How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

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Perfectionist-Cell
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How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Perfectionist-Cell » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:37 pm

Would he be able to beat Goku Vegeta or Frieza?

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by ssjjanemba » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:41 pm

Goku did say that Hit has some abilities that were forbidden in the tournament. So i think hit's assassin abilities would give him advantage in those match ups.
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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Desassina » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:43 pm

Hit couldn't be measured by how strong his attacks were, since he had been holding back, but his resistance to Goku's Super Kaioken Blue. I would dare say that they are in the same realm of power, which is above Freeza's. I don't think Goku and Vegeta's training put them on a different realm, only marginally stronger, with the same base 10 to the power of 7. With Kaioken x10, that exponent is made out to be 8, which could be Hit's as well.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:40 pm

Anime Hit is above SSB.

Manga Hit is about equal with SSG.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:56 am

He would still do pretty well, he has like pressure point techniques and he has fast hands albeit not heavy attacks according to Vegeta.
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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:52 am

Captain Strawberry wrote:he has like pressure point techniques.
Are we sure those exist in Dragonball?

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by nickzambuto » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:39 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Captain Strawberry wrote:he has like pressure point techniques.
Are we sure those exist in Dragonball?
Pressure point strikes are a basic component of martial arts fiction. Characters strike pressure points literally all the time in Dragon Ball.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Neon Z » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:16 pm

dragon boss z wrote:Anime Hit is above SSB.

Manga Hit is about equal with SSG
.
He's above that, considering how when he stopped holding back Goku jumped further to SSB in order to break his Time Skip. In spite of that he still managed to dodge Goku's attack though, so he's around SSB level, while in the anime he ends up around 10 times above that when growing during the battle.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:22 pm

Neon Z wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:Anime Hit is above SSB.

Manga Hit is about equal with SSG
.
He's above that, considering how when he stopped holding back Goku jumped further to SSB in order to break his Time Skip. In spite of that he still managed to dodge Goku's attack though, so he's around SSB level, while in the anime he ends up around 10 times above that when growing during the battle.
No, without his time skip he wouldn't of even of beat SSG. Hit even said he was using up so much power he would only be able to stop time one more time. Goku going SSB to break out of the time stop proves SSB>Hit. Hit's full power is probably slightly above SSG, but like Hit said he can't maintain that power.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Neon Z » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:00 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Neon Z wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:Anime Hit is above SSB.

Manga Hit is about equal with SSG
.
He's above that, considering how when he stopped holding back Goku jumped further to SSB in order to break his Time Skip. In spite of that he still managed to dodge Goku's attack though, so he's around SSB level, while in the anime he ends up around 10 times above that when growing during the battle.
No, without his time skip he wouldn't of even of beat SSG. Hit even said he was using up so much power he would only be able to stop time one more time. Goku going SSB to break out of the time stop proves SSB>Hit. Hit's full power is probably slightly above SSG, but like Hit said he can't maintain that power.
He still managed to dodge Goku's Kamehameha in spite of him not being able to use the Timeskip against SSB, and Goku saw that moment as the best chance to get a decisive attack against him. So, he needs to be somewhere on the level. It's said in the manga that his timeskip only works if the opponents is weaker than him - even going SSJ reduced its length. Hit assumed that he'd be able stop SSJ God fully once he stopped holding back, which suggests a substantial power difference. So, SSB doesn't need to be much stronger than him in order to break his Time Stop, which lines up with him still (barely) dodging the Kamehameha anyway.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:24 pm

Neon Z wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Neon Z wrote: He's above that, considering how when he stopped holding back Goku jumped further to SSB in order to break his Time Skip. In spite of that he still managed to dodge Goku's attack though, so he's around SSB level, while in the anime he ends up around 10 times above that when growing during the battle.
No, without his time skip he wouldn't of even of beat SSG. Hit even said he was using up so much power he would only be able to stop time one more time. Goku going SSB to break out of the time stop proves SSB>Hit. Hit's full power is probably slightly above SSG, but like Hit said he can't maintain that power.
He still managed to dodge Goku's Kamehameha in spite of him not being able to use the Timeskip against SSB, and Goku saw that moment as the best chance to get a decisive attack against him. So, he needs to be somewhere on the level. It's said in the manga that his timeskip only works if the opponents is weaker than him - even going SSJ reduced its length. Hit assumed that he'd be able stop SSJ God fully once he stopped holding back, which suggests a substantial power difference. So, SSB doesn't need to be much stronger than him in order to break his Time Stop, which lines up with him still (barely) dodging the Kamehameha anyway.
Ya but Hit said his body couldn't even handle his full power for a single minute. Hit's full power is above SSG, but if it can't even last a minute he probably wouldn't even beat SSG Goku without the timeskip.
Going by Toriyama's original scale I would say
SSG Goku: 6
Hit's full power: 6.5
SSB Goku: 7

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:37 pm

nickzambuto wrote:
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Captain Strawberry wrote:he has like pressure point techniques.
Are we sure those exist in Dragonball?
Pressure point strikes are a basic component of martial arts fiction. Characters strike pressure points literally all the time in Dragon Ball.
Can you think of an example that can't be explained with just a powerful strike?

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:50 pm

He would still kick SSJB Goku's ass, at least in the anime. But in the manga, Hit's power is far more reliant on how much he can use the Time-Skip and without it, it's very unlikely he's even above SSJG Goku.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:14 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote: Are we sure those exist in Dragonball?
Pressure point strikes are a basic component of martial arts fiction. Characters strike pressure points literally all the time in Dragon Ball.
Can you think of an example that can't be explained with just a powerful strike?
The rock portion of Goku's Jan-ken/ Rock Scissors Paper fist is a punch to the pressure point between the eyes, which is how he killed the Bear Thief in one blow. A large section of Yamcha's Rogafufu-ken/Wolf Fang Fist is a barrage of pressure point strikes.

At the 21st tournament, Jackie Chun used a double neck chop on Krillin from behind that paralyzed him for a long time. Goku picked this technique up and later used it on Tao to deal massive damage. Tao himself killed Blue with a pressure point strike, killed his tailor with a poke between the eyes, and used pressure point strikes on Goku as part of that big combo, although they were ineffective. Namu also used a pressure point strike to defeat Ranfan at the tournament, and his signature cross arm strike targets pressure points in the throat. In the anime, Krillin was captured by a giant, but broke his grip with a strike to a pressure point in between the thumb and index finger that forced his hand to snap open.

Goku would later use another pressure point strike to gently incapacitate Chappa, Vegeta used a pressure point chop to gently knock Trunks unconscious (he did not provide Goten the same comfort), and Gohan used pressure point strikes and pinches to gently incapacitate Freeza's soldiers in RF.

These are all obviously pressure point strikes because of their placement and the technique (when a character is using their fingers, odds are it's not a punch) as well as their result (instant paralyzation, partial paralyzation, or incapacitation) and unique sound effects (often it's a cute little "bloop" instead of a punching sound). They are used to gently defeat opponents in cases of a massive power gap, if they were just strong blows then these characters would be sent flying, not drop on the spot as they do.

The three most impressive/knowledgeable pressure point users are probably Tenshinhan (in the anime, half his attacks are pressure points. In the manga, he was able to tag Goku with a pressure point barrage, and it's obviously incredibly hard to land precise pressure points on another master fighter, and also he used one effectively on a Saibaman with completely alien biology), Roshi (he knew a pressure point that could paralyze manwolf in place while allowing him to maintain consciousness, in the anime he nailed Ten with a pressure point that momentarily paralyzed his arm), and Beerus (he was able to shut Piccolo down with pressure points so sensitive and precise, that all he needed was a pair of regular chopsticks. He also shut down saiyans with taps. His pressure points seem to shut down ki flow, and he's utilized effective pressure points on multiple different species. There's also Whis doing the same thing to Beerus himself.)

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:03 pm

Captain Strawberry wrote:He would still do pretty well, he has like pressure point techniques and he has fast hands albeit not heavy attacks according to Vegeta.
That was just at the start of their fight when Hit was holding back a huge amount of power, he later wrecks Vegeta with some heavy attacks.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:58 pm

Manga hit is around SSG goku level..
That's his full power though, which he can't maintain for long..
Anime hit is around ssb level, weaker actually.. he only managed to do what he did because of his time skip, ssb goku was whopping his ass when he didn't use it..
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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:59 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:Manga hit is around SSG goku level..
That's his full power though, which he can't maintain for long..
Anime hit is around ssb level, weaker actually.. he only managed to do what he did because of his time skip, ssb goku was whopping his ass when he didn't use it..
Except he's not weaker than SSJB Goku at all in the anime. Hell, Goku had to use Kaioken x10 on top of Super Saiyan Blue just to get the advantage, because prior to that, Hit was kicking Goku's ass, even without the Time-Skip ability. And even when Goku busted out the Kaioken, he still couldn't defeat Hit. And Hit wasn't even going all out.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Manga hit is around SSG goku level..
That's his full power though, which he can't maintain for long..
Anime hit is around ssb level, weaker actually.. he only managed to do what he did because of his time skip, ssb goku was whopping his ass when he didn't use it..
Except he's not weaker than SSJB Goku at all in the anime. Hell, Goku had to use Kaioken x10 on top of Super Saiyan Blue just to get the advantage, because prior to that, Hit was kicking Goku's ass, even without the Time-Skip ability. And even when Goku busted out the Kaioken, he still couldn't defeat Hit. And Hit wasn't even going all out.
Huh :eh:
Didn't hit get his ass beat by goku when he went blue, be was taking hits left and right, hit got buried into the ground and also said this is his current limit, and during this hit wasn't using his tokitobashi..
Then goku said yes, now use your tokitobashi..

After hit started using tokitobashi full force goku had to go kaioken to top that..

I commented on his raw power without time skip, he was given the line which specifically states him saying that was his limit while not using tokitobashi..

This all clearly shows hit us below ssb in raw strength..
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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:19 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Manga hit is around SSG goku level..
That's his full power though, which he can't maintain for long..
Anime hit is around ssb level, weaker actually.. he only managed to do what he did because of his time skip, ssb goku was whopping his ass when he didn't use it..
Except he's not weaker than SSJB Goku at all in the anime. Hell, Goku had to use Kaioken x10 on top of Super Saiyan Blue just to get the advantage, because prior to that, Hit was kicking Goku's ass, even without the Time-Skip ability. And even when Goku busted out the Kaioken, he still couldn't defeat Hit. And Hit wasn't even going all out.
Huh :eh:
Didn't hit get his ass beat by goku when he went blue, be was taking hits left and right, hit got buried into the ground and also said this is his current limit, and during this hit wasn't using his tokitobashi..
Then goku said yes, now use your tokitobashi..

After hit started using tokitobashi full force goku had to go kaioken to top that..

I commented on his raw power without time skip, he was given the line which specifically states him saying that was his limit while not using tokitobashi..

This all clearly shows hit us below ssb in raw strength..
If Hit was below SSJB in terms of raw strength, then one punch from SSJBKKx10 Goku should have imploded him. Remember, Hit wasn't going all out but Goku was. I mean, if Goku wasn't going all out, he wouldn't have resorted to using the Kaioken.

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Re: How well would Hit do without his Timeskip?

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:29 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Except he's not weaker than SSJB Goku at all in the anime. Hell, Goku had to use Kaioken x10 on top of Super Saiyan Blue just to get the advantage, because prior to that, Hit was kicking Goku's ass, even without the Time-Skip ability. And even when Goku busted out the Kaioken, he still couldn't defeat Hit. And Hit wasn't even going all out.
Huh :eh:
Didn't hit get his ass beat by goku when he went blue, be was taking hits left and right, hit got buried into the ground and also said this is his current limit, and during this hit wasn't using his tokitobashi..
Then goku said yes, now use your tokitobashi..

After hit started using tokitobashi full force goku had to go kaioken to top that..

I commented on his raw power without time skip, he was given the line which specifically states him saying that was his limit while not using tokitobashi..

This all clearly shows hit us below ssb in raw strength..
If Hit was below SSJB in terms of raw strength, then one punch from SSJBKKx10 Goku should have imploded him. Remember, Hit wasn't going all out but Goku was. I mean, if Goku wasn't going all out, he wouldn't have resorted to using the Kaioken.
I get what you are saying..
But then what do you make of the line when hit stated this is his current limit?
If he has more power he was hiding, he wouldn't have been forced to improve his tokitobashi.. he even said you guys can power up just by transforming and I gotta improve to do so..
You don't need to improve when you are holding back, you do when you you are giving it all and still getting your ass handed..

I think you are confused with what was meant by hit was holding back..
He was holding back his killing moves, not his power..
Those killing moves are what makes him so strong..

The way I see it is
Hit gets wreaked by ssb goku,
hit is forced to improve tokitobashi,
goku uses kaioken to overpower his tokitobashi not him, goku figured tokitobashi won't work on him if he is 10 times stronger than hit, and he was correct, goku moved between hits tokitobashi ,
Then Goku saying I am waay beyond your tokitobashi now,
Hit improving his tokitobashi even further not raising his power
You know what happened after that..

And how he didn't explode when kaioken goku punched him, goku wasn't trying to kill hit, he wanted to defeat him, he held back his power while punching hit and only used it to overpower tokitobashi..

This is also proved by how so many attacks needed by hit tires goku but Goku's one punch tires hit the same amount..
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