LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

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TheMikado
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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:32 pm

rereboy wrote:
TKA wrote:
rereboy wrote:
Clearly, it's not just that.
It is just that with arbitrary power levels slapped onto it.
There are plenty of arguments in this topic and others for why he is not. The problem with Broly is that fans will almost always try to simply dismiss him if they don't like him, and other fans will try hype him up if they like him... and both groups will accuse the other of doing it. Personally, I try to see beyond all that.
Exactly, arguing that the LSSJ is merely USSJ seems to show a rather obtuse understanding of not only abstract concepts but the concrete evidence the creators have placed in the narrative. It's clear from the numerous scenarios Broly survives that the LSSJ form grants powers and abilities beyond the biologically limitations of saiyan bodies.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TKA » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:22 am

rereboy wrote:The problem with Broly is that fans will almost always try to simply dismiss him if they don't like him
There is nothing to simplify. He's a brain-damaged half-wit that gets angry. That's his character.

His backstory doesn't inform his character since nothing in his background matters. King Vegeta? Nope. Him being a saiyan? Nope.

The only thing of relevance is a silly motivation predicated on something he shouldn't even be able to remember. He is a simple character, but executed poorly.
TheMikado wrote: Exactly, arguing that the LSSJ is merely USSJ seems to show a rather obtuse understanding of not only abstract concepts but the concrete evidence the creators have placed in the narrative. It's clear from the numerous scenarios Broly survives that the LSSJ form grants powers and abilities beyond the biologically limitations of saiyan bodies.
Arbitrary power level nonsense. His design is just Trunks' form, but with a green tint.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by rereboy » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:00 am

TKA wrote:
There is nothing to simplify. He's a brain-damaged half-wit that gets angry. That's his character.

His backstory doesn't inform his character since nothing in his background matters. King Vegeta? Nope. Him being a saiyan? Nope.

The only thing of relevance is a silly motivation predicated on something he shouldn't even be able to remember. He is a simple character, but executed poorly.
You couldn't have demonstrated my point more perfectly.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:25 pm

rereboy wrote:
TKA wrote:
There is nothing to simplify. He's a brain-damaged half-wit that gets angry. That's his character.

His backstory doesn't inform his character since nothing in his background matters. King Vegeta? Nope. Him being a saiyan? Nope.

The only thing of relevance is a silly motivation predicated on something he shouldn't even be able to remember. He is a simple character, but executed poorly.
You couldn't have demonstrated my point more perfectly.
Exactly. The thread starts off with giving an analysis of the character and the response is "nah-uh"... It feels like a waste to even try an have a discussion.
I will add this piece as well.

Broly is particularly interesting because he is almost an example of what the Hulk could/would be if his transformation were genetic from birth rather than achieved in adulthood. Bruce Banner being the alter-ego of the Hulk is certainly interesting, however imagine if Bruce Banner had to be artificially medicated, restrained, and isolated. What would that have done to his psyche and personality being constrained in such a way, and would the actual attempts to restrain his transformation have resulted in an even more depraved individual? These are very interesting concepts which unfortunately aren't explored but certainly present. It is also implied in the scene with Paragus and the scientist that these methods are exasperating Broly's depravity.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by Doctor. » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:42 pm

Nobody is simplifying Broly. Rather, you're trying to overthink him and make him seem deeper than he actually is. All the interesting concepts you bring up, what does the story do with them? Nothing. Nothing at all. Which means the writers didn't care and didn't bother to make them a part of his character. There's nothing particularly compelling about him. He was born with huge power, he's insane most likely because of it and his father keeps him under control. That's what the story tells us about him, he's still a character, he's not being portrayed as a monster until his third film where it's not even the real Broly.

Paragus is the best character of the duo and the one who is often overlooked.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by rereboy » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:48 pm

Doctor. wrote:Nobody is simplifying Broly.
People do that all the time, as well as the opposite. This topic is no exception.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:28 pm

Doctor. wrote:Nobody is simplifying Broly. Rather, you're trying to overthink him and make him seem deeper than he actually is. All the interesting concepts you bring up, what does the story do with them? Nothing. Nothing at all. Which means the writers didn't care and didn't bother to make them a part of his character. There's nothing particularly compelling about him. He was born with huge power, he's insane most likely because of it and his father keeps him under control. That's what the story tells us about him, he's still a character, he's not being portrayed as a monster until his third film where it's not even the real Broly.

Paragus is the best character of the duo and the one who is often overlooked.
Except for the fact where he's literally called a monster in every movie.
Further:
Crap, link was taken down. Anyway Piccolo literally tells Goku..
"You're not just fighting a saiyan, you're fighting a monster.."

But its painfully obvious the writers didn't care or bother to explain that he's NOT a monster so they thought the most effective way to show that he's not a monster is to state he's a monster... Ok got it.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by manwolf » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:14 pm

Broly is a monster in the sense that his strength is bigger that the characters in that time can imagine. But Broly isn't some kind of obtuse avatar or even have some kind of double personality.

Broly is a saiyan like the first vision of these warriors, evil nature, but augmented because of his power and his transformation, also Broly is a deranged man, but not so deranged that he loses his sense, he is more a controlled psychopath, even in his second film with an break of reality so bad that he confuses Goku with his son he can control his transformation and toy with his enemies.

Bio-Broly his Broly without personality, only his power, but he only stand of his hate of Goku not because some astral projection of his transformation.


Soi Broly his a really complex character, well for be a filler villain.

The legendary transformation is clearly inspired by USSJ and Freeza final form but unlike these form Broly is fast and he doesn't lose stamina, only he cannot control his power.

Because of her third movie is apparent that Broly is born with these transformation but i don't know the process of cloning Broly, Broly has by some process some memories of her live or he have some genetic memories like in Assassins Creed.

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Re: LSSJ Form... Has always been a literary masterpiece

Post by TheMikado » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:27 pm

^ I think we can certainly disagree on whether Brolybis a representation for something greater than himself, however what his is and how he got to the state he is in is far more complex than people give the character credit for. I won't disagree that his form is visually is little different from USSJ, but to state that's all LSSJ is, is to fail to recognize that it does create unique circumstances and invoke complex development situations on its user. My only goal was to recognize that there is much more then just a dumb enemy going on but we are watching a completely deranged psychopath loose grip on reality and go on a rampage. In terms of enemies that's not something that's been done in the series to a similar extent.

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