Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

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Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Gog » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:47 am

Sometime ago, a person on another thread told me that Yamcha didn't actually cheat on Bulma. Is he right? Would like this to actually be cleared up.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:28 am

Dragon Ball Chapter 335 wrote:Goku: "I always thought she'd end up with Yamcha, but... Vegeta of all people...?"
Future Trunks: "Yamcha was... um, not always faithful. She got fed up and broke up with him for good."
TV Anime Guide: Dragon Ball Tenka’ichi Densetsu wrote:Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?
That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; Yamcha’s a cheater.” (laughs)
In the end, we only have Future Trunks' word in-universe with Toriyama confirming the story outside of the text. It does seem strange what with Bluma attaching herself to other individuals during her relationship with Yamcha. I can only assume Yamcha cheated once (perhaps with one of his groupies) & that was enough in comparison to Bluma's unacknowledged attempts.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Gog » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:48 am

Nejishiki wrote:
Dragon Ball Chapter 335 wrote:Goku: "I always thought she'd end up with Yamcha, but... Vegeta of all people...?"
Future Trunks: "Yamcha was... um, not always faithful. She got fed up and broke up with him for good."
TV Anime Guide: Dragon Ball Tenka’ichi Densetsu wrote:Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?
That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; Yamcha’s a cheater.” (laughs)
In the end, we only have Future Trunks' word in-universe with Toriyama confirming the story outside of the text. It does seem strange what with Bluma attaching herself to other individuals during her relationship with Yamcha. I can only assume Yamcha cheated once (perhaps with one of his groupies) & that was enough in comparison to Bluma's unacknowledged attempts.
I need to bring this to another thread, for proof. Thanks for clearing that up :D

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:09 am

You got your answer, but I will give my confirmation as well..
Yes, toriyama did say he cheated on bulma
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by DragonBallLove » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:10 am

But now Yamcha won't cheat on Bulma, marry her, and become DA STRONGAST IN the UNIVAAAARS.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:18 am

It's also likely Yamcha cheated on Bulma during the 5 years between the 23rd TB and Goku's reunion at Kame House. Bulma mentioned that Yamcha did something terrible, and she gave him the boot. (Chapter 196, p. 4)
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:27 am

LuckyCat wrote:It's also likely Yamcha cheated on Bulma during the 5 years between the 23rd TB and Goku's reunion at Kame House. Bulma mentioned that Yamcha did something terrible, and she gave him the boot. (Chapter 196, p. 4)
She never gave a reason why she mad at him and Muten Roshi's comment implies it's over something petty.

Anyways, I rather not answer this because Yamcha cheating is such an OOC thing for him to do and Bulma is really in no position to claim anyone as a cheater when she's ready to drop Yamcha like a bad habit for any hot piece of ass.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:33 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Yamcha cheating is such an OOC thing for him to do
Are you sure? We have a few lines from the author above stating that Yamcha cheating is in character. Just because you like Yamcha's other qualities, doesn't mean he can't cheat on Bulma.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:28 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Yamcha cheating is such an OOC thing for him to do
Are you sure? We have a few lines from the author above stating that Yamcha cheating is in character..
Doesn't make it in character though. Yamcha was dead-set on settling down and getting married so suddenly being a playboy just doesn't make sense.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:56 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Doesn't make it in character though. Yamcha was dead-set on settling down and getting married so suddenly being a playboy just doesn't make sense.
And Bulma just wanted a boyfriend so her dumping Yamcha makes "no sense", but characters change as the story progresses. Yamcha's originally a bandit, after all.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:05 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Yamcha cheating is such an OOC thing for him to do
Are you sure? We have a few lines from the author above stating that Yamcha cheating is in character. Just because you like Yamcha's other qualities, doesn't mean he can't cheat on Bulma.
Toriyama never really fledged out Yamcha's personality as thoroughly as some of the other characters, or thoroughly at all for that matter. I don't want to be one of those guys who says that Toriyama doesn't know anything about his own series, but I can't think of any actions from Yamcha that would indicate him to be adulterous, or even interested in other women at all, while I can think of several that imply him to be noble and faithful. Granted, most of Yamcha's character is from filler... but that just means Toriyama has even less of an idea on what this guy is like.

Just from Toriyama's own story, Yamcha's whole dream was to get married (as opposed to Bulma's dream for a boy-toy)
And when he was told that Trunks was Bulma's child, assuming that he must be the father, Yamcha proposed that they settle down (which Bulma reacted to negatively).

Yamcha has always been a devoted martial artist, his secondary dream was to win the world tournament and become the best martial artist in the world. He'd be too busy training to ever cheat. Even if he doesn't train constantly like a certain monkey tailed boy was known to do, honorable martial artists just aren't the cheating type.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:18 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Yamcha has always been a devoted martial artist
Well no, he was a bandit. He was a bad guy who stole things from others. And whatever the anime filler says, there's ample evidence in the manga that Yamcha and Bulma did not get along after the first arc.

Dragon Ball isn't mainly about romantic relationships, so there's no reason why Toriyama would need to flush out Yamcha and Bulma's relationship. Still, we have direct manga dialog that says "Yamcha did a terrible thing to Bulma" and "Yamcha was not always faithful". Maybe it was actually all Bulma's fault or something, but at least try to come up with an explanation that fits this dialog.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:44 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:Yamcha has always been a devoted martial artist
Well no, he was a bandit. He was a bad guy who stole things from others. And whatever the anime filler says, there's ample evidence in the manga that Yamcha and Bulma did not get along after the first arc.

Dragon Ball isn't mainly about romantic relationships, so there's no reason why Toriyama would need to flush out Yamcha and Bulma's relationship. Still, we have direct manga dialog that says "Yamcha did a terrible thing to Bulma" and "Yamcha was not always faithful". Maybe it was actually all Bulma's fault or something, but at least try to come up with an explanation that fits this dialog.
Being a bandit does not preclude Yamcha from being a martial artist. He obviously was a martial artist. Not just any martial artist, but a highly practiced and devoted one.

He was the first person who could go toe to toe with Goku.
He recognized the legendary Gohan by name and relished the chance to fight his pupil just for the sport.
He was a master of the powerful Wolf Fang Fist.

In fact, being a bandit actually depends on the fact that he was already a martial artist. That's how he was so successful and became so fearsome that even Oolong knew of his reputation. He was simply of the dishonorable martial artist trope initially, but a martial artist nonetheless. Then he very quickly transformed into one of the honorable martial artists anyway. How on earth can you read "Yamcha was a martial artist" and reply "Well, no."??

Yeah, Bulma and Yamcha didn't get along well in the manga. Every instance of this being brought up was a joke at Bulma's expense, implying she was a jealous and petty biotch. I never said they didn't have relationship problems. I said that the idea that Yamcha was the cheater is out of character given all of his actions.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Big Green The Yoshi » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:53 pm

This is out of character, but I actually have to admire Yamcha taking it like a man when the Z Fighters meet to face the Cyborgs I guess. I mean Vegeta was regarded by everyone to be a sociopath too, so this was pretty admirable.

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:03 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Yeah, Bulma and Yamcha didn't get along well in the manga. Every instance of this being brought up was a joke at Bulma's expense, implying she was a jealous and petty biotch. I never said they didn't have relationship problems. I said that the idea that Yamcha was the cheater is out of character given all of his actions.
Again, you're ignoring Yamcha's unfaithful actions written into the manga just because they came at a later time. This would be like me saying Vegeta settling down on Earth is totally out of character because he's a bloodthirsty warrior who's primarily interested in Earth as part of his quest for universal domination.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Sigh. This is a thread where the creator is asking for a solid factual statement on the issue, which has already been answered, not speculation on whether or not such authorial facts make sense. And I've participated in a good share of such threads in the past, which is why I almost never get involved in them anymore. So forgive me, but it's been long enough that I just have to throw in my piece one more time, regardless.

Yes, the manga states it. Yes, Toriyama said as much to Furuya about it (albeit in a "Come onnnn, roll with me here, bro!" kind of way). So it is difficult to deny that it is the official word on the matter. However, it is character assassination, plain and simple, and I say that without even the slightest molecule of hyperbole. And I don't say that because I am fond of the character. I am fond of the character, it is true, but I don't look at him through rose-tinted glasses either. There's a reason the phrase "Poor dolt!" in reference to him has become the longest-running catch phrase on my show. The guy has a terrible string of bad luck and poor decisions, despite being introduced, in my opinion, as one of the smartest, craftiest, and most loyal characters in the series, albeit a buffoonish one (and admittedly the bar isn't terribly high in the first arc). The guy had a lot of potential, potential that Toriyama squandered in favor of making him the Worf of the series before Worf was even a thing. And as has already been stated, he lacked proper development. Even in the Adventure Special, which gives facts on even the most minor of characters, Yamucha's bio is a ghost town.

What we do know about him is that he is a romantic. It's his defining character trait in the first arc, one that creates the comedy: he is a ruthless and powerful bandit, but he is vain and desires love more than anything else. Blooma is depicted as domineering, flighty, lustful, and yet prone to irrational bouts of jealousy. Those are elements that are all present in the manga. We only see two fights between them depicted, neither of which Yamucha is present for. Whenever we see them together, they appear to get along just fine. But when they do fight, Blooma's is the only side of the story we get. And yet in both of those instances, the characters around her treat her as if she's overreacting. That's the whole joke! Her mother explicitly tells Goku as much. There is absolutely nothing in either of those encounters, when taken only with the appropriate context of the time, that suggests that Yamucha has actually cheated on her. In fact, him cheating on her is never mentioned or even suggested in those situations, not even by Blooma! In the Saiyan arc, no details are given, and in the RRA, it's made explicit that she's jealous of the attention he is receiving, not that he has actually done anything.

After all, if those scenes exist to present Yamucha as a cheater, then what's the joke? Sure, they serve as "hints" as to the reveal for later on, but in their own context, what purpose do they serve the here and now? Because if you look at those scenes with that new context, they come across as really, really sad. Here is Blooma, bringing her relationship woes to her closest friends, to even her parents... and nobody believes her! They just believe her cheating boyfriend and tell her to get over it. Do you really think that's the kind of thing Toriyama of all people would write?

The fact of the matter is, people look at those scenes with the future knowledge already in mind, so when they retroactively apply it to those scenes, it's easy to go, "Hey, that makes perfect sense!" It's like in Star Wars when Owen expresses concern that Luke has "too much of his father in him." It's so cool, right, because after you watch The Empire Strikes Back, it's obvious why Uncle Owen would be concerned about that: because Luke's father is Darth Vader! It's, like, foreshadowing and stuff! Except that it's not because George Lucas hadn't come up with that plot point yet. Owen's line, in its original context, is a fear that Luke will run off on some adventure and get himself killed just like his father instead of staying and tending to his responsibilities. That the line fits so easily into a new context is a wonderfully serendipitous bit of writing and makes it easy to confirm one's own biases about the nature of that creative process, that was not its original meaning. And I feel these scenes with Blooma fit the bill in exactly the same way.

Yes, characters can change. Characters should change. And I'd go so far as to say turning expectations on their heads and making it so that, after all these years, that the seemingly faithful Yamucha was really a playboy, and that Blooma's ignored protestations were actually true would make a great story. But they're not treated that way. The big shock is that Blooma ended up with Vegeta. The statement that Yamucha cheated on her is met with a shrug. And that's because it only exists to justify the BlooXgeta relationship (And, yes, I just made that shipping name up. It rolls off the tongue much more easily than VegeXBul). Character development is one thing. Shocking twists are one thing. Pulling out something completely contrary to how a character has been established? That's a very difficult pill to swallow. It would be as if in the next episode of Super, Goku reveals he's been acing Calculus exams for the past few years. I mean, I guess there's nothing that explicitly contradicts him being able to do this. Sure he sucked at math as a kid, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have grown past that. It would certainly be an unexpected shake up to the status quo that Goku is not as book dumb as we've been led to believe all these decades. But wouldn't it seem just a little bit off? Especially if none of the characters acted like anything is amiss and just accepted it like it was the most natural extension of his character? And then guidebooks start coming out, all of which make little asides at what a math whiz Goku's always been? I just don't think people would be very quick to accept that. Because it's just not in his character as has been established.

So, yes, it's character assassination because Kuririn had already been rewritten as the hopeless romantic, Trunks needed a justification to exist, and Yamucha having been out of the limelight for all of the Freeza Arc made him an expendable target to dump on. But the Cell Arc is no stranger to characters doing really stupid things. Ironically, given the subject matter, Vegeta comes close to rivaling Yamucha in this arc as character assassination victim, but that's a story for another day...
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by The gr » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Sigh. This is a thread where the creator is asking for a solid factual statement on the issue, which has already been answered, not speculation on whether or not such authorial facts make sense. And I've participated in a good share of such threads in the past, which is why I almost never get involved in them anymore. So forgive me, but it's been long enough that I just have to throw in my piece one more time, regardless.

Yes, the manga states it. Yes, Toriyama said as much to Furuya about it (albeit in a "Come onnnn, roll with me here, bro!" kind of way). So it is difficult to deny that it is the official word on the matter. However, it is character assassination, plain and simple, and I say that without even the slightest molecule of hyperbole. And I don't say that because I am fond of the character. I am fond of the character, it is true, but I don't look at him through rose-tinted glasses either. There's a reason the phrase "Poor dolt!" in reference to him has become the longest-running catch phrase on my show. The guy has a terrible string of bad luck and poor decisions, despite being introduced, in my opinion, as one of the smartest, craftiest, and most loyal characters in the series, albeit a buffoonish one (and admittedly the bar isn't terribly high in the first arc). The guy had a lot of potential, potential that Toriyama squandered in favor of making him the Worf of the series before Worf was even a thing. And as has already been stated, he lacked proper development. Even in the Adventure Special, which gives facts on even the most minor of characters, Yamucha's bio is a ghost town.

What we do know about him is that he is a romantic. It's his defining character trait in the first arc, one that creates the comedy: he is a ruthless and powerful bandit, but he is vain and desires love more than anything else. Blooma is depicted as domineering, flighty, lustful, and yet prone to irrational bouts of jealousy. Those are elements that are all present in the manga. We only see two fights between them depicted, neither of which Yamucha is present for. Whenever we see them together, they appear to get along just fine. But when they do fight, Blooma's is the only side of the story we get. And yet in both of those instances, the characters around her treat her as if she's overreacting. That's the whole joke! Her mother explicitly tells Goku as much. There is absolutely nothing in either of those encounters, when taken only with the appropriate context of the time, that suggests that Yamucha has actually cheated on her. In fact, him cheating on her is never mentioned or even suggested in those situations, not even by Blooma! In the Saiyan arc, no details are given, and in the RRA, it's made explicit that she's jealous of the attention he is receiving, not that he has actually done anything.

After all, if those scenes exist to present Yamucha as a cheater, then what's the joke? Sure, they serve as "hints" as to the reveal for later on, but in their own context, what purpose do they serve the here and now? Because if you look at those scenes with that new context, they come across as really, really sad. Here is Blooma, bringing her relationship woes to her closest friends, to even her parents... and nobody believes her! They just believe her cheating boyfriend and tell her to get over it. Do you really think that's the kind of thing Toriyama of all people would write?

The fact of the matter is, people look at those scenes with the future knowledge already in mind, so when they retroactively apply it to those scenes, it's easy to go, "Hey, that makes perfect sense!" It's like in Star Wars when Owen expresses concern that Luke has "too much of his father in him." It's so cool, right, because after you watch The Empire Strikes Back, it's obvious why Uncle Owen would be concerned about that: because Luke's father is Darth Vader! It's, like, foreshadowing and stuff! Except that it's not because George Lucas hadn't come up with that plot point yet. Owen's line, in its original context, is a fear that Luke will run off on some adventure and get himself killed just like his father instead of staying and tending to his responsibilities. That the line fits so easily into a new context is a wonderfully serendipitous bit of writing and makes it easy to confirm one's own biases about the nature of that creative process, that was not its original meaning. And I feel these scenes with Blooma fit the bill in exactly the same way.

Yes, characters can change. Characters should change. And I'd go so far as to say turning expectations on their heads and making it so that, after all these years, that the seemingly faithful Yamucha was really a playboy, and that Blooma's ignored protestations were actually true would make a great story. But they're not treated that way. The big shock is that Blooma ended up with Vegeta. The statement that Yamucha cheated on her is met with a shrug. And that's because it only exists to justify the BlooXgeta relationship (And, yes, I just made that shipping name up. It rolls off the tongue much more easily than VegeXBul). Character development is one thing. Shocking twists are one thing. Pulling out something completely contrary to how a character has been established? That's a very difficult pill to swallow. It would be as if in the next episode of Super, Goku reveals he's been acing Calculus exams for the past few years. I mean, I guess there's nothing that explicitly contradicts him being able to do this. Sure he sucked at math as a kid, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have grown past that. It would certainly be an unexpected shake up to the status quo that Goku is not as book dumb as we've been led to believe all these decades. But wouldn't it seem just a little bit off? Especially if none of the characters acted like anything is amiss and just accepted it like it was the most natural extension of his character? And then guidebooks start coming out, all of which make little asides at what a math whiz Goku's always been? I just don't think people would be very quick to accept that. Because it's just not in his character as has been established.

So, yes, it's character assassination because Kuririn had already been rewritten as the hopeless romantic, Trunks needed a justification to exist, and Yamucha having been out of the limelight for all of the Freeza Arc made him an expendable target to dump on. But the Cell Arc is no stranger to characters doing really stupid things. Ironically, given the subject matter, Vegeta comes close to rivaling Yamucha in this arc as character assassination victim, but that's a story for another day...
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:07 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Yes, the manga states it. Yes, Toriyama said as much to Furuya about it (albeit in a "Come onnnn, roll with me here, bro!" kind of way). So it is difficult to deny that it is the official word on the matter. However, it is character assassination, plain and simple, and I say that without even the slightest molecule of hyperbole. And I don't say that because I am fond of the character. I am fond of the character, it is true, but I don't look at him through rose-tinted glasses either.
It doesn't have to be character assassination, though. What if Yamcha cheated because he was in an unhealthy relationship, and he thought acting out was the only way to get the domineering Bulma's attention? What I dislike is the notion that Yamcha cheating on Bulma totally destroys any contributions he has to the story. I mean, I don't think Captain Kirk could maintain a monogamous relationship to save his life, but he's still Star Trek's original protagonist. Kirk's a lovable rogue. You can have a character with flaws, without the flaws overtaking or ruining the character.
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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by precita » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Why is this a surprise? Bulma also flirted with characters like General Blue and Zarbon and thought of Goku romantically when she was still Yamcha's girlfriend at the time. Is it a surprise Yamcha would do the same?

I swear, some of you are in the, "Yamcha is a loser and Bulma was the only girl who liked him" meme. Yamcha probably had plenty of girlfriends over the years and one-night stands. Why do you think he bought that yellow suit he wore in the Buu saga?

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Re: Did Yamcha cheat on Bulma?

Post by Saturnine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:26 pm

Have the wealthiest woman in the world as a girlfriend, one also considered very attractive.

Cheat on her.

And people say Yamcha's a loser. He was such a winner that he deemed it acceptable to cheat on Bulma. It's pretty amazing in all honesty.

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