Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

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Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:13 pm

It's never said in the manga what you'd call someone from Planet Vegeta they're always called saiyans

So would you call them:
Vegtese?
Vegetian?
Vegetan?
Vegetarian? :lol:

Nothing quite roles of the tongue.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:16 pm

Plants. Remember, Plant was the original name of the planet, and the people there resembled plants.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:58 pm

Saiyan.

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Grimlock » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:04 pm

"Vegeta" is just in honor of their king. Who is born in planet Salad is Saladjin or Sadal is Sadaljin.

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Sandubadear » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:45 pm

Grimlock wrote:Who is born in planet Salad is Saladjin or Sadal is Sadaljin.
I thought Cabba said he is a Saiyajin.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Helios518 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:49 pm

Sandubadear wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Who is born in planet Salad is Saladjin or Sadal is Sadaljin.
I thought Cabba said he is a Saiyajin.
Saiyan is the race name, Like what human is. Saladjin/Saladjin/Sadal is the name of what you're called when born on Sadal, like what Earthling is (even Piccolo is considered an Earthling).
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Sandubadear » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Helios518 wrote:Saiyan is the race name, Like what human is. Saladjin/Saladjin/Sadal is the name of what you're called when born on Sadal, like what Earthling is (even Piccolo is considered an Earthling).
"Human" in Dragon Ball means a person in general, not the specific race who lives on Earth. For example, Zamasu calls the Babari-jins humans. Ginyu also calls himself a human way back in the Freeza arc. When they are mentioning the race who lives on Earth, they always say Earthling.

This Sadala-jin was never used officially, you shouldn't just invent names like that.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Helios518 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:02 pm

Sandubadear wrote:
Helios518 wrote:Saiyan is the race name, Like what human is. Saladjin/Saladjin/Sadal is the name of what you're called when born on Sadal, like what Earthling is (even Piccolo is considered an Earthling).
"Human" in Dragon Ball means a person in general, not the specific race who lives on Earth. For example, Zamasu calls the Babari-jins humans. Ginyu also calls himself a human way back in the Freeza arc. When they are mentioning the race who lives on Earth, they always say Earthling.
Hm, pretty much a DB thing then. Well /thread.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Pantalones » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:31 am

"Human" in Dragon Ball means a person in general, not the specific race who lives on Earth. For example, Zamasu calls the Babari-jins humans. Ginyu also calls himself a human way back in the Freeza arc. When they are mentioning the race who lives on Earth, they always say Earthling.
*buzzer*

The Japanese word "ningen" as used to mean "people/beings/individuals" rather than the literal translation of "humans" is not unique to Dragonball. I've seen it used in such a way in other anime, too. The example that comes to mind right away is a scene in Soul Eater where Medusa mentions that "ningen" from Lord Death's school aren't allowed to attack her due to an agreement between them... among the people attacking is Death the Kid, who is not a human but a shinigami/Grim Reaper. Which is, by the way, a being that would not be called "ningen" in Dragonball (well, at least not by Zamasu), due to shinigami qualifying as gods!

I really don't get why some people insist on translating it as "human" and then inventing some "oh, Dragonball uses the word 'human' differently!" fan-theory to explain away their insistence on using an awkwardly literal translation. No, Dragonball does not use the English word "human" differently than other series -- it uses the Japanese word "ningen" in the same way a lot of other anime do. And when those are translated they don't awkwardly shoehorn in the word "human" wherever "ningen" was originally found just because.

Seeing how Zamasu is the one who uses the word more than anyone else... it's ridiculously obvious that he means something along the lines of "people who aren't gods" when he says "ningen." Probably the easiest way to get that across is to have him talking about "mortals," which is pretty commonly used to mean "not-gods" in a lot of settings. Insisting on the awkward usage of "human" to refer to, say, Namekians (or other species even less human-like!) just because a Google Translate-style unnaturally literal translation happens to see "ningen" and translate to "human" is just silly.

...also, from a quick bit of research it seems that the word "ningen" can be traced back to words that basically meant "human world." As in, Earth, or on a larger scale, the universe as we know it. Which ties in with how Buddhist cosmology divides existence up into different "worlds/realms," with the world as we know it being the "human world," and others being the realms of the gods, demons, Hell, etc. Which... yep, sounds like Dragonball's "universe/heaven/hell/Demon Realm/Kaioshin Realm" setup. That seems to be the meaning of "ningen" that Dragonball is using -- "people from planets in the mortal universe, not demons or gods from other realms." And for that, "human" is a pretty poor translation. Worse than many of the dub's changed attack names. At least "Destructo Disk," cheesy as it may sound, gets the point across without any awkward tacked-on explanation required -- it is indeed a disk that can destroy things, just like the name says (a lot like how the Japanese name tells you that it's a circle of ki that cuts things.)

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Marco Polo » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:49 am

^ So how would you translate it?

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by emperior » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:02 am

Marco Polo wrote:^ So how would you translate it?
He said mortals would be more accurate. But it would create even more confusion in my opinion, as Zamasu asks for immortality so people would be wondering if he calls everyone "mortal" because of his immortality.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:45 pm

Yes, that's exactly why I cannot swallow "mortal" as an appropriate translation for "ningen" in this series. Immortality is a concept that is very well defined in Dragon Ball. And it is very well established that gods do not have it. So drawing a distinction between gods and mortals makes absolutely no sense. None. At all.

Honestly, this supposed controversy with the word "human" draws from two sources, as far as I see it. One is the fandom. They (and I include myself in that until recently) ubiquitously refer to the fighters from earth as "the human fighters." So suddenly seeing it brought to prominence, thanks to Dragon Team's subtitles, is jarring for them. It would be like if the series came up with an official name for the power boost that Saiyans endure after battles/near death, and fans got all up in arms that it wasn't "zenkai."

The other source is the same mindset that causes some fans to complain about the green guy in the sky being referred to as a "god." I definitely see it crop up here from time to time: "That's not what I understand the word 'god' to mean; therefore, it should be changed." And, yes, there is an argument to made, just like with "ningen," that "kami" can be taken as a broader term than the English word "god." But at the same time, it's probably the best translation, just like human probably is. I just don't see how it's difficult to pick up in context that a god complaining about humans is clearly talking about non-gods, just like how I find it easy to accept that a man wearing robes and living in the sky is a "god," even if he can die and doesn't follow the Judeo-Christian interpretation of God.

Then again, I am also a huge fan of Star Trek, which uses the term "humanoid" (which clearly has the word human in it) to refer to all species that share basic characteristic with humans. And it's also a franchise that features planets upon planets inhabited by straight-up humans, so I'm used to humans not simply referring to the inhabitants of earth.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:27 pm

I believe the technical term would be 'Vegeta-seijin'
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by floofychan333 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:36 pm

I think Vegetian is a decent alternate name but I guess Toriyama liked the Saiya-jin pun so that stuck around.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Adrian Malacoda » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:41 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Yes, that's exactly why I cannot swallow "mortal" as an appropriate translation for "ningen" in this series. Immortality is a concept that is very well defined in Dragon Ball. And it is very well established that gods do not have it. So drawing a distinction between gods and mortals makes absolutely no sense. None. At all.

Honestly, this supposed controversy with the word "human" draws from two sources, as far as I see it. One is the fandom. They (and I include myself in that until recently) ubiquitously refer to the fighters from earth as "the human fighters." So suddenly seeing it brought to prominence, thanks to Dragon Team's subtitles, is jarring for them. It would be like if the series came up with an official name for the power boost that Saiyans endure after battles/near death, and fans got all up in arms that it wasn't "zenkai."

The other source is the same mindset that causes some fans to complain about the green guy in the sky being referred to as a "god." I definitely see it crop up here from time to time: "That's not what I understand the word 'god' to mean; therefore, it should be changed." And, yes, there is an argument to made, just like with "ningen," that "kami" can be taken as a broader term than the English word "god." But at the same time, it's probably the best translation, just like human probably is. I just don't see how it's difficult to pick up in context that a god complaining about humans is clearly talking about non-gods, just like how I find it easy to accept that a man wearing robes and living in the sky is a "god," even if he can die and doesn't follow the Judeo-Christian interpretation of God.

Then again, I am also a huge fan of Star Trek, which uses the term "humanoid" (which clearly has the word human in it) to refer to all species that share basic characteristic with humans. And it's also a franchise that features planets upon planets inhabited by straight-up humans, so I'm used to humans not simply referring to the inhabitants of earth.
I'm also fond of translating the word literally, but I can understand why people would prefer a looser adaptation of the term. I'm not sure "mortal" is the best term though because as you said it implies that gods are not mortal, which is not the case (and is an important plot point). Maybe "people" would be a better alternative (although technically the definition for people just refers back to humans), but I'm sure there's a caveat to that too. I've also noticed some people just using "ningen" untranslated, for what it's worth.

It's also worth noting that some other sci-fi featuring humanoid aliens (e.g. Star Trek, as you mentioned) tends to define "humans" as "people of Earth" so that might also contribute to a reticence to consider Saiyans or Namekians human. On the other hand, people seem to have no trouble referring to aliens as "people" both in DB and in other franchises.

One issue I've noticed recently as a result of people translating "ningen" as "mortal" is people not understanding that "human" is in fact the correct translation and "mortal" is a less literal interpretation; I saw at least one comment on a Dragon Ball (subtitled) video where Mr. Popo calls Goku a human which said "stupid translation, it means mortal not human."

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Thouser » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:51 am

floofychan333 wrote:I think Vegetian is a decent alternate name but I guess Toriyama liked the Saiya-jin pun so that stuck around.
This makes me wonder... why exactly did Toriyama decide that Saiyans ("Saiya People"; i.e. yasai/vegetable people) would come from a "Planet Vegeta" rather than a "Planet Saiya?" Maybe he came up with two different vegetable-related puns, couldn't pick one, so he just decided to use both?

As for what a hypothetical "Vegeta-jin" would be called in English, I'd go with "Vegetan." The name already ends in an "a" like "Saiya," so adding an "n" to the end would be sufficient. "Vegetian" would imply they were from "Vegetia."
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Son Gara » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:13 am

Pride and heritage were so strongly beaten into the fibers of their beings, that it probably wouldn't matter what planet they called "home"; they would still refer to themselves as Saiyans rather than after the name of the planet they were inhabiting.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by rereboy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:18 am

Thouser wrote:This makes me wonder... why exactly did Toriyama decide that Saiyans ("Saiya People"; i.e. yasai/vegetable people) would come from a "Planet Vegeta" rather than a "Planet Saiya?" Maybe he came up with two different vegetable-related puns, couldn't pick one, so he just decided to use both?

As for what a hypothetical "Vegeta-jin" would be called in English, I'd go with "Vegetan." The name already ends in an "a" like "Saiya," so adding an "n" to the end would be sufficient. "Vegetian" would imply they were from "Vegetia."
Because Saiyans aren't originally from planet Vegeta. Originally, they were from planet Saiya and then they migrated/invaded planet Plant, which they then renamed Vegeta in honor of their King.

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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by Sandubadear » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:11 pm

rereboy wrote:Because Saiyans aren't originally from planet Vegeta. Originally, they were from planet Saiya and then they migrated/invaded planet Plant, which they then renamed Vegeta in honor of their King.
They were from planet Sadala, not Saiya.
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Re: Earth = Earthling. Namek = Namekian. Vegeta = ???

Post by phattangent » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:19 pm

Sandubadear wrote:
rereboy wrote:Because Saiyans aren't originally from planet Vegeta. Originally, they were from planet Saiya and then they migrated/invaded planet Plant, which they then renamed Vegeta in honor of their King.
They were from planet Sadala, not Saiya.
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