I want YOUR opinion of the Two-Base Theory

[EmmaWinters]

Brett Wheeler, while I'm sure you have interesting things to contribute to this forum, many of your posts (including the ones in this thread) are borderline incomprehensible.

Proper capitalisation, comma usage, and previewing your posts prior to submission will go a long way in tidying up your posts, and helping others understand what you're trying to say.

If English isn't your native language, then by all means let us know as we are lenient in that regard, but otherwise please rereview the forum rules -- in particular rule #2 -- before posting again.

Thanks!

English is my native language, I just have problems with sentence structure. I'm sorry, I will try to fix it. I just have never been good at it and end up making more mistakes than needed trying to, but I will try to fix it. Thanks, and again, sorry.

It's okay, not everyone can be a great writer. Even so, please try to adhere to the fundamentals of grammar. As Ajay mentioned, checking your posts for spelling and punctuation issues before you comment will make a world of difference.

[RandomGuy96]

The entire theory is complete nonsense. There's nothing to support it at all and the only reason such a theory exists is so fans can have an excuse for why some characters are stronger than they think they should logically be.

What about Gohan [Cell Games] > Gohan [Black Goku arc] ~ Piccolo ~ base Goku > SS3 Gotenks apparently now being a thing?

What makes you think that? Goku is stronger than any of those guys.

More like Base Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks > Base Gohan (RoF arc) > Piccolo = Base Gohan (U6 arc) > Base Gohan (Black arc)

A tired Frost was stronger than base Vegeta and not several dimensions above Piccolo, and Goku thought he and Piccolo could have a good contest in seeing who could harvest better, so it's implied that, at least, Piccolo is pretty close in power to base Goku/Vegeta.

Piccolo is weaker than Gohan. Gohan is stated to have gotten back to training so he wouldn't be quite as useless, there's no reason to assume he stopped and regressed from where he was in the U6 arc.

Gohan is weaker than he was at the Cell Games.

[Hugo Boss]

I believe that the ability to "keep your ki from leaking out" can be turned on and off, resulting in wildly different power levels in base form.

The problem is that when you don't let your ki leak out none can sense your ki. Goku's ki (vs. Freeza) could be sensed.

Has the Ki leaking thing even been referenced lately or did that go the way of the dodo and get retconned like the 6-10-15 scale? I ask because it doesn't functionally make much sense nor is it explain as others have pointed out with the crazy aura. Also does that mean SSG also doesn't leak ki naturally?

Whis says Goku and Vegeta must power-up while not letting their ki leak out, that's when they first sensed their own god ki. Also, when they train in Whis' staff they can only move in god ki dimension using this principle. So, there should be two types of ki, one which they don't leak out and the god ki.

[brett wheeler]

Brett Wheeler, while I'm sure you have interesting things to contribute to this forum, many of your posts (including the ones in this thread) are borderline incomprehensible.

Proper capitalisation, comma usage, and previewing your posts prior to submission will go a long way in tidying up your posts, and helping others understand what you're trying to say.

If English isn't your native language, then by all means let us know as we are lenient in that regard, but otherwise please rereview the forum rules -- in particular rule #2 -- before posting again.

Thanks!

English is my native language, I just have problems with sentence structure. I'm sorry, I will try to fix it. I just have never been good at it and end up making more mistakes than needed trying to, but I will try to fix it. Thanks, and again, sorry.

It's okay, not everyone can be a great writer. Even so, please try to adhere to the fundamentals of grammar. As Ajay mentioned, checking your posts for spelling and punctuation issues before you comment will make a world of difference.

OK I will try, punctuation isn't really my strong suit where I don't know where to stop in sentences but I will try my best. As for grammar, I can use auto correct if I have to much trouble with that. So again sorry and thank you for not getting mad

[Bullza]

A tired Frost was stronger than base Vegeta and not several dimensions above Piccolo, and Goku thought he and Piccolo could have a good contest in seeing who could harvest better, so it's implied that, at least, Piccolo is pretty close in power to base Goku/Vegeta.

Piccolo is weaker than Gohan. Gohan is stated to have gotten back to training so he wouldn't be quite as useless, there's no reason to assume he stopped and regressed from where he was in the U6 arc.

Gohan is weaker than he was at the Cell Games.

Frost could have still been above Vegeta who could be above Piccolo. A couple days prior to the Tournament Piccolo was shown to be on par with Gohan who was likely weaker than the Gohan who was on par with Tagoma. Vegeta defeated Tagoma easily.

I don't think the Harvest scene means too much. Wasn't he going to have a competition with Goten too?

[Anime Kitten]

Just so you guys know, this isn't exactly relevant to the two-base theory.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I don't want to act like a moderator when it isn't my place, but my thread seems to have divulged into a debate rather than each person stating their personal opinions. I really was hoping this wouldn't happen. If everyone could please respect the focus of the topic it would go a long way.

[Kaboom]

As an actual moderator, I concur. This isn't meant to be a debate thread. We have another thread in the Super section entirely dedicated to discussion about the incomprehensible mess that is the series' power levels.

On another note... oy vey, the "two-base" theory itself is still getting a lot of blunt and borderline hostile dismissal in the thread. I really don't get it. It's just a fan-theory, and there's always going to be a lot of those when a story like Super leaves people with so many gaps in logic and unanswered questions.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

It's a nice theory, but I simply don't agree with it. I just choose to follow the idea that the enemies are much stronger than before instead. Its natural Dragon Ball progression.

[RandomGuy96]

A tired Frost was stronger than base Vegeta and not several dimensions above Piccolo, and Goku thought he and Piccolo could have a good contest in seeing who could harvest better, so it's implied that, at least, Piccolo is pretty close in power to base Goku/Vegeta.

Piccolo is weaker than Gohan. Gohan is stated to have gotten back to training so he wouldn't be quite as useless, there's no reason to assume he stopped and regressed from where he was in the U6 arc.

Gohan is weaker than he was at the Cell Games.

Frost could have still been above Vegeta who could be above Piccolo.

Yes. But Piccolo is not extremely far off, otherwise that fight wouldn't have lasted five seconds. It would be like Vegeta vs Frost.

A couple days prior to the Tournament Piccolo was shown to be on par with Gohan who was likely weaker than the Gohan who was on par with Tagoma.

No. He resolved to not slack off at the end of the ROF arc, so if anything he should be stronger.

Gohan [Cell Games] >>> Gohan [Black] >= Piccolo ~ Gohan [U6] > Gohan [ROF]

I don't think the Harvest scene means too much. Wasn't he going to have a competition with Goten too?

He wanted to have Goten help, but he didn't say that he and Goten would have a close contest like him and Piccolo.

Just so you guys know, this isn't exactly relevant to the two-base theory.

It seems pretty relevant, as without the "theory", the scene in question is an explicit contradiction. Gohan at the Cell Games is pretty much confirmed as stronger than Piccolo, and Piccolo was pretty much confirmed as being around base Goku and Vegeta. Not that this would be Super's only contradiction or anything.

[Analytic]

What says that tired Frost is stronger than Base Vegeta?

[TheMikado]

What says that tired Frost is stronger than Base Vegeta?

Vegeta going SSJ, otherwise why not just fight in base?

[Analytic]

What says that tired Frost is stronger than Base Vegeta?

Vegeta going SSJ, otherwise why not just fight in base?

Perhaps it wouldn't be an easy fight and he just wanted to end it instantaneously and overwhelmingly?

[TheMikado]

What says that tired Frost is stronger than Base Vegeta?

Vegeta going SSJ, otherwise why not just fight in base?

Perhaps it wouldn't be an easy fight and he just wanted to end it instantaneously and overwhelmingly?

Which doesn't make sense in the context of the next fight against Magetta when going SSB would have done the same thing in effect rather than leaving him exhausted.

[Nejishiki]

Weren't both Goku and Vegeta saving Super Saiyan Blue for Hit? Let's not forget that this is a competition for the warriors. Barring a few exceptions, there's no fun in the participants instantly ending battles to some people's chagrin. However, as I point that out, maybe a new thread should be created. ChiefWamsutta only wanted individual opinions in this thread, not a debate.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The topic creator and Kaboom have both reminded everyone not to turn this thread into a debate. I don't want hand out warnings for something as tame as this, so one more free reminder to keep things on topic. If you want to continue to debate strengths/battle powers, take it to the appropriate thread.

[Desassina]

What if instead of two, there was a whole range that we could consider their base? Think of it like this: when Goku turns SSJ, he could have 50x his battle power, so why not stick to 40x and remain in his regular state? Since I had depicted Gohan's Ultimate form as containing the power of SSJ and SSJ2, which were switched out for his regular looking form, then Goku would do the same with his God power. The old transformations would be shortcuts for when they are purposely lowering their power, like Cell used the equivalent of Grade II against Trunks when he had access to his full power without deformation.

[sintzu]

I rewatched a part of ep27 (no, not the part of Vegeta punching Freeza into the ground) and when Roshi said "Vegeta also reached Ssjg", Goku replied back by saying he did it on his own so what if the Blue form isn't Ssj with god Ki but is Ssjg but instead of red hair it's blue due to the user reaching it on their own ? that would explain why they're able to still use normal Ssj even though they can use blue which we thought was normal Ssj but with blue hair due to their Ki.

[Rubens]

Personally, I don't like the theory because it doesn't make much sense. If they had a second type of base form, the "saiyan beyond god" form that was actually stronger than ssj3, why wouldn't they use it instead of the super saiyan forms, considering it would (probably) be less energy consuming? I think the term "saiyan beyond god" applies to, upon his training with Whis, a saiyan that improved his ki by either tapping into godly ki (upon transforming) and absorbing part of said ki (I defend a similar process for the super saiyan forms), and/or by refining and building his ki. The question that I need to be answered is whether Vegeta can turn into super saiyan god/red or not. If he can, then that's their second base.

As for the Goku vs Trunks spar... it wasn't much of a spar: Goku just showed his transformations and 1-shot Trunks. Trunks said his ssj3 form was more than enough for Black. Goku just used regular ssj against the latter and after the fight, Trunks said Black was a little stronger than in the future. I perceive that goku was holding back with those transformations against Trunks.

In the end, I think it's just good old holding back or supressing on their base forms but, back to the universe 6 fighters, I admit it's odd having Goku and Vegeta turn ssj when they technically should be able to 1-shot them (except Hit) so for now I have no explanation for that other than saying they were purposedly holding back to keep the full extent of their power a mystery for Hit.

On a side note, it would have been better if before the tournament Piccolo and Buu were trained by Whis and the universe 6 guys trained by Vados. Now that would have been something, if not only to make Piccolo much stronger.

[Desassina]

The question that I need to be answered is whether Vegeta can turn into super saiyan god/red or not. If he can, then that's their second base.

Vegeta has achieved the power of a God through training, but he doesn't have the SSJG form, while Goku's power was stretched by it. Basically, it's a parallel to Kaioken, which was part of Goku's arsenal before the two of them got SSJ. Our only mistake was to label their power "God Ki", as if it held a different signature like Dende or Kaioshin's. Nitpicking aside, I believe that when they can't be sensed by others, it's only their battle power reaching an "infinite" amount, as if you were asked to grasp the size of an universe. Freeza was able to tell, because he was high enough to understand that quantity, along with Beerus and Whis.