If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

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If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Angelus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:47 am

Didn't he Kamehameha himself on the ship? Vegeta said to Krillin that a zenkai won't be achieve if it's self-inflicted. So there was no zenkai abuse on that ship then? Goku's power gain was just the result of training under 100G?

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:14 am

Vegeta making shit up because he's too narcissistic to directly harm himself.

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:14 am

Vegeta is too much of a pussy to harm himself so he made it up..
Well if you want him to look good, vegeta is a warrior and by beating himself to get a zenkai is shameful ( somehow )

Zenkais definitely work for any injury, the goku example you gave is one..
Even black out a sword through his hand and got a major power boost, call it anger or zenkai, I think it's a combination of both..
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Rocketman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:21 am

Other than calling it a plothole/mistake, the only thing I can think of is that there's some difference between how Goku was doing it and how Vegeta thought of it.

Goku was firing off a beam on a curve then steeling himself to try to tank it, while Vegeta presumably would drop his power put his hand to his gut and blast.

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:29 am

Nowhere in the manga was it insinuated that his power on Namek came from zenkai boosts, that presumption comes from anime-only material. His power came from training in 100g, a feat that had never been done before.
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Angelus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:14 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Nowhere in the manga was it insinuated that his power on Namek came from zenkai boosts, that presumption comes from anime-only material. His power came from training in 100g, a feat that had never been done before.
So in the manga, Goku never Kamehameha'd himself to near death in that trip to Namek?

If he didn't Kamehameha himself in the manga, then this would be the 3rd or 4th thread that I can recall off the top of my head, that I will scream.. Those damn fillers!

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:23 am

Angelus wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Nowhere in the manga was it insinuated that his power on Namek came from zenkai boosts, that presumption comes from anime-only material. His power came from training in 100g, a feat that had never been done before.
So in the manga, Goku never Kamehameha'd himself to near death in that trip to Namek?

If he didn't Kamehameha himself in the manga, then this would be the 3rd or 4th thread that I can recall off the top of my head, that I will scream.. Those damn fillers!
I don't remember if that specific scene happened or not, but I can check later. However, a zenkai boost is certainly never implied, unless I'm forgetting something.

If you can afford the manga, I encourage you to buy it. Even if you're just getting a cheap version, it's worth reading.
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:12 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Angelus wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Nowhere in the manga was it insinuated that his power on Namek came from zenkai boosts, that presumption comes from anime-only material. His power came from training in 100g, a feat that had never been done before.
So in the manga, Goku never Kamehameha'd himself to near death in that trip to Namek?

If he didn't Kamehameha himself in the manga, then this would be the 3rd or 4th thread that I can recall off the top of my head, that I will scream.. Those damn fillers!
I don't remember if that specific scene happened or not, but I can check later. However, a zenkai boost is certainly never implied, unless I'm forgetting something.

If you can afford the manga, I encourage you to buy it. Even if you're just getting a cheap version, it's worth reading.
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Narrator: “Goku had continued this insane pattern of pushing his body and ki to the brink of death, then refreshing himself again by eating a senzu. The 7 senzu he received from Lord Karin have already fallen to only 3…However, though this training is outrageous, perhaps Goku has somehow realized the Saiyan characteristic of their strength increasing when they overcome death…”
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:15 am

My bad then. I don't know how I forgot, I literally just read it.
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Angelus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:27 am

Oh so it was still a zenkai boost but there was no scene of Goku self-inflicting damage, via Kamehamehas, in the manga? He was basically just training under such extreme gravity that he almost died, but ate a senzu?

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:33 am

Angelus wrote:Oh so it was still a zenkai boost but there was no scene of Goku self-inflicting damage, via Kamehamehas, in the manga? He was basically just training under such extreme gravity that he almost died, but ate a senzu?
I checked my manga, and it's right, the narrator does pretty much say outright that Goku got stronger through Zenkai's. This is just from me flipping through, so I could be wrong, but I don't see many instances of the training itself, and definitely nothing where he's intentionally bringing himself near death. So there's no plot-hole by a technicality.
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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Darkprince410 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:11 pm

Angelus wrote:Oh so it was still a zenkai boost but there was no scene of Goku self-inflicting damage, via Kamehamehas, in the manga? He was basically just training under such extreme gravity that he almost died, but ate a senzu?
That did indeed happen in the manga.

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And it is in those final two panels that the narrator makes the comment about him learning about the near-death power-up

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Angelus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:17 pm

Well, looks like this contradicts with Vegeta's statement. :eh:

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:42 pm

Angelus wrote:Well, looks like this contradicts with Vegeta's statement. :eh:
And it makes you wonder why the hell Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Future Trunks didn't abuse that shit when training in the ROSAT during the Android/Cell arc. Just have some senzu beans on stand-by and they would have wrecked Cell.

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Zephyr » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:39 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Angelus wrote:Well, looks like this contradicts with Vegeta's statement. :eh:
And it makes you wonder why the hell Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Future Trunks didn't abuse that shit when training in the ROSAT during the Android/Cell arc. Just have some senzu beans on stand-by and they would have wrecked Cell.
Isn't the common explanation for that being that the boosts have negligible effects after they became Super Saiyans?

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:41 pm

Angelus wrote:Didn't he Kamehameha himself on the ship? Vegeta said to Krillin that a zenkai won't be achieve if it's self-inflicted. So there was no zenkai abuse on that ship then? Goku's power gain was just the result of training under 100G?
I think most of it was from the 100g.

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by buutenks » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:52 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Angelus wrote:Didn't he Kamehameha himself on the ship? Vegeta said to Krillin that a zenkai won't be achieve if it's self-inflicted. So there was no zenkai abuse on that ship then? Goku's power gain was just the result of training under 100G?
I think most of it was from the 100g.
The zenkai boosts allowed Goku to get strong quickly to be able to train in high gravity.

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Re: If zenkais won't work if they're self-inflicted, how did Goku get so many on his way to Namek?

Post by Nejishiki » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:57 am

Zephyr wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Angelus wrote:Well, looks like this contradicts with Vegeta's statement. :eh:
And it makes you wonder why the hell Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Future Trunks didn't abuse that shit when training in the ROSAT during the Android/Cell arc. Just have some senzu beans on stand-by and they would have wrecked Cell.
Isn't the common explanation for that being that the boosts have negligible effects after they became Super Saiyans?
That's correct. Additionally, it comes with the risk of accidentally killing yourself. It's better to earn strength naturally through newer training philosophies. The moments where characters utilized extreme methods to advance their strength were committed with (usually urgent) purpose. There's a difference between Vegeta desperately needing a power boost against an enemy right in front of him and Vegeta attempting to climb over the Super Saiyan wall in a (chaotically) controlled environment for a year.

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