Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

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Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by dario03 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:29 pm

Just something I've been wondering about since we have multiple universes now and Trunks is back with his time machine. Could be something that comes up later with the whole time traveling and who Black is. But has anything been said on this yet?

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Anime Kitten » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:57 pm

I'm pretty sure time machines only create alternate timelines for their respective Universes. What would happen if one was used in a neutral space (see Planet with Nothing)? I'd say it permanently affects time there, because there's likely no way for it to create alternate timelines.

TL;DR: Just the one it's used in.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:18 pm

It pretty much has to split everything, including the the other Universes. Otherwise, interactions with them would become overly complicated, as the main timeline we follow for Goku and friends isn't the original. It wouldn't just be a matter of traveling to the other universe, you would have to hop dimensions into the alternate timelines/parallel worlds/whatever-you-want-to-call-them. Seeing how Beerus & Whis are aware of the effects of time travel, but remained unaware that Trunks had done so and no mention of such an issue was previously mentioned by them or Champa & Vados either, it seems like everything splits.

At least, that's how it should and seems to have been setup to work thus far. Who knows what Toei will do by the end of the arc.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Desassina » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:13 pm

You can only occupy the place of someone else in a moment that is about to happen as you remember in history. Case in point: when Trunks travelled from his time to the main line, he took Goku's place when he hadn't before. Since the present was still on going, and Trunks' future had not yet happened, these changes were allowed to happen. Now, that doesn't mean that things were split into existence, only that they existed to be changed by someone else. They're not universes existing in space, but alternate dimensions or timelines that you can travel between as if they were places. They don't split as much as their events are changed, when they would be the same otherwise.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:32 pm

If you're subscribing to the material as stated throughout the franchise as a whole, then that's not how it works in Dragon Ball. You aren't just jumping to an alternate dimension that already exists and changing events there. The timelines literally split, creating new timelines/worlds/dimensions/whatever, as implied in the original series and stated in guidebooks, games and now Super's manga at least...the anime has been kinda vague on touching that subject.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Sandubadear » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:49 pm

All universes. For example, in the Universe 6 of Trunks' timeline, nothing really changed. However, once Champa and Vados leave U6 to go to U7 to hunt the Super Dragon Balls, they'll probably meet Beerus and Whis, but since Goku and everyone else is dead, they are slightly different, the U6 vs U7 tournament will never happen (maybe it happens, but it would be with different fighters), etc. Even if Beerus won the Super DBs like in the main timeline somehow, he wouldn't wish for U6 Earth to be restored since he never even met U7 Earth. The Beerus and Whis from Trunks' timeline also never went to U10 in order to investigate Zamasu since they wouldn't know about Black, so U10's history is also slightly different from the one in the main timeline.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Pantalones » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:53 pm

I don't see any reason why the alternate timelines would just branch of off the 7th universe, rather than having (most likely identical, since nothing in them actually changed aside from the rare few times when there's interactions between universes) alternate versions of the other universes too. All of the known universes are part of the same existence, not completely separate from each other like, say, the universe(s) of Dragonball and the universe of... I dunno... Bleach or something. It's hard to travel between them, regular spacecraft and such presumably can't pull it off, but it is possible for the gods and anyone who tags along with them.

I mean, it'd be pretty ridiculous if Trunks discovered a means of inter-universe transport (new Bulma invention I suppose?) and then just kind of... magically popped into the main timeline's 6th universe as a result, rather than the 6th universe of his own alternate timeline. It just makes no sense for it to work that way.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by MaxZ » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:45 am

I would imagine that it splits the timeline of the entire omniverse.

I feel like the Omniking can perceive all timelines simultaneously though, since he is the ultimate god. of course, that's just a gut feeling and it probably won't ever be touched on.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Desassina » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:56 am

The very simple notion that the main line had its own history before Trunks' changes took place points to it being separate all along. They wouldn't have noticed the existence of another timeline/dimension/whatever if they hadn't got in contact, so it works without compromising the idea that Trunks' future has not been corrected. Do you want evidence? Cell existed in the lab and arrived from the future in the main line, while in Trunks' time he had only existed in the lab, so the past before Freeza and King Cold was different. The presence of Cell did not reflect itself in Trunks' time, because he arrived to the main line from another. It's that simple.

Now, to answer the topic at hand, I believe that timelines hold the universes that exist in space, and not the other way around. However, if Zamasu is Goku Black, then it could be proved wrong. It would mean that Trunks' time needed to have a similar event to Goku meeting Zamasu in the past, when we know that it didn't happen. That doesn't rule out the possibility of Goku Black being different than Zamasu from Goku's time. Let's wait, because Zamasu could have served the purpose of diverting our attention, while Goku Black is somewhat different.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Kishido » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:42 am

Something different about the endless topic of timelines... Shouldn't Future Trunks at least have created 4 rings?

We had at least 3 different timelines parallel worlds at the Cell saga... And maybe the last ride opened a new one as well

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by TobyS » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:08 am

I'm dying to know about all this as well.

I like the think that the time nest from xenoverse is not “duplicated by time travel” but everything else must have been.

What bugs me is this means there are 4 sets of universes, with 4 Mira's, 4 Towa's. 4 Beerus's and 4 Whis's and 4 Omnikings.

I find it weird the omniking can be duplicated without consent. I wonder if he knows. Maybe he is outside it all like the time nest.... I'd love answers but I don't think we will get em.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:10 pm

dario03 wrote:Just something I've been wondering about since we have multiple universes now and Trunks is back with his time machine. Could be something that comes up later with the whole time traveling and who Black is. But has anything been said on this yet?
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:50 pm

We don't know yet.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:35 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:We don't know yet.
Yes, we do. There's no timeline change between universes, as depicted in Super ever since Champa was introduced.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Darknat » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:34 pm

It seems the timelines split all the universes. This is what I understood from Super episode 54 with the time rings being created after someone went back into the Past.

That said, if we take into account Xenoverse, the Time Vault and the Time Kaioshin are not splitted. However, this means that the Time Kaioshin should take care of all Universes.

Also, since Zeno really oversees everything, I don't really think he is splitted at all. but we don't know yet-

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by dario03 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:50 pm

Yeah episode 54 makes it sound like it splits all. But then again maybe somebody in Universe 10 used a time machine. After all they said a new ring appeared a few years ago but Trunks just now traveled back again so shouldn't there be another new one? Doesn't the time machine always split the time line? Or maybe it takes a while for new rings to show up.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Sandubadear » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:59 pm

dario03 wrote:Yeah episode 54 makes it sound like it splits all. But then again maybe somebody in Universe 10 used a time machine. After all they said a new ring appeared a few years ago but Trunks just now traveled back again so shouldn't there be another new one? Doesn't the time machine always split the time line? Or maybe it takes a while for new rings to show up.
Trunks says in the manga that he didn't change the settings of the time machine, so he would go to the same timeline.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by dario03 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:33 am

Sandubadear wrote:
dario03 wrote:Yeah episode 54 makes it sound like it splits all. But then again maybe somebody in Universe 10 used a time machine. After all they said a new ring appeared a few years ago but Trunks just now traveled back again so shouldn't there be another new one? Doesn't the time machine always split the time line? Or maybe it takes a while for new rings to show up.
Trunks says in the manga that he didn't change the settings of the time machine, so he would go to the same timeline.
It would still split though wouldnt it? Thats why theres more than 2 timelines.

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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by Sandubadear » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:49 am

dario03 wrote:
Sandubadear wrote:
dario03 wrote:Yeah episode 54 makes it sound like it splits all. But then again maybe somebody in Universe 10 used a time machine. After all they said a new ring appeared a few years ago but Trunks just now traveled back again so shouldn't there be another new one? Doesn't the time machine always split the time line? Or maybe it takes a while for new rings to show up.
Trunks says in the manga that he didn't change the settings of the time machine, so he would go to the same timeline.
It would still split though wouldnt it? Thats why theres more than 2 timelines.
No, why would it? Trunks didn't change the settings, so he went to the same timeline he already went twice before. The other timeline, Cell's, wasn't "created", but rather it existed before Trunks' and the main timeline diverged.
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Re: Does the time machine cause multiple time lines for all universes or just the one it is used in?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:53 am

dario03 wrote:It would still split though wouldnt it? Thats why theres more than 2 timelines.
If you go by Xenoverse lore, then yes. The time machine should split a timeline for at least every trip to the past (I don't know about the returns). As it's not the paradox prevention that causes time to split, but the fact that Bluma's time machine was imperfect.

Going by the Super Era lore...no? I mean, it really hasn't been delved into, but if it literally split for every trip, even just to the past, you would need more than 4 parallel world rings at this point (and more than "one" created by an idiot a few years ago, with just Universe 7's shenanigans):

1. Trunks traveled back to warn everyone about the robits.
2. Trunks travels back to help fight the robits.
3. Trunks travels back to tell everyone he defeated the robits.
4. Cell kills trunks and hijacks the time machine to absorb the robits.
5. Trunks travels back for help with Goku Black.

And depending on how you choose to interpretate time travel mechanics, you might need to repeat 1 and 2 from the Trunks in Cell's timeline.
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