What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

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What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:35 pm

From watching the anime (DBZ/Kai) & reading the manga, It seems to me that out of the 16 canonical soldiers (22 if you count the designing or coloring errors that made it seem like there were other soldiers there along the ones we see in Cold's spaceship) the majority are around Vegeta-Cui tier (excluding Iru and the other soldier with the arm canon) while the few stronger henchmen (Captain, Fisshi, Jeice-esque etc.) were at least around the Zarbon-Dodoria's tier, Mecha-Frieza considered them to be strong enough to handle the Earthlings' resistance even though he, himself in his lower forms, had troubles to handle them on Namek (in Resurrection 'F' it seems like he didn't knew Piccolo was living on Earth, but he knew that Gohan - who back at the beginning of the fight had a power level of 200,000 - was a local Earthling) which would place them even higher than the notorious members of the Ginyu Force (excluding Captain Ginyu) who weren't even near as strong as Krillin was when the battle vs. Frieza began (75,000).

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I believe that King Cold - whose existence, according to Daizenshuu 7, was so secret not even the Ginyu Force were aware of him (despite Other World Tournament & Kid Buu Sagas' filler scenes + GT) - won't be hiring weaklings to serve as his direct command unit.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
The only time where we see them, in their original appearance (+ Cooler's Armored Squadron recolored sprites), clash with the Z-Fighters is in the 1992's NES game "Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoningen" (Act 4 / Trunks Saga) where the human Z-Fighters (Krillin, Tien, Yamcha & Chiaotzu) have to fight them to free humans they've kidnapped.

However, and that's why I began to research this topic, in their later video games appearances they're always depicted as weaklings like the low-level Frieza Soldiers we saw on Namek (less than 1,500 BP): their depictions in "Dragon Ball Z: Budokai" (2002) is of Sui, Banan and Raspberry; [spoiler]Image[/spoiler] in "Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku II" (2003) they're depicted as the common soldiers from the previous game with Frieza SPECIFICALLY ordering them to kill the Z-Fighters;[spoiler]ImageImageImage[/spoiler]
in "Dragon Ball Z: Hakanuaru Densestsu" (2007) they're depicted as Appule, Banan & Sui.[spoiler]Image ImageImage[/spoiler]
in "Dragon Ball Z - Bodukai Tenkaichi 3" (2007) they're shown to be Banan-esque Frieza Soldier & Appule; [spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfTFmZQ8CY8[/spoiler]
In one of "Dragon Ball Heroes" 2010 intros they're seen as part of the common grunts Frieza has in his ship who charges at the invading Note & Beat only to be taken out with ridiculous ease[spoiler]ImageImageImage[/spoiler], In "Dragon Ball Z - Dokkan Battle" (2015/2016) they're depicted as Sui. [spoiler]http://dbz-dokkanbattle.wikia.com/wiki/ ... biguation)[/spoiler]

TL;DR Dragon Ball Wikia calls them "Frieza's Subordinates" and while it's English site ranks their Captain as a Middle Class soldier & the others as lower class goons (but that's never stated in the official sources, just a decision by some random person who edited there. Yet in "Frieza's Elite" page there they're listed as "elite combatants" = the same tier as Vegeta, Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, Shisami & Tagoma; which makes their credibility even more funny looking); their Spanish site is contradicting it and spams bs about their ranks/power with higher numbers which they pulled out of their asses.

SO Where do you rank these soldiers?


25/01/2017 EDIT: I've decided to put all DBZ & Kai (where some coloring corrections had been done) anime materials of them here for better judgement of them:

Dragon Ball Z:
[*] The Birth of Cyborg Frieza (Dragon Ball Z - ORIGINAL Japanese dub)/The same scene of Frieza's flashback in the original Funimation DBZ dub
[*] King Cold's men vs. Future Trunks (DBZ - Funimation dub)

Dragon Ball Kai (King Cold's "Hospital" Planet scene was removed, I've began to think that maybe it was there where he brought the lackeys with the arm canons):
[*] King Cold rebuild Frieza (Funimation Dub)
[*] Frieza & Cold land on Earth + orders the soldiers to kill all Earthling they can find (Funimation Dub)
[*] Future Trunks confronts King Cold's men (Funimation Dub)

(edited A LOT here after the links got sabotaged by the forum's link+text format the day after)
Last edited by Israelite Wolfman on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:50 am, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by KND » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:49 pm

Congratulations on your research on the subject! You indeed looked at many sources looking for you answer. Nice work.

I think that the strongest one would be on par with Zarbon and Dodoria. King Cold`s unit would be probably similar to Freeza`s unit on Namek. Do you know how many soldiers Freeza had on Namek? On Namek we only see one elite soldier, Cui, so King Cold probably have only one or two elite soldier in his unit.

By the way could you elaborate more the King Cold plot in "Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoningen" ?

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by mcdjbeatz » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 am

They would be much stronger than Frieza's average soldiers as King Cold wouldn't hire weaklings, Frieza I believe did not know the full extent of Gohan and Krillin's power as he never read them with a scouter, not that would have done much for determining their true power and believed that they were more a nuisance rather than a threat like Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo and understandably would be overconfident about their ability to deal with the earth's inhabitants. If King Cold's Soldiers were really as strong as the ginyu force (excluding Guldo) or stronger I believe their power would have been built up a bit more like the way the ginyu force was built up, but then again maybe not considering how easily some of the heroes could take the ginyu force or soldiers around their tier out. One hint of their power is when Krillin refers to the soldiers as "a bunch of ki" and Trunks as a "huge ki" when the soldiers were killed and the z fighters felt it in the manga so I don't believe they are stronger than the ginyu force. I believe that King Cold's men are between Zarbon and Dodoria tier and below the ginyu force and I'm very impressed with the extent you went to to research this question, good work.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:04 am

Thank you both for the compliments about my "research" (Toei workers should be doing that :P) of this issue! :D
KND wrote:Congratulations on your research on the subject! You indeed looked at many sources looking for you answer. Nice work.

I think that the strongest one would be on par with Zarbon and Dodoria. King Cold`s unit would be probably similar to Freeza`s unit on Namek. Do you know how many soldiers Freeza had on Namek? On Namek we only see one elite soldier, Cui, so King Cold probably have only one or two elite soldier in his unit.

By the way could you elaborate more the King Cold plot in "Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoningen" ?
Frieza had taken roughly 200 soldiers to Namek (I remember a YouTube vid called "Frieza's Henchmen death montage" where the last soldiers Vegeta killed on his ship were in the 160s, while there were more that the local Namekians had taken out), the only non-Ginyu Force elites that he had were (in the ranks of their power levels): Cui (who jumped in to kill Vegeta), Dodoria & Zarbon. I'd like to believe that the mid-tier (non-blaster using) King Cold's men were at least between Cui-Zarbon tier while their elites were Ginyu Force tier if not slightly more powerful (as the Dragon Ball principle of having the next villains & minions stronger than the last ones).

About the King Cold plot in "Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoningen": I've never played that game for more than 10 minutes during my 15 years of following the franchise, due to it's messed up graphics & English, but I've used to read about it here: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/dbz3 ... gh.shtml#2 & this INCOMPLETE enemies list: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/dbz3/enemies.shtml, A better level of info about King Cold's unit in this game comes from the DB Wikia (which is not so trusty/accurate source in many cases, but that's all I've got about this):
Fisshi - Blue haired humanoid who delivers Cold the possibility of Frieza's demise.
Iru - Green eel-like alien who tried to blast Future Trunks with an arm canon.
Mei - Blue fishman (Yellow in the anime) who stands right next to the Unnamed Captain.
Eire - purple version of Iru. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
Okuto - orange version of Iru. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
Zea - pink version of Fisshi. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
Frayne - a blue armored version of Salza. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
Soy - an orange version of Dore. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
Karmath - a blue version of Neiz. Appears in Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzoingen.
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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by emperior » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:20 am

I think King Cold's men were around 10'000 at best. The Z-Fighters weren't afraid of them at all
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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:27 am

mcdjbeatz wrote:They would be much stronger than Frieza's average soldiers as King Cold wouldn't hire weaklings, Frieza I believe did not know the full extent of Gohan and Krillin's power as he never read them with a scouter, not that would have done much for determining their true power and believed that they were more a nuisance rather than a threat like Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo and understandably would be overconfident about their ability to deal with the earth's inhabitants. If King Cold's Soldiers were really as strong as the ginyu force (excluding Guldo) or stronger I believe their power would have been built up a bit more like the way the ginyu force was built up, but then again maybe not considering how easily some of the heroes could take the ginyu force or soldiers around their tier out. One hint of their power is when Krillin refers to the soldiers as "a bunch of ki" and Trunks as a "huge ki" when the soldiers were killed and the z fighters felt it in the manga so I don't believe they are stronger than the ginyu force. I believe that King Cold's men are between Zarbon and Dodoria tier and below the ginyu force and I'm very impressed with the extent you went to to research this question, good work.
Thanks for the compliments about my research on this issue! :D I usually got the comment: "3 of them (=total of 16 soldiers) had a blaster in the Dragon Ball manga [chapter 331] (while it was "only" 2 of them in the DBZ/Kai animes), so it means they were all low-level soldiers" in the Reddit community (many there think Dodoria-Zarbon tier is "exceptional" that PERHAPS only the best of these soldiers were at it, yet beneath Zarbon's 2nd form). These soldiers got easily killed by Future Trunks (an individual who should be stronger than base Goku from the battle on Namek), it's not like they were Blueberry & Raspberry or even Nappa tier to be taken down so easily by him (he didn't broke a sweat against their bosses, either).
emperior wrote:I think King Cold's men were around 10'000 at best. The Z-Fighters weren't afraid of them at all
I'd doubt that King Cold, who was the most influential, evil & secret mortal in the 7th Universe for who-knows-how-long? (decades? over a century?), would be hanging around accompanied by Frog-Face to Appule level minions or weaker selected soldiers than his son's B-team, this is an event that took place 1 year (manga) to ~2 years (DBZ) after the Ginyu Force got screwed back at Namek, it'll only be logical to bring their strongest guys left to fight the Z-Fighters (who I believe won't be even threatened by the Ginyu Force anymore, Humans included). I'd say that his 3 top guys (depicted wearing the V-Neck battle armor, like Cold himself and the Ginyu Force): Captain, Fisshi & Jeice-esque were at least in the Ginyu Force level if not stronger (even slightly, as we know that the DB franchise has a principle of advancing the plot with stronger rivals than the previous ones).

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:52 pm

They were probably in the low thousands.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:57 pm

Israelite Wolfman wrote:
Thanks for the compliments about my research on this issue! :D I usually got the comment: "3 of them (=total of 16 soldiers) had a blaster in the Dragon Ball manga [chapter 331] (while it was "only" 2 of them in the DBZ/Kai animes), so it means they were all low-level soldiers" in the Reddit community (many there think Dodoria-Zarbon tier is "exceptional" that PERHAPS only the best of these soldiers were at it, yet beneath Zarbon's 2nd form). These soldiers got easily killed by Future Trunks (an individual who should be stronger than base Goku from the battle on Namek), it's not like they were Blueberry & Raspberry or even Nappa tier to be taken down so easily by him (he didn't broke a sweat against their bosses, either).
emperior wrote:I think King Cold's men were around 10'000 at best. The Z-Fighters weren't afraid of them at all
I'd doubt that King Cold, who was the most influential, evil & secret mortal in the 7th Universe for who-knows-how-long? (decades? over a century?), would be hanging around accompanied by Frog-Face to Appule level minions or weaker selected soldiers than his son's B-team, this is an event that took place 1 year (manga) to ~2 years (DBZ) after the Ginyu Force got screwed back at Namek, it'll only be logical to bring their strongest guys left to fight the Z-Fighters (who I believe won't be even threatened by the Ginyu Force anymore, Humans included). I'd say that his 3 top guys (depicted wearing the V-Neck battle armor, like Cold himself and the Ginyu Force): Captain, Fisshi & Jeice-esque were at least in the Ginyu Force level if not stronger (even slightly, as we know that the DB franchise has a principle of advancing the plot with stronger rivals than the previous ones).
1) My comments to you over on Reddit regarding the fact that Freeza and Cold brought at least three individuals with the arm-mounted blaster was that it wouldn't make sense to bring them if their plans were to only bring elite soldiers. The fact those guys were brought indicates more likely that Freeza and Cold just grabbed a handful of men and went to Earth. If they were concerned with bringing powerful people beyond what they themselves brought to the table, they wouldn't logically make their show of force by including those that potentially can't even fly without external means.

2) Using the shape of the armor isn't really a solid way of determining strength if you ask me, otherwise why wouldn't Freeza have that V-cut as well? Additionally, if those few you suggested were to be Cold's equivalent of the Ginyu Tokusentai, then wouldn't it be reasonable for them to bear some kind of crest of his likeness like the Tokusentai had of Freeza? It's kind of a stretch to say that these must be the elite just because of their armor.

And as far as your statement that the franchise has a principle of advancing the plot with stronger rivals, that really only works if those "new" individuals are built up in some way to suggest that. Be it feats or statements, that's how that principle is propagated. With the men that Freeza and Cold brought, we don't have that kind of build up to suggest it. In fact, because of those arm-mounted blaster individuals, we have the opposite effect. With Kui, Dodoria, and Zarbon, we have them built up, through words and actions, to be rivals of Vegeta's battle power on Earth and greater, making their eventual defeat all the more impressive for Vegeta. With the Ginyu Tokusentai, we have them built up, through words and actions, to be, as a whole, stronger than the Vegeta that took out the monster-form Zarbon. With the men brought to Earth with Freeza and Cold, nothing is said that builds up any of them being remarkable power wise, and the fact that these unknown soldiers (as far as the manga and anime are concerned) include some that need artificial means to fire ki and potentially even fly, it really doesn't speak highly of their strength capacity as a whole.

I'll ask this hypothetical. Let's take those same soldiers and put them in a neutral environment. You don't know that they were brought to Earth by Freeza and Cold. You just see the soldiers as they are with the names given to them in the manga and anime (i.e. nothing). Would you believe that they were elite soldiers or the best of the best, even above the Ginyu Tokusentai? Likely not. Instead, you'd probably just see them as nameless grunt soldiers. And that's where my stance on them is. Nothing about them conveys or suggests t hem being anything beyond grunt soldier-status, which is why I don't think they had battle powers of any significant level.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:40 pm

Darkprince410 wrote: 1) My comments to you over on Reddit regarding the fact that Freeza and Cold brought at least three individuals with the arm-mounted blaster was that it wouldn't make sense to bring them if their plans were to only bring elite soldiers. The fact those guys were brought indicates more likely that Freeza and Cold just grabbed a handful of men and went to Earth. If they were concerned with bringing powerful people beyond what they themselves brought to the table, they wouldn't logically make their show of force by including those that potentially can't even fly without external means.

2) Using the shape of the armor isn't really a solid way of determining strength if you ask me, otherwise why wouldn't Freeza have that V-cut as well? Additionally, if those few you suggested were to be Cold's equivalent of the Ginyu Tokusentai, then wouldn't it be reasonable for them to bear some kind of crest of his likeness like the Tokusentai had of Freeza? It's kind of a stretch to say that these must be the elite just because of their armor.

And as far as your statement that the franchise has a principle of advancing the plot with stronger rivals, that really only works if those "new" individuals are built up in some way to suggest that. Be it feats or statements, that's how that principle is propagated. With the men that Freeza and Cold brought, we don't have that kind of build up to suggest it. In fact, because of those arm-mounted blaster individuals, we have the opposite effect. With Kui, Dodoria, and Zarbon, we have them built up, through words and actions, to be rivals of Vegeta's battle power on Earth and greater, making their eventual defeat all the more impressive for Vegeta. With the Ginyu Tokusentai, we have them built up, through words and actions, to be, as a whole, stronger than the Vegeta that took out the monster-form Zarbon. With the men brought to Earth with Freeza and Cold, nothing is said that builds up any of them being remarkable power wise, and the fact that these unknown soldiers (as far as the manga and anime are concerned) include some that need artificial means to fire ki and potentially even fly, it really doesn't speak highly of their strength capacity as a whole.

I'll ask this hypothetical. Let's take those same soldiers and put them in a neutral environment. You don't know that they were brought to Earth by Freeza and Cold. You just see the soldiers as they are with the names given to them in the manga and anime (i.e. nothing). Would you believe that they were elite soldiers or the best of the best, even above the Ginyu Tokusentai? Likely not. Instead, you'd probably just see them as nameless grunt soldiers. And that's where my stance on them is. Nothing about them conveys or suggests t hem being anything beyond grunt soldier-status, which is why I don't think they had battle powers of any significant level.
1. I had a feeling I'll ran into you here as well, since you quoted the Kanzenshuu's Daizenshuu section about arm canons; for the record: Akira Toriyama didn't wrote that info or even had it in mind (at least not that shaped opinion about the ability of such device to provide flight as well) when drawing this saga in his manga back at 1992. In-universe speaking: these were the same men (at least most of them according to DBZ episode 120) King Cold had with him in his ship while looking after Frieza's remains in Planet Namek's debris, they weren't just some goofy soldiers they've brought along to Earth but (most were **, these with the canons aren't depicted in the scene listed above**) King Cold's personal unit who works with him in the shadows.

2. Akira Toriyama stated in an interview once (just before RoF) that he wanted battle armors to reflect the rank of Frieza Army's soldiers, that's why he came along the concept of the newest model of the battle armor (Sorbet, Tagoma & Shisami wore), to distinguish between them (elites) and (their) lower level soldiers. The Ginyu Force (I never liked people who aren't Japanese to try and force it into English, ask geekdom101, he got this comment from me as well) & Cooler's Armored Squadron (in that wider context, even if not considered canon) had logos on their armors cuz they were flamboyant groups, it worked well with their showing-off & over self esteem. Abo and Kado (who are canon) were the same tier/rank as the Ginyu Force but had no crest, does it makes them less-powerful or lower in rank? Nope. I should also bring into account the Frieza Mercenaries from Resurrection 'F', who were hired to serve as elites & were given this newest battle armor to set them apart from the rest of the grunts in the assault on Earth. These mercenaries were stated in Volume 'F' to "be/prove troublesome" for the much stronger than Namek Saga Z-Fighters, yet they had no names nor backstory.

To sum it all up: there was no need to give them a build up in the story or names as they were intended to serve a secondary plot element (the 1st pic on the OP is from a dramatic scene that gives them some more fearsome/serious tone than just "unnamed mooks"), Toriyama had no need to explain about them in that short Future Trunks Saga (2 manga chapters) before moving to the Androids (an idea his editor suggested for a greater next foes) and planned to only use them as the first kills by Trunks to "surprise" Mecha-Frieza & Cold - whose sole purpose in that invasion was to serve as in-between story before the next villains whom Trunks came to give a warning about.

I came over here looking for different views than those on Reddit. Despite the fact some of the users in this site are the same people from there.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:31 am

1. I had a feeling I'll ran into you here as well, since you quoted the Kanzenshuu's Daizenshuu section about arm canons; for the record: Akira Toriyama didn't wrote that info or even had it in mind (at least not that shaped opinion about the ability of such device to provide flight as well) when drawing this saga in his manga back at 1992. In-universe speaking: these were the same men (at least most of them according to DBZ episode 120) King Cold had with him in his ship while looking after Frieza's remains in Planet Namek's debris, they weren't just some goofy soldiers they've brought along to Earth but (most were **, these with the canons aren't depicted in the scene listed above**) King Cold's personal unit who works with him in the shadows.
Recall that virtually everything you're using in that regard is anime filler. Manga wise, we see nothing of those events, so for all we know Cold found him alone or there was some scout ship unrelated to Cold's ship that found him. Additionally, because of this, it's readily possible for every single member to be of Freeza's men, and not any of Cold's "elite" (which, we don't even know necessarily exist). If you're going to dismiss the Daizenshuu's information, then you should dismiss the anime filler for the same reason, as Toriyama didn't write that info or have any of it in mind.
2. Akira Toriyama stated in an interview once (just before RoF) that he wanted battle armors to reflect the rank of Frieza Army's soldiers, that's why he came along the concept of the newest model of the battle armor (Sorbet, Tagoma & Shisami wore), to distinguish between them (elites) and (their) lower level soldiers. The Ginyu Force (I never liked people who aren't Japanese to try and force it into English, ask geekdom101, he got this comment from me as well) & Cooler's Armored Squadron (in that wider context, even if not considered canon) had logos on their armors cuz they were flamboyant groups, it worked well with their showing-off & over self esteem. Abo and Kado (who are canon) were the same tier/rank as the Ginyu Force but had no crest, does it makes them less-powerful or lower in rank? Nope. I should also bring into account the Frieza Mercenaries from Resurrection 'F', who were hired to serve as elites & were given this newest battle armor to set them apart from the rest of the grunts in the assault on Earth. These mercenaries were stated in Volume 'F' to "be/prove troublesome" for the much stronger than Namek Saga Z-Fighters, yet they had no names nor backstory.
I'm not aware of any such interview that he said that in regard to. If you could link it or provide a source, I'm very curious about this. To counter your argument, ignoring that Abo and Cado are of questionable canonicity (due to the reference to Tarble was removed in Super), wouldn't the fact that they're using the old, tight around the neck, discredit that battle armor reflected rank/status? They were equal in strength to the Ginyu Tokusentai for as long as Vegeta was aware of them, yet their armor style (including the neck) was far closer to Dodoria's and other "sub Ginyu" ranked soldiers, and not the V-neck armor that you say denotes individuals of high rank.

The only individuals that gave them any trouble whatsoever were all given names. None of the others were notable in any sense, and Freeza even established that everyone else was track and second rate, even in comparison to the ones that he brought to Namek.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Gog » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:03 am

Nothing special, just regular foot solders taken along by King Cold and Freeza

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:30 am

Darkprince410 wrote:2) Using the shape of the armor isn't really a solid way of determining strength if you ask me, otherwise why wouldn't Freeza have that V-cut as well?
Allow me to answer this as a cartoonist & a long time fan: there was no alteration of the battle armor's neck shape since the arrival of Raditz till the introduction of the Ginyu Force, since Frieza was designed back in that time slot (1989-1990), before the modification of the V-Neck took place with the creation of the Ginyus, there was no way Akira Toriyama could have brought this up prior. I'll assume that Frieza's design was grasped as "perfect" so it wasn't altered either in Resurrection 'F', as they could gave him the newest battle armor model, but preferred to use the known old model associated with him.
Darkprince410 wrote: Recall that virtually everything you're using in that regard is anime filler. Manga wise, we see nothing of those events, so for all we know Cold found him alone or there was some scout ship unrelated to Cold's ship that found him. Additionally, because of this, it's readily possible for every single member to be of Freeza's men, and not any of Cold's "elite" (which, we don't even know necessarily exist). If you're going to dismiss the Daizenshuu's information, then you should dismiss the anime filler for the same reason, as Toriyama didn't write that info or have any of it in mind.

I'm not aware of any such interview that he said that in regard to. If you could link it or provide a source, I'm very curious about this. To counter your argument, ignoring that Abo and Cado are of questionable canonicity (due to the reference to Tarble was removed in Super), wouldn't the fact that they're using the old, tight around the neck, discredit that battle armor reflected rank/status? They were equal in strength to the Ginyu Tokusentai for as long as Vegeta was aware of them, yet their armor style (including the neck) was far closer to Dodoria's and other "sub Ginyu" ranked soldiers, and not the V-neck armor that you say denotes individuals of high rank.

The only individuals that gave them any trouble whatsoever were all given names. None of the others were notable in any sense, and Freeza even established that everyone else was track and second rate, even in comparison to the ones that he brought to Namek.
If that's your attitude then maybe you shouldn't watch the anime adaptions of the franchise as you seem to take the short-view approach of deciding that only one thing you like (manga) is canon, and the other OFFICIAL adaptations are just "filler materials". It's a shame because the animators are the ones who made the franchise what it is. Toriyama may have created it, but it wasn't his work alone that made it so loveable by fans all around the world (I'll assume more DB fans have watched the animated shows than read the manga). Now about the link: it was posted in a Dragon Ball Wikia blog post about Volume 'F' back when they made the article about it (before RoF went out in Japan back in 2015), I couldn't find it so I guess it may have been deleted. Abo & Cado's canonity in Super is still questionable cuz they can refer to the OVA in one way or another (retelling, mentioning or flashback) in the future (till there is no confirmation of it, it's still canon). The Toyotoro manga adaption of RoF seems to be more consistent with Volume 'F' about these mercenaries, who were 28 in number, and were allegedly the reason why the Z-Fighters needed to take a Senzu bean afterwards (doesn't seems likely for the Dragon Team to be injured by lackeys who weren't even as strong as the goons they had taken out on Namek with much ease and lower power levels). Again: This topic is not intended to go into questions that aren't related to these King Cold soldiers, I've heard your thoughts in 2 different forums (here & Reddit), I was impressed by your knowledge and dedication to answer yet I don't want to be impolite and I'd like others to speak out as well. Thanks for your answers here & there. :)

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by TheZFighter » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:53 pm

Read through all of this as per your request. I am impressed by all the in-depth research you have done on this topic. However...

I have to say I agree with those who have said that these soldiers were probably ranked around the low thousands, 10,000 at best. I see nothing to suggest that any of King Cold's soldiers were "elite" or anything special, or that King Cold wouldn't have "weaklings" in his unit.

Now, I know this isn't an exact rule of thumb, but I notice that when there has been a "stronger" and/ or more notable members of the Planet Trade Organisation, they tend to be hightlighted in some way. They tend to play a more prominent role, we know a little bit more about them, they have a name in the Manga, etc. Examples of this include Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui, Captain Ginyu, Jeice, Burter, Recoome, Guldo, Salza, Dore, Sorbet, Tagoma, Shisami, etc. Again, I know this isn't an exact rule of thumb to go by, but one of the things I've always noticed about this organisation is how impressive their numbers are, though a huge majority of them are weak, nameless, instantly forgettable fodder. I have always assumed that King Cold's unit fall into this category.

Still though, I'm impressed by your research and look forward to reading more of your topics.
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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:15 am

Image
I still think they look stronger than the common Frieza Army fodder (bulk/design-wise). Regardless of the fact all here have V-shaped neck area in their battle armors.


It's still nice to know that despite these soldiers left little to no record in people's memory, their unit's Captain was used as the model/inspiration for these Frieza Army soldiers in Dragon Ball Online: Image

Image notice the pink soldier on the right.

Resurrection 'F' cameos? 23 years after their demise by Future Trunks, King Cold's Soldiers makes their unique form of cameos: Iru's race soldiers & a few other soldiers who looks like other King Cold's Soldiers made their way to Toyotoro's manga version of Resurrection 'F', Toyotaro once drew a Dragon Ball AF manga (under the nickname "Toyable": https://www.facebook.com/pg/Dragonball- ... 4646963846) back in the late 1990s-early 2000s using King Cold's Soldiers as bg characters, maybe he remembered them/took liking to them that made him re-draw these henchmen many years later (2015). Fisshi (the blue haired humanoid who tells King Cold it's possible Frieza died due to Planet Namek's explosion) has many look alikes in the animated movie, the piranha-looking soldier also have a doppelganger in that same film.

Image Fisshi look alike among Sorbet's elites (next to Tagoma)
Image same soldier in a close-up

Image A Frieza Soldier (one of the first to get out the spaceship) with the same haircut as the Captain of Cold's unit

Image Soldier who resembles Iru/Cold's pilot about to charge at the Z-Fighters in the movie

Image a soldier with arm canon that resembles Iru

Image Frieza soldier from the movie that resembles King Cold's piranha-like soldier charges at Gohan

Image 3 soldiers from the left in the front line who resembles King Cold's soldiers in races circles Jaco who takes them with his ray gun (RoF manga chapter 3)

Image 2 Iru's race soldiers (top right corner) chase Jaco in the movie

Image Fisshi-esque in the movie
Image Fisshi-esque attacks Krillin in the movie

Image Jaco vs. a Fisshi-esque in the manga

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by flashback0180 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:43 pm

Majority were weaker than nappa, so anywhere from 1500-5000 at most.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:48 am

TheZFighter wrote:Now, I know this isn't an exact rule of thumb, but I notice that when there has been a "stronger" and/ or more notable members of the Planet Trade Organisation, they tend to be hightlighted in some way. They tend to play a more prominent role, we know a little bit more about them, they have a name in the Manga, etc. Examples of this include Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui, Captain Ginyu, Jeice, Burter, Recoome, Guldo, Salza, Dore, Sorbet, Tagoma, Shisami, etc. Again, I know this isn't an exact rule of thumb to go by, but one of the things I've always noticed about this organisation is how impressive their numbers are, though a huge majority of them are weak, nameless, instantly forgettable fodder. I have always assumed that King Cold's unit fall into this category.
Image
This Recoome-looking blonde guy is a mercenary hired by Frieza for his RoF attack on Earth, according to Volume 'F' he should be much stronger than the average Frieza Soldier yet he lacks a background story or a name, even Namole & Orlen got a name despite being low-level soldiers/DBZ filler characters YET out of Sorbet's 5 elite soldiers forum we only know Tagoma & Shisami's names, despite their alleged "build up" between the lines of being stronger than the rest of the Frieza Army at their time, even the frog soldier who gets respected screentime in both film&anime is only referred to as "Subordinate" in the movie's credit (if the Dragon Ball Wikia got it right with that info, that could be even the last talking defeated Frieza Soldier on Earth, if you ask me till there is no confirmation from Toei he stays "unnamed").
Image
Image

So I don't think King Cold's men should have gotten a name or more lines in order to be strong soldiers. as they were simply a minor plot element in this story of Frieza & his father's demise on Earth (Toriyama's original killing of the tyrant's character once and for all + introduction of Vegeta & Bulma's future son and the danger of the Androids).

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by TheZFighter » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:50 pm

Namole and Orlen weren't named in the Manga though, which was kind-of my point.

Like I said, it isn't an exact rule of them, but when a character is powerful we tend to know about it.
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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:11 pm

I've found they've also appeared in the intro of Xenoverse 2: Image looking like some of Frieza's RoF movie soldiers.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by rereboy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:07 pm

You seem to have done pretty extensive research.

I would say that their power should be pretty variable. Most of them shouldn't be much different from the level of the soldiers that Freeza had on Namek. However, it does make sense for some of them to be significantly high level and comparable to the Ginyu squad or Cooler's elite soldiers.

Unfortunately, Trunks was so strong that it didn't make a difference to him and we didn't get to see which of the soldiers were stronger.

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Re: What rank do you think King Cold's soldiers were at?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:48 am

UPDATE: I've posted all the videos containing these soldiers from the DBZ & Kai animes in the bottom of the original post .

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