Whis wasn't explicit enough to show why it works, still there's the idea that he's the guy who recruits and builds up Gods of destruction. It's also been a tendency in Dragon Ball to get sudden growths in power when a new plateau is discovered. The training with Whis, mirrors the training with Kaio. Writers just didn't have the imagination to make it look like proper and amazing training for what it represents.

Regarding the other characters "reasons" for not getting there. They actually have reasons, with maybe the exception of Piccolo. Vegeta abandoned his family for what, 1 year or more to go to another planet. That automatically excludes Gohan, with good reason. The kids are kids, I doubt they would even want to go. Piccolo is the one I could see going. Altought it's not certain Whis would even accept him, he had a hard time accepting Vegeta. I think the implication is that Whis doesn't just train everybody.

That line in RoF is certainly confusing, the training with Whis were both Goku and Vegeta "feel" SSJB kinda contradicts the need for Super Saiyan God. It's sad how SSJG was just shoved aside, I guess it's to difference how they were obtained(and to sell merchandises); one through the ritual, the other through training.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:10 pm

Well Beerus and Champa got god ki and if they were chosen to be gods as is suggested then they had to have got god ki somehow right?

Since Whis and Vados train gods of destruction then they must know means by which a mortal being can obtain god ki and that is what happened to Vegeta. Of course that would also mean that god ki will always manifest as Super Saiyan Blue for a saiyan. That would mean SSB is the true god form and Super Saiyan God is a false, artificial or partial transformation.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by MadSaiyantist » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:21 pm

I personally don't have much of a problem with it mainly because Vegeta went through one on one training with Whis who has God Ki himself. Would a small explanation help? Sure but this is Whis we're talking about. He has to know how to refine your Ki to God status considering Beerus wasn't born a "God" but rather appointed.

Goku's statement about "A Saiyan who's a Super Saiyan with the power a Super Saiyan God" can be interpreted different ways depending on who you ask. At the end of the day you've got to realize that Vegeta wouldn't want to achieve God tier levels of strength by using the SsjG ritual.

This dramatic increase in power reminds of the Saiyan arc when he said that line about "A wall that can never be scaled through effort alone" which I think adds to the depth of Vegeta. Hell I thought that Vegeta asking to be trained by Whis added more to his character than it would for him to agree to the ritual.

An easy way out for other characters not attaing God forns would be to either say they don't have the motivation to train at that intensity or you could also say that they simply wouldn't be able to survive it.

The bad part about this is that there's no official explanation to any of this despite how easy it is come up with one.

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Re: How did Vegeta get God Ki?

Post by TheMikado » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:55 pm

Kaboom wrote:Vegeta gained the astounding, unfathomable, unprecedented, universe-threatening power of a Super Saiyan God...

By, like, trying reeeaaaally hard, you guys. For serious, he's such a dedicated trooper.

All the power he gained from all those decades of his life spent training, exploiting power-ups exclusive to his race, dying or nearly dying countless times in the process, even selling his soul to have his dormant power unlocked... all amounts to nothing compared to the mystical power he gained from the rigorous, extreme training of doing push-ups while Whis watches.

And he gained that power just in time to make Goku look good by getting his ass kicked by some random edgy trenchcoat dude who apparently got his hands on the watch from Clockstoppers.

*Spits*
Outside of me feeling the exact same way, what's this spits thing I see in this thread?

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