What is Rageta and its power?

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ChiefWamsutta
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What is Rageta and its power?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:44 pm

Hey guys,

I was just wondering your thoughts on what 'My Bulma' Vegeta was. Is he a SS2 that output much more power than a SS3 Goku?! How much power did he output himself? Where do you think his range lies?

I personally put 'My Bulma' Vegeta at Buutenks level power, and I see it as a strange branch off of the Super Saiyan chain where he still was in SS2 form, but was so much more powerful.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Ozotto » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:14 pm

Vegeta is so powerful he didn't even require a ritual to harness the power of a God, which Shenron stated was the only way to become one.

Vegeta is so powerful he can overcome the strength of the God of Destruction with pure rage.

Vegeta's natural ability has far exceeded that of Goku's.

Where Goku relies on borrowed power and techniques from God's Vegeta pulls it from deep within himself.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:34 pm

In Super's Manga, I have him a bit stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

In the anime, since he's forces Beerus to use 10% of his power and apparently SSJB X10 Kaioken Goku is weaker than Beerus. Mutated Vegeta should be stronger than SSJ Vegetto, by a lot.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Blackstripe » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Beerus used 10% of his power against him, but this was clearly excessive by a large degree as he absolutely no-sold Rageta's best attack, and then oneshotted him with a poke. So Rageta does NOT equal 10% Beerus, not even close. I imagine Beerus just panicked for a moment due to the sudden increase and called on more power than he really needed to.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:58 pm

Blackstripe wrote:Beerus used 10% of his power against him, but this was clearly excessive by a large degree as he absolutely no-sold Rageta's best attack, and then oneshotted him with a poke. So Rageta does NOT equal 10% Beerus, not even close. I imagine Beerus just panicked for a moment due to the sudden increase and called on more power than he really needed to.
I'm not saying Mutated Vegeta equals 10% Beerus, that's clearly not the case based on the fight. However, Beerus did use 10%. Looking at his fight with SSJ3 Goku and with SSJG Goku, it seems fair to say he doesn't waste power willy nilly. So the 10% is what he actually needed to dominate Vegeta in such fashion.
Based on my impression above and my perception of the relative power gaps in Dragon Ball. The lowest I can put Mutated Vegeta is 7,5% of Beerus. Less and Beerus would be entering overkill territory.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:45 pm

LightBing wrote:In Super's Manga, I have him a bit stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

In the anime, since he's forces Beerus to use 10% of his power and apparently SSJB X10 Kaioken Goku is weaker than Beerus. Mutated Vegeta should be stronger than SSJ Vegetto, by a lot.
It's simply impossible for Beerus to be more than 10 times stronger than SSB.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:00 am

LightBing wrote:I'm not saying Mutated Vegeta equals 10% Beerus, that's clearly not the case based on the fight. However, Beerus did use 10%. Looking at his fight with SSJ3 Goku and with SSJG Goku, it seems fair to say he doesn't waste power willy nilly. So the 10% is what he actually needed to dominate Vegeta in such fashion.
Based on my impression above and my perception of the relative power gaps in Dragon Ball. The lowest I can put Mutated Vegeta is 7,5% of Beerus. Less and Beerus would be entering overkill territory.
People really need to let go of those Zarbon/Dodoria vs Vegeta fights. They shouldn't be the be-all-end-all of Dragon Ball power scaling. Like I said, I think Beerus was just startled by the sudden power increase, unlike with Gokuu who slowly increased his power throughout their fight. I put Rageta much lower than 7.5%. Never higher than 2.5%, with his Garicko Ho being about 5%.

I will say, however, that I do not believe that Kaioken 10X SSB NEEDS to be weaker than 100% Beerus, it just needs to not be so much stronger that Gokuu could effectively beat him with it. Remember, Hit is solidly weaker than Beerus yet was able to withstand it, so Beerus certainly could. Also, I wish people would STOP saying that "Beerus brushed off the Kaioken"...no, he didn't. He was noticeably sweating, and when Whis teased him about it he sharply replied "As if!", and rather defensively at that.

And yes, I know of the Toriyama quote. It doesn't mean he couldn't change his mind after the interview or that he simply could be saying that Gokuu/Vegeta won't be capable of defeating Beerus for some time. Surpass can be interpreted in multiple ways.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by TheMikado » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:15 am

Blackstripe wrote:Beerus used 10% of his power against him, but this was clearly excessive by a large degree as he absolutely no-sold Rageta's best attack, and then oneshotted him with a poke. So Rageta does NOT equal 10% Beerus, not even close. I imagine Beerus just panicked for a moment due to the sudden increase and called on more power than he really needed to.
When you have to make up scenarios where a God capable of wiping out the entire universe "panics" from an angry guy in a leotard to the point where he overly compensates by a significant magnitude, I think you're entering fan fiction territory.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by LightBing » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:51 am

Blackstripe wrote:
LightBing wrote:I'm not saying Mutated Vegeta equals 10% Beerus, that's clearly not the case based on the fight. However, Beerus did use 10%. Looking at his fight with SSJ3 Goku and with SSJG Goku, it seems fair to say he doesn't waste power willy nilly. So the 10% is what he actually needed to dominate Vegeta in such fashion.
Based on my impression above and my perception of the relative power gaps in Dragon Ball. The lowest I can put Mutated Vegeta is 7,5% of Beerus. Less and Beerus would be entering overkill territory.
People really need to let go of those Zarbon/Dodoria vs Vegeta fights. They shouldn't be the be-all-end-all of Dragon Ball power scaling. Like I said, I think Beerus was just startled by the sudden power increase, unlike with Gokuu who slowly increased his power throughout their fight. I put Rageta much lower than 7.5%. Never higher than 2.5%, with his Garicko Ho being about 5%.

I will say, however, that I do not believe that Kaioken 10X SSB NEEDS to be weaker than 100% Beerus, it just needs to not be so much stronger that Gokuu could effectively beat him with it. Remember, Hit is solidly weaker than Beerus yet was able to withstand it, so Beerus certainly could. Also, I wish people would STOP saying that "Beerus brushed off the Kaioken"...no, he didn't. He was noticeably sweating, and when Whis teased him about it he sharply replied "As if!", and rather defensively at that.

And yes, I know of the Toriyama quote. It doesn't mean he couldn't change his mind after the interview or that he simply could be saying that Gokuu/Vegeta won't be capable of defeating Beerus for some time. Surpass can be interpreted in multiple ways.
Why should I abandon these actual numerical power comparisons, who were never contradicted/retconned? I know it's not a strict rule, since there's many factors besides power: emotions, preparation, ki control, resilience, etc... It offers a guideline for me to interpret the fight's. My reasoning follows this, that's why I put the gap at 25%, because such a gap guarantees victory in a straight hand-to-hand fight, based on my interpretation of how fights work in Dragon Ball.
Anyway, I disagree with your interpretation. One argument against it, usually in Dragon Ball power comparisons are to be taken as true. Without any ambiguity such as Beerus exaggerating his power due to being startled.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Hitiro » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:42 pm

I also usually use a basis of a 25% difference between characters to completely dominate others. I would also put Rage Vegeta at around 7.5%, honestly going from the fact that Beerus was pushed to using 10% of his power I can't imagine the SSJB form being stronger than SSJG which is supposed to be superior to Rage Vegeta.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Blackstripe » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:51 pm

Well, something has to give here. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you don't believe KK10XSSB is literally ten times SSB, or you think Rageta wasn't close to 10% Beerus. There's really no other option, unless you want SSG to be weaker than Rageta, which goes against all common sense and evidence in-series. SSB was also stated to be stronger than SSG, wasn't it? So as I said, you can't believe all of these things at once and still have Gokuu be literally weaker than Beerus. If you do, you have to at least acknowledge that he surpassed the Hakaishin in raw power, even if he perhaps couldn't maintain that state long enough to win.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:12 am

Stronger than ssj3, but still probably weaker than ssj Vegito.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by The S » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:20 am

Somebody want to explain what a Rageta is? All I'm getting on Google is this topic and a fan fusion between Raditz and Vegeta.
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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Nejishiki » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:24 am

The S wrote:Somebody want to explain what a Rageta is? All I'm getting on Google is this topic and a fan fusion between Raditz and Vegeta.
It's a fan term used to describe Vegeta's emotional outburst caused when Beerus slapped his wife. Rage + Vegeta = Rageta.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Hitiro » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:43 am

Blackstripe wrote:Well, something has to give here. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you don't believe KK10XSSB is literally ten times SSB, or you think Rageta wasn't close to 10% Beerus. There's really no other option, unless you want SSG to be weaker than Rageta, which goes against all common sense and evidence in-series. SSB was also stated to be stronger than SSG, wasn't it? So as I said, you can't believe all of these things at once and still have Gokuu be literally weaker than Beerus. If you do, you have to at least acknowledge that he surpassed the Hakaishin in raw power, even if he perhaps couldn't maintain that state long enough to win.
Huh? No. SSJB + KKx10 is literally 10x. I've always been under the impression that Goku is weaker than his SSJG form now. I don't think it was ever said that SSJB was stronger than SSJG. They have said that SSJB is a form that surpasses SSJG but one could make the argument that it surpasses SSJG because it has no time limit and can be used whenever they want. The way I see it is:

SSJ Goku(After the fight with Beerus) < SSJB Goku < Rage Vegeta < 10% Beerus <= SSJ Goku(After absorbing SSJG during the fight) = SSJG Goku << SSJB Goku KKx10 < Beerus ??%

Goku maintained the power of SSJG during the fight with Beerus but afterwards he lost the ability to access its power, hence why him and Vegeta channel a bit of the God power through their SSJB form.

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by ssbgoku » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:50 pm

Making it as easy and short as possible, let's gather what we know first:

1) Master Roshi mentioned vegeta finally suprassing goku
2) Heavily supressed beerus called enraged mutation vegeta more fun with other Saiyan(reference to his fight with ssj3 goku)
3) Goku who was watching vegeta's rage against beerus was impressed and praised him for suprassing him.

So, what we know Enraged vegeta was at least above ssj3 goku, which means above post rosat ss gotenks buu arc. Now taking in consideration how goku is straight forward and easy going person he always say what he has on his mind/head, so eariler after encountering and having short duel with beerus, goku was not just impressed by glimpse of beerus's power but even mentioned fusion wouldn't work on him.(buu arc ss vegetto), wether he meant ss vegetto as we have seen him or full power is up to speculation, but more shows to fp. Now we know that goku only claimed enraged vegeta suprassed him, but nothing he said about fusion, which means fusion as potara fusion would still beat enraged vegeta.

10% beerus > ss vegetto bog arc > ss vegetto buu arc > enraged vegeta > bog ss3 goku
10% beerus > combined ki failed ritual ss goku

combined ki failed ritual ss goku =? ss vegetto

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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:00 am

He must be a pretty darn good Pokemon.
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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by The S » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Nejishiki wrote:
The S wrote:Somebody want to explain what a Rageta is? All I'm getting on Google is this topic and a fan fusion between Raditz and Vegeta.
It's a fan term used to describe Vegeta's emotional outburst caused when Beerus slapped his wife. Rage + Vegeta = Rageta.
-_- Seriously?
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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Tectorman » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:15 am

I wanted to float this theory out there and this seemed like the most appropriate thread for it. An explanation of where Vegeta got that much power, operating under the premise that while this power-up was triggered by rage, it is not solely a rage boost.

According to at least one recent interview, Saiyans get stronger from fighting stronger opponents. The impression I get is that this is supposed to be A) as integral to their racial heritage as the Zenkai and B) normally a gradual process, otherwise we'd have heard of it sooner.

My theory: Vegeta, faced with the colossal godly power of Beerus, so outclassed in a way he never had been before, tapped into that aspect of his racial heritage in an exaggerated way due to A) his anger over Bulma getting slapped and B) the sheer difference between him and Beerus.

"But what about Goku?" True, Goku faced the same overwhelming power, and even if he never had a motivation like Bulma getting slapped, surely he'd still get something, right?

What if he innately rejected it? This reactive self-improvement might be a part of his racial heritage, but could Goku actually be the sort of person to reject this kind of improvement, even on an unconscious level, while Vegeta wouldn't be?

Well, we actually see this in the series. Vegeta was willing to let Krillin blast a hole through his spine just to gain another Zenkai, and he let Babidi control him just to eke out another power boost. Goku, on the other hand, even as far back as Dragonball, chose not to steal the Super Holy Water while he thought Master Karin was asleep because he thought that method of getting stronger wasn't right. In the Cell Saga, he had no idea how long he'd be maxed out in terms of his potential. He could've stayed in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for the rest of his allotted time, biding his time with light training, just in case he got hit by new inspiration to continue training without it being useless torture. And he hated the idea of SSJG because at the time, he thought it was something that could not be achieved by oneself.

Goku is more picky than Vegeta when it comes to getting stronger. He had lucked out so far in that most of the methods he elects to use to get stronger still work out better than the methods Vegeta uses. Did that make him psychologically incapable of taking advantage, even on an unconscious reactive level, of this other aspect of his racial heritage when the opportunity came up?
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Re: What is Rageta and its power?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:36 pm

The S wrote:-_- Seriously?
I share your sentiment.

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