How did Trunks come back to the present timeline in Age 767 without splitting the timeline?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Now, as we know when Trunks first traveled through time it caused the timeline to split, and then those timelines were split even further when Cell came back resulting in a total of 4 timelines, yet when Trunks comes back 3 years later he somehow avoids the creation of a new timeline. How is this possible?

[Sandubadear]

Because Bulma worked on the Time Machine and set the coordinates right. Just like how in Super, Bulma makes Cell's time machine go to Trunks' timeline instead of Cell's. I guess they could even travel to other timelines (the one created by the guy from Universe 12, for example) if they wanted to.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Because Bulma worked on the Time Machine and set the coordinates right. Just like how in Super, Bulma makes Cell's time machine go to Trunks' timeline instead of Cell's. I guess they could even travel to other timelines (the one created by the guy from Universe 12, for example) if they wanted to.

But Trunks coming to the present timeline should split it again and create a new timeline in which Trunks doesn't show up, right?

[Sandubadear]

But Trunks coming to the present timeline should split it again and create a new timeline in which Trunks doesn't show up, right?

That doesn't need to be the case. The history of the main timeline wasn't written in stone that Trunks would only appear once, so Trunks could appear as many times as he wanted (he appeared in Super without splitting the timeline again).

[TheUltimateNinja]

But Trunks coming to the present timeline should split it again and create a new timeline in which Trunks doesn't show up, right?

That doesn't need to be the case. The history of the main timeline wasn't written in stone that Trunks would only appear once, so Trunks could appear as many times as he wanted (he appeared in Super without splitting the timeline again).

But he did split the timeline, Black is from the original version of that timeline in which Trunks didn't show up.

[szopman]

No, he's not. It was clearly stated by the show that Trunks' arrival caused Black actions in the first place (time loop)

If they ignore GT and show some different events after the 28th TB we'll know that the timeline was splited

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, he's not. It was clearly stated by the show that Trunks' arrival caused Black actions in the first place (time loop)

If they ignore GT and show some different events after the 28th TB we'll know that the timeline was splited

It was due to Trunks' actions that Present Zamasu was killed by Beerus, without that Zamasu would have stolen Goku's body.

[Terra-jin]

Now, as we know when Trunks first traveled through time it caused the timeline to split, and then those timelines were split even further when Cell came back resulting in a total of 4 timelines, yet when Trunks comes back 3 years later he somehow avoids the creation of a new timeline. How is this possible?

Because new timelines are only created when you go to the past and 767 was in the future at that time.

The main timeline was at 765, running 20 years slow on Trunks' future, so 767 lay in the future. If he had gone to 767 of his own timeline, then yes he would've created a new one.

[szopman]

No, he's not. It was clearly stated by the show that Trunks' arrival caused Black actions in the first place (time loop)

If they ignore GT and show some different events after the 28th TB we'll know that the timeline was splited

It was due to Trunks' actions that Present Zamasu was killed by Beerus, without that Zamasu would have stolen Goku's body.

Nope. Black said that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku earlier, and the fight was cause of the Trunks' (and Black's) arrival in the main timeline.
Yes, originally Black stole later Goku's body and became Black, but Beers changed that by killing him. But since Black has this time-ring, he isn;t affected by the alteration of timeline etc. So the timeline changed, but Black is kind of out of the time stream now. I t was all stated very clearly in the show, i strongly recommend just re-watching these episodes.

[Terra-jin]

Nope. Black said that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku earlier, and the fight was cause of the Trunks' (and Black's) arrival in the main timeline.

It was stated by Beerus and Black, both of whom have demonstrated a lack of understanding of time travel.

Besides, that theory is logically contradictory.

[szopman]

Nope. Black said that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku earlier, and the fight was cause of the Trunks' (and Black's) arrival in the main timeline.

It was stated by Beerus and Black, both of whom have demonstrated a lack of understanding of time travel.

Besides, that theory is logically contradictory.

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Nope. Black said that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku earlier, and the fight was cause of the Trunks' (and Black's) arrival in the main timeline.

It was stated by Beerus and Black, both of whom have demonstrated a lack of understanding of time travel.

Besides, that theory is logically contradictory.

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

But if Trunks truly did not cause a split in the timeline then Black would never have the opportunity to take the ring and steal Goku's body in the first place as he would already be dead.

[szopman]

It was stated by Beerus and Black, both of whom have demonstrated a lack of understanding of time travel.

Besides, that theory is logically contradictory.

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

But if Trunks truly did not cause a split in the timeline then Black would never have the opportunity to take the ring and steal Goku's body in the first place as he would already be dead.

The thing is, he wouldn't have the ring, neither the Goku's body, if Trunks didn't show up It was the time loop, until Beerus broke it by killing Zamasu. But in original chain of events Zamasu is alive and well, takes Goku's body, kills his family and terrorizes Trunks' world Later Trunks goes back in time, informs everyone about Black, Goku fights Zamasu, Zamasu looses and later takes his body etc etc. and again and again (as I said, time loop stuff) until Beerus changes the timeline by killing Zamasu But even after killing Zamasu, Black's still alive because of the time-ring. He has it so the time alteration cannot affect him. If his past self die, he's still alive and well because of the time ring.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

But if Trunks truly did not cause a split in the timeline then Black would never have the opportunity to take the ring and steal Goku's body in the first place as he would already be dead.

The thing is, he wouldn't have the ring, neither the Goku's body, if Trunks didn't show up It was the time loop, until Beerus broke it by killing Zamasu. But in original chain of events Zamasu is alive and well, takes Goku's body, kills his family and terrorizes Trunks' world Later Trunks goes back in time, informs everyone about Black, Goku fights Zamasu, Zamasu looses and later takes his body etc etc. and again and again (as I said, time loop stuff) until Beerus changes the timeline by killing Zamasu But even after killing Zamasu, Black's still alive because of the time-ring. He has it so the time alteration cannot affect him. If his past self die, he's still alive and well because of the time ring.

But without Black Trunks has no reason to go back to the past in the first place.

[Terra-jin]

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

Hmmm... it's true that the series does seem to go for the broken causal loop theory.

I still stubbornly cling to the idea that Black is from the unseen timeline

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

Hmmm... it's true that the series does seem to go for the broken causal loop theory.

I still stubbornly cling to the idea that Black is from the unseen timeline

It can't be a causal loop as for Trunks to come back Black must first exist, and he can't exist without Trunks coming back and Trunks has no reason to come back without Black.

[Terra-jin]

It can't be a causal loop as for Trunks to come back Black must first exist, and he can't exist without Trunks coming back and Trunks has no reason to come back without Black.

I agree, it's a logically contradictory theory and therefore should be discarded. It's just that the series seems to imply that this is what they're going with.

There's still room for alternative theories, but you'd have to explain away a lot of dialogue. I try this by pointing to the complete lack of time travel expertise that Beerus and Black have both shown... so we can discount their statements. Beerus even says in episode 62 that Trunks' explanation (that denies Beerus' ability to erase Gods throughout timelines) makes a lot of sense on reflection.

[szopman]

Yes, it is contradictory. And yes, Berrus wasn't right about those stuff, he doesn't know much about this time travels etc.
But don;t you think that Black knows better if he is or if he is not the same Zamasu that fought Goku and was killed by Beerus (but thanks to the ring it didn't affected him) ?? I mean, in case of Black, he doesn't theorize, he just know who he is and where does he come from. And since he owe the time-ring, I think he know how it works better than Beerus.

Hmmm... it's true that the series does seem to go for the broken causal loop theory.

I still stubbornly cling to the idea that Black is from the unseen timeline

It can't be a causal loop as for Trunks to come back Black must first exist, and he can't exist without Trunks coming back and Trunks has no reason to come back without Black.

That's exactly what the casual loop is. Trunks goes to the main timeline because of Black. Black exist because of Trunks' arrival. There is no such thing as a point of the beginning in that case. Without Black, Trunks' would appear in Super's timeline. With our Trunks' journey in time, Black wouldn't appear in his timeline. It was the loop, which doesn't have any beginning or ending, where Trunks' arrival where both an result of Black's action and the main impulse the caused Black's actions. And until Beerus killed Zamasu, it was a perfect time-loop, like in the first Terminator film or 12 monkeys. But, Beerus altered the main timeline and now Zamasu is dead. But it's still the same Zamasu that became Black, because Black has this time ring so he's out of the timeline. Even if you erased the whole timeline from which he came from, he would be still alive, thanks to the time ring.

I try this by pointing to the complete lack of time travel expertise that Beerus and Black have both shown... so we can discount their statements.

But in case of Black, what he gives us are not any theories, hypothesis etc. He exactly know who he is and where did he come from. He doesn't say "probably I'm the Zamasu you fought few episodes earlier". He says clearly that he IS the same Zamasu. And if he says that, I think he knows cause he speaks about himself.

that denies Beerus' ability to erase Gods throughout timelines

That probably might have worked, if Black wouldn't have this ring. Because of the ring, he can't be erased or altered.

[Terra-jin]

But in case of Black, what he gives us are not any theories, hypothesis etc. He exactly know who he is and where did he come from. He doesn't say "probably I'm the Zamasu you fought few episodes earlier". He says clearly that he IS the same Zamasu. And if he says that, I think he knows cause he speaks about himself.

Hmmmm... he says he fought Goku and lost and thinks that our Goku is the same one that he fought. That still leaves room for the interpretation that Black misunderstood and that the Goku whose body he took is from a different timeline than our Goku. But I'll concede that your interpretation is the one that the series seems to validate. Still, I haven't yet seen a logically consistent explanation of it.

The manga seems to handle things differently: Zamasu learns of Goku through U7 Kaioshin and Kamitube. Hopefully it'll clear things up!

[szopman]

But in case of Black, what he gives us are not any theories, hypothesis etc. He exactly know who he is and where did he come from. He doesn't say "probably I'm the Zamasu you fought few episodes earlier". He says clearly that he IS the same Zamasu. And if he says that, I think he knows cause he speaks about himself.

Hmmmm... he says he fought Goku and lost and thinks that our Goku is the same one that he fought. That still leaves room for the interpretation that Black misunderstood and that the Goku whose body he took is from a different timeline than our Goku. But I'll concede that your interpretation is the one that the series seems to validate. Still, I haven't yet seen a logically consistent explanation of it.

The manga seems to handle things differently: Zamasu learns of Goku through U7 Kaioshin and Kamitube. Hopefully it'll clear things up!

When Black explains the stuff (how he obtained the body, killed Chi-chi etc) we see the flashbacks of his encounter with Goku from few episodes earlier, so It also implies that he is the same Zamasu
But I don't say my explanation is very logical, cause it's not. I'm just saying' that this is the explanation that the anime gave us. That's all Probably the more logical would be your theory about Black being from different timeline
And yes, probably manga's version of the saga will show some different chain of events and then the mess will start