LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

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Majin Jator
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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Majin Jator » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:08 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Xeztin wrote:If Broly ends up being mentioned that would be crazy!
That's my prediction, that Broly gets canonized the same way that Tarble did.
No offense, but I don't understand why you keep comparing those two, when their cases are very different. First, IIRC, Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! was scripted by Toriyama - unlike the previous movies- so it makes sense that the author references him in the following movie.
But that's irrelevant, because so far we can't assure if Tarble is canon or not. The only things about the movies that are cannon are those that were retold in Super. That's it.


BTW, I can understand why fans of the character would want to see him in Super, but the way you are suggesting would be lame. "Yeah, now I remember we fought several times the legendary super saiyam, even if we never again mentioned him, and he didn't even appear in that magical forest with Krillin".
If Broly ever appears in Super (and considering how into fan service is the show..who knows?), it should be as their first encounter, without canonizing his movies.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:29 pm

I have no idea what they are going to do, but it shouldn't surprise anyone if they did do it. Some people are assuming Toriyama was even the one who suggested bringing LSSJ into Super. Who know how much say Toei has in little details like off hand comments canonizing their movie money pot. It's not like they don't have a financial incentive to do something like that.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Gog » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:11 pm

No it isn't in concept it sounds really, really good, and has the potential to be one of the greatest things in this franchise. Unfortunately the execution of the idea is laughably bad, so much so that it completely destroyed Broly's reputation as of a whole. Honestly its all in the execution, when evil Goku is considered to be arguably the greatest villain in the franchise.

It proves that execution is the real deciding factor.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:07 am

How is a thing that is not in and of itself a work of literature a literary masterpiece?

Going further, if you consider Dragon Ball Z Movie 8 to be a "literary masterpiece," you really, really, really need to get out more. That's just sad.
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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Doctor. » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:19 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:How is a thing that is not in and of itself a work of literature a literary masterpiece?

Going further, if you consider Dragon Ball Z Movie 8 to be a "literary masterpiece," you really, really, really need to get out more. That's just sad.
What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by ProjectAlpha22 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:35 am

Doctor. wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:How is a thing that is not in and of itself a work of literature a literary masterpiece?

Going further, if you consider Dragon Ball Z Movie 8 to be a "literary masterpiece," you really, really, really need to get out more. That's just sad.
What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.
Dude, my favorite line of prose:
"KAKAROT. KAKAROTTTTTTT. KAKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOT."-Broly
Move aside The Oddessy and Dante's Inferno, we have a new classic.
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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Gog » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:42 am

Doctor. wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:How is a thing that is not in and of itself a work of literature a literary masterpiece?

Going further, if you consider Dragon Ball Z Movie 8 to be a "literary masterpiece," you really, really, really need to get out more. That's just sad.
What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.
Honestly, even I know that I am simply inferior to Tako Koyama, and I should just drop everything, as I could never, ever make something like the all mighty, and perfect Broly chan. Even Akira Toriyama at his top game cannot make characters capable of comparing to the perfection of Broly.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:39 am

emi_b7 wrote:
TheMikado wrote:I understand the complaint but for a 45 minute movie I would assume they wouldn't want him to be anything other than the LSSJ.
This is 100% true IMO. The first Broly movie was good and, for a 45' movie where he had to share the spotlight with Paragus, he was a fine character too. The second movie is a disgrace and the third one is barely a Broly movie (it shouldn't have been one IMO).
Dudes, the first Broly movie far outstripped the other Z movies' classic runtime of ~45 minutes. It had a whopping run time of 72 minutes and only got surpassed, when BoG was released.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Saturnine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:38 am

Full Power Perfect Cell was supposed to be a monstrosity, I think he'd kill all the guys instantly. The absolute minimum he can be at is say, 1,3x FPSSj Gohan (for those 2x SSj2 freaks), but personally I put him even higher. But to be fair, that's also kinda where I put Broly. 1,3x Goku would be perfectly enough to give everyone a beatdown like he did, and it's worth noting that he wasn't able to kill anyone.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:50 am

ProjectAlpha22 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:How is a thing that is not in and of itself a work of literature a literary masterpiece?

Going further, if you consider Dragon Ball Z Movie 8 to be a "literary masterpiece," you really, really, really need to get out more. That's just sad.
What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.
Dude, my favorite line of prose:
"KAKAROT. KAKAROTTTTTTT. KAKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOT."-Broly
Move aside The Oddessy and Dante's Inferno, we have a new classic.
The title was obvious click bait to draw in the Broly haters to see if they could actually refute the points with anything worth any value. Looks like it worked beautifully.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by ProjectAlpha22 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:16 am

TheMikado wrote:
ProjectAlpha22 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.
Dude, my favorite line of prose:
"KAKAROT. KAKAROTTTTTTT. KAKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOT."-Broly
Move aside The Oddessy and Dante's Inferno, we have a new classic.
The title was obvious click bait to draw in the Broly haters to see if they could actually refute the points with anything worth any value. Looks like it worked beautifully.
Actually, I love Broly, but I can see any you would think that. :)
I just wanted to have a little fun!
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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by manwolf » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:14 pm

TheMikado wrote:
manwolf wrote:No, Broly is an example of a chosen one elected for evil, but with zero motivation unless you count his desire to kill Goku, no because he interfere with his plan or some kind of legend, no he wants to kill Goku because he cries as a baby, and he are controlled by his father, the guy with the real plan.

As a concept that a chosen one are evil is interesting, and unless you count the crying Broly beginning is interesting, a legendary saiyan that is feared by the king of saiyans and he tries to kill the baby.

I think that with no apparent legend in between, this form is better to be another kind of transformation like the grades or trunks form in super.
But you're missing the point of what I said, Broly isn't a character, he's a force of nature. An avatar for the essence of the saiyan race. He has no more motivation than a hurricane or a tornado he pure destruction. They just needed an excuse for him to zero in on Goku that's it.
If this were the cartoon the avatar this would be like aang fully accepting his only purpose is to be the avatar and basically going into a permanent avatar state and walled up in a prison waiting for the next time to be activated. It's a crazy sick concept and it's really amazing.


But Broly isn't a force of nature, he is mortal and have zero relationship with reincarnation, the comparison with aang is flawed, he is a semi mythical guy with a relationship with a non physical world and chosen to bring balance, and you van have a dark avatar.

Broly is a mortal guy with no relationship with goods or spirits, apparently he is a chosen one because the legend of the super saiyan. But is not like we have an entire prophecy about super saiyans with conditions and acts, we only have a figure of a legendary transformation and multiple guys with these transformation and Broly with a special transformation with no good reason.

Broly could have been an anti-Goku, a super saiyan of the legend but evil or tainted, but they need to show the transformation to show Broly with objectives not her father slave or angry about the most stupid thing, Broly need to be more like Zamasu and less like a stupid chimp.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Doctor. » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:49 pm

TheMikado wrote:
ProjectAlpha22 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: What are you talking about? Talentless shmucks such as Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Poe should hit the road and make way for BROLY and Takao Koyama as the focus of Literature courses from here on out.
Dude, my favorite line of prose:
"KAKAROT. KAKAROTTTTTTT. KAKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOT."-Broly
Move aside The Oddessy and Dante's Inferno, we have a new classic.
The title was obvious click bait to draw in the Broly haters to see if they could actually refute the points with anything worth any value. Looks like it worked beautifully.
But you called it a masterpiece within the main post as well, though.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:54 pm

^ same reasons apply. Of course it's not a literary masterpiece.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:59 pm

manwolf wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
manwolf wrote:No, Broly is an example of a chosen one elected for evil, but with zero motivation unless you count his desire to kill Goku, no because he interfere with his plan or some kind of legend, no he wants to kill Goku because he cries as a baby, and he are controlled by his father, the guy with the real plan.

As a concept that a chosen one are evil is interesting, and unless you count the crying Broly beginning is interesting, a legendary saiyan that is feared by the king of saiyans and he tries to kill the baby.

I think that with no apparent legend in between, this form is better to be another kind of transformation like the grades or trunks form in super.
But you're missing the point of what I said, Broly isn't a character, he's a force of nature. An avatar for the essence of the saiyan race. He has no more motivation than a hurricane or a tornado he pure destruction. They just needed an excuse for him to zero in on Goku that's it.
If this were the cartoon the avatar this would be like aang fully accepting his only purpose is to be the avatar and basically going into a permanent avatar state and walled up in a prison waiting for the next time to be activated. It's a crazy sick concept and it's really amazing.


But Broly isn't a force of nature, he is mortal and have zero relationship with reincarnation, the comparison with aang is flawed, he is a semi mythical guy with a relationship with a non physical world and chosen to bring balance, and you van have a dark avatar.

Broly is a mortal guy with no relationship with goods or spirits, apparently he is a chosen one because the legend of the super saiyan. But is not like we have an entire prophecy about super saiyans with conditions and acts, we only have a figure of a legendary transformation and multiple guys with these transformation and Broly with a special transformation with no good reason.

Broly could have been an anti-Goku, a super saiyan of the legend but evil or tainted, but they need to show the transformation to show Broly with objectives not her father slave or angry about the most stupid thing, Broly need to be more like Zamasu and less like a stupid chimp.
Except his actions by and large are self preserving and unconscious even as an infant. What even Broly is he's far far far from normal. And something about his mere existence is driving his survival beyond him consciously and actively doing it.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by manwolf » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:30 pm

I says normal like mortal non-mystical being.

Yes part of the history of Broly his about her will or life as a baby but this is not something strange. But the problem is that Broly as a villain has zero goals apartamento of kill goku not because something coherentt but because goku cries, even if his hate of goku are unconcius mental traumas doesn't work like this and a trauma is something to drive the plot not to center the character.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Akira » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:15 pm

So, you made a topic just to troll people, and you're proud of it..


Why not make a topic about some obscure detail in the series, and develop an interesting conversation around it? You're a smart guy, I've seen you do it before. I think you're better than this, and can come up with better ideas for topics other than troll baiting people for amusement. You have the potential in you to be a great conversationalist without resorting to the sensational or hot button topics within the franchise. You can do better, I'll keep checking your topics, as I know you have more interesting things to say. :thumbup:
"Of" =/= "Have"

Contractions:
-Should have = Should've
-Could have = Could've
-Would have = Would've

The heck does "should of" even mean anyway? Think about what those two words mean individually, and then try to read them back to back in a sentence and make sense of it. Are you forming a prepositional phrase, is "should" a part of a larger grouping, or are you just typing random words based on how you think you hear them used verbally? Perhaps take a moment to contemplate this, and see if it becomes as mind jarring for you to look at as it does for me..

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:31 am

manwolf wrote:I says normal like mortal non-mystical being.

Yes part of the history of Broly his about her will or life as a baby but this is not something strange. But the problem is that Broly as a villain has zero goals apartamento of kill goku not because something coherentt but because goku cries, even if his hate of goku are unconcius mental traumas doesn't work like this and a trauma is something to drive the plot not to center the character.
Right so again you miss the character analysis that Broly himself is not really a character. The LSSJ has basically overtaken him where that is his only real identity. The Goku aspect is merely a way to focus it on the main character. Nothing more. The transformation is the character not Broly. I would certainly consider Brolys transformation mystical and supernatural in nature. It is legendary and incredibly rare. This isn't something like blue eyes or a genetic deformity because the rarity and fequency of its occurance do not lend itself to genetics.

However even if it were it would be no different then a mental genetic disorder overtaking and defining a person and the argument is what his is, what he was born as, makes him completely deranged with no goals or ability to restrain himself besides destruction. Which due to consistent writing, falls completely in line with the actual LSSJ legend of brutal and loving destruction.
Last edited by TheMikado on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:39 am

Akira wrote:So, you made a topic just to troll people, and you're proud of it..


Why not make a topic about some obscure detail in the series, and develop an interesting conversation around it? You're a smart guy, I've seen you do it before. I think you're better than this, and can come up with better ideas for topics other than troll baiting people for amusement. You have the potential in you to be a great conversationalist without resorting to the sensational or hot button topics within the franchise. You can do better, I'll keep checking your topics, as I know you have more interesting things to say. :thumbup:
The idea of the topic was to give a different perspective of Broly and his actual meaning in the context of the development of the only two full blooded saiyan protagonists of the series. One being a representation of everything he both wants to be and fears, while the other rejecting it and overcoming it. The point was to draw in those looking to tear down the character because they would flock to a thread with such a title looking to detract from it. In the thread itself I gave a argument as to why it is a well conceived concept and certainly open to discuss it. It was certainly bait but i offered enough meat to make it worth the time of anyone who actually did want to discuss it rather than the usually Broly has no no character and kakkorot jokes. I apologize that is trolling, but it believe the points I made need greater visibility within the fan base.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by manwolf » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:58 am

TheMikado wrote:Right so again you miss the character analysis that Broly himself is not really a character.
A character analysis of a non-character, this is absolutely logical. That a transformation is the focus of a character and not a medium to expand his plot is bad writing and if we use Broly transformation is worse.

Broly is a character with a genetic disorder that the disorder is all the characteristics about his personality, in other characters this situation are called bad writing, why broly are different, yeah a villain needs to be powerful, but the villain need to have other characteristics. For example a lot of villains kill people in cold blood, in scenes that are significant to the plot, Broly with his disorder cannot have this type of scenes, Broly is a monster, a powerful monster but only a monster.

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