Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

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Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:40 pm

Freeza was ridiculously powerful, which made the power growth of the characters ridiculous to compensate. Freeza was the strongest in the universe, which means his defeat being so "early" closes a lot of doors for future enemies, not to mention the entire organization has a lot of potential for villains. A complaint a lot of people have is that DB flanderized the legend of the Super Saiyan, but saving Freeza for later would mean it's only included at the very end of the story (since I can't see the transformation being as cathartic if it's achieved in any other arc).

I imagine if Freeza got namedropped in the Saiyan arc and his organization, as well as his name and presence, got built-up in the subsequent arcs, that it would leave for a much richer story and a better developed world. You can have Ginyu, or any other member of the Ginyu Force if you want to save Ginyu for later, as the big boss of the Namek arc.

Of course, this would require a level of planning Toriyama wouldn't have been bothered to do, so it's fun to think about :P

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:46 pm

I definitely think the dynamic of a prior "villain" being on the Universe 7 ten-fighter team is a great idea... and that's probably why they're bringing #17 into the fold. Quite frankly, we've just had too much Freeza lately, and if Frost is going to continue to be part of the show, it would just be too much. That group dynamic of having to keep Freeza in check while simultaneously needing his overwhelming power to support the universe in the upcoming matches? Yeah, that'd be awesome... but again, just too much Freeza lately.

(As neat as it would be to have Frost and Freeza interact, I don't actually think there's much of value that could really come out of that, either.)

So yeah, that might be why #17 is such a great choice. It's really convenient to have him still be alive out there, and there's sure to be some tension between him and some other teammates. That's what I'm really looking for, and I can't really think of anyone else that's worth bringing.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by sintzu » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:54 pm

What they should've done is have RF start with Beerus and Champa agreeing about the small tournament and Super Dragon Balls reward then continue with RF up to Vegeta beating down Freeza.

When he blows up earth have Goku grab Vegeta before he's caught in the explosion then have them go to Namek only to find that their dragon balls were already used by the kais to separate.

Both u6&7 wouldn't have an earth and the winner of the torunament will get theirs back which would put a lot more at stake on the torunament.

What about Freeza ? Whis would bring up that he doesn't need air to breathe so he could be alive or could've died from the exlosion due to him being weakened by Goku and Vegeta. just leave it open.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:04 pm

Toriyama should've done the same thing with Freeza as he did with Roshi: make him one of the top 10 strongest in the universe but not the absolute most powerful. Goku being on par with Roshi as early as the second arc makes him one of the most powerful people on Earth already but Toriyama managed through Tao Pai Pai, Tien and Piccolo to introduce more strong guys after that, not diminishing Goku's accomplishments and leaving organic room for more stories instead of just jumping to space much sooner.

Freeza should've been like that, the strongest of one quadrant of space but the strongest out of a potential "big four" who rule all four corners of the galaxy. And since a universe has more than one galaxy, you can build even more from there. But making Freeza the strongest of basically everything outside Kaioshin and Beerus was a big mistake.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by sintzu » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:07 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza should've been like that, the strongest of one quadrant of space but the strongest out of a potential "big four" who rule all four corners of the galaxy. And since a universe has more than one galaxy, you can build even more from there. But making Freeza the strongest of basically everything outside Kaioshin and Beerus was a big mistake.
This might've happened if Toriyama had planned things ahead but he didn't. then again, if he planned everything out we wouldn't have gotten the franchise the way we know it now. maybe it wouldn't even be a franchise if it went in a different direction.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:11 pm

sintzu wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza should've been like that, the strongest of one quadrant of space but the strongest out of a potential "big four" who rule all four corners of the galaxy. And since a universe has more than one galaxy, you can build even more from there. But making Freeza the strongest of basically everything outside Kaioshin and Beerus was a big mistake.
This might've happened if Toriyama had planned things ahead but he didn't. then again, if he planned everything out we wouldn't have gotten the franchise the way we know it now. maybe it wouldn't even be a franchise if it went in a different direction.
Considering the fact the franchise we know was already starting to crack with the Freeza fight and collapsed in on itself, I can't imagine a different direction would've hurt things.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:26 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Toriyama should've done the same thing with Freeza as he did with Roshi: make him one of the top 10 strongest in the universe but not the absolute most powerful. Goku being on par with Roshi as early as the second arc makes him one of the most powerful people on Earth already but Toriyama managed through Tao Pai Pai, Tien and Piccolo to introduce more strong guys after that, not diminishing Goku's accomplishments and leaving organic room for more stories instead of just jumping to space much sooner.

Freeza should've been like that, the strongest of one quadrant of space but the strongest out of a potential "big four" who rule all four corners of the galaxy. And since a universe has more than one galaxy, you can build even more from there. But making Freeza the strongest of basically everything outside Kaioshin and Beerus was a big mistake.
Due to all the backstory Freeza has with the Saiyans, I think he's the most cathartic final boss Toriyama could make, so ideally, he should have been the final villain. Since the scale of the organization he rules over, Toriyama could have easily pulled a lot of enemies from his army and make them bosses of their individual arcs before getting to the real big boss.

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:49 pm

I've thought about this too. What if they put Buu first, kept Cell in the middle and pushed Frieza to the end as the ultimate villain? Buu could be nerfed and still used as an introduction to King Kai. It'd make a whole lot more sense for King Kai to be crapping his robes over something like Buu compared to two Saiyans who don't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Cell and the androids come next, though not as strong as they were in canon. Maybe a few people could die in the arc and the Dragon Balls would be inactive because Kami fused with Piccolo and Dende isn't around. Then they could find out about Namek and head off for a showdown with the Emperor of the Universe.

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Frieza should have happened after the Cell Arc.

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by floofychan333 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:32 am

Using the Saiyajin arc to build up to Freeza would actually have been a great idea. However, Freeza being on the U7 team is a terrible idea which is pretty much self-explanatory.
Doctor. wrote: Of course, this would require a level of planning Toriyama wouldn't have been bothered to do, so it's fun to think about :P
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:11 am

Doctor. wrote:
I imagine if Freeza got namedropped in the Saiyan arc and his organization, as well as his name and presence, got built-up in the subsequent arcs, that it would leave for a much richer story and a better developed world. You can have Ginyu, or any other member of the Ginyu Force if you want to save Ginyu for later, as the big boss of the Namek arc.

Of course, this would require a level of planning Toriyama wouldn't have been bothered to do, so it's fun to think about :P
As you yourself stated, it would require an extensive amount of planning, build-up etc. Basically what MCU are doing with Thanos.
However, unlike MCU, which already has a large fanbase due to large number of comic fans, large number of superhero movie fans etc and is a big franchise already with material available to base stories on, DB manga did not start off as a big franchise or with a huge fanbase. Its fanbase built slowly, probably even after the entire manga was finished.

I guess if Dragon-Ball ever gets a "reboot" of any sort, then it is possible, or maybe in a fanmanga?
I would think freeza arc could've turned out to be, say, ginyu arc where captain ginyu and his underlings instead of freeza are the main focus. Freeza is only briefly introduced, and to destroy the planet, ginyu uses freeza's ship which contains a small amount of his power.
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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:25 am

I remember an old thread that moved the Frieza arc till after the buu arc and it went like this.

Android Arc: Vegeta leaves, the Z warriors battle 19 and 20 and then 17 and 18 become allies. Gero retreats here.

Cell Arc: Gero using Cells from Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo creates Cell. Vegeta also returns during this arc and he is forced to join the others when Cell reaches his perfect form. Gero would activate 13, 14, 15 and 16 here and this is where we first hear of Frieza and the Super Saiyan legend. SSJ Goku ultimately beats Cell.

Buu Arc: Trunks appears and warns Goku of Majin Buu a powerful villain from his timeline, we also meet the Supreme Kai here. Later the the three Super Saiyans are able to over power Fat Buu and he transforms into Super Buu. Later we do the ROSAT training where Vegeta destroys Super Buu only for Kid Buu to later appear. Gohan as a SSJ2 defeats Kid buu after Goku dies.

Frieza Arc: Long story short, the Buu arc warriors fight through the Frieza forces and Vegito is the one that beats Frieza and dies on Namek.

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:33 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:I remember an old thread that moved the Frieza arc till after the buu arc and it went like this.

Android Arc: Vegeta leaves, the Z warriors battle 19 and 20 and then 17 and 18 become allies. Gero retreats here.

Cell Arc: Gero using Cells from Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo creates Cell. Vegeta also returns during this arc and he is forced to join the others when Cell reaches his perfect form. Gero would activate 13, 14, 15 and 16 here and this is where we first hear of Frieza and the Super Saiyan legend. SSJ Goku ultimately beats Cell.

Buu Arc: Trunks appears and warns Goku of Majin Buu a powerful villain from his timeline, we also meet the Supreme Kai here. Later the the three Super Saiyans are able to over power Fat Buu and he transforms into Super Buu. Later we do the ROSAT training where Vegeta destroys Super Buu only for Kid Buu to later appear. Gohan as a SSJ2 defeats Kid buu after Goku dies.

Frieza Arc: Long story short, the Buu arc warriors fight through the Frieza forces and Vegito is the one that beats Frieza and dies on Namek.
Nah, doesn't sound too good. Goku should be the one to beat Frieza as a Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan should be something he achieves in that fight.

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Re: Would it have been better if Freeza got saved for later?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:07 am

Its not Interesting but honestly I like it how it is. They should have handled his return better though.
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