Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

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TheUltimateNinja
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Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:31 pm

Goten and Trunks were stated to have exceptional battle power since they were born without tails.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:36 pm

Perhaps the tail helps the Saiyan to access their true potential, specially when they become a Great Ape. But when the tail isn't there it could mean the Saiyan doesn't need a conduit to its full potential and it makes even easier to become a Super Saiyan.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:21 pm

Did it really say that's why they were strong? I thought Toriyama just said having a tail is a recessive trait or something.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:34 pm

In an interview in the US version of SJ, Toriyama says a Saiyan's body decides that a saiyan's body decides the tail is just a hindrance once they get strong enough. Could be that Goten and Trunks lack tails because they were really strong already rather than vice-versa. There's also the theory that Saiyan strength is hereditary. Just look at Goten and Pan compared to Kid Gohan. It'll be really interesting to see what happens with Bra when she finally shows up.

The tails stopped showing up entirely during Namek, so if there is a threshold where it stops growing back (and doesn't vary by individual), I'd hazard a guess that it's somewhere in the ~20,000 range.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:00 am

It's a coincidence. By the time Goten and Trunks appeared, the power scale had become insanely bloated, so they had to be pretty strong to be relevant in the story. By that time, Toriyama was sick of drawing tails on Saiyans.
BlueBasilisk wrote:In an interview in the US version of SJ, Toriyama says a Saiyan's body decides that a saiyan's body decides the tail is just a hindrance once they get strong enough. Could be that Goten and Trunks lack tails because they were really strong already rather than vice-versa. There's also the theory that Saiyan strength is hereditary. Just look at Goten and Pan compared to Kid Gohan. It'll be really interesting to see what happens with Bra when she finally shows up.

The tails stopped showing up entirely during Namek, so if there is a threshold where it stops growing back (and doesn't vary by individual), I'd hazard a guess that it's somewhere in the ~20,000 range.
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As far as I know, that interview doesn't exist. Do you have a link to it? The only interview in which Toriyama talked about why he got rid of Goku's tail that I know about was from the Dragon Ball 30th Anniversary “Super History Book, where he says this:
Toriyama Akira wrote:No, it’s just that I’m always thinking about how things are supposed to work, so it was a real pain to figure out how he’d put his pants on or stuff like that. That’s what always bugged me most. Is there a hole in the pants? Does he put his tail through first, then put the pants on? So that made me want to just get rid of the darn thing… which I did, in the end. (laughs)

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Saturnine » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:13 am

I wouldn't say one is because of the other. That these two things happen to coincide would be more accurate.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:08 am

DanielSSJ wrote:As far as I know, that interview doesn't exist. Do you have a link to it?

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:52 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:As far as I know, that interview doesn't exist. Do you have a link to it? The only interview in which Toriyama talked about why he got rid of Goku's tail that I know about was from the Dragon Ball 30th Anniversary “Super History Book, where he says this:
Toriyama Akira wrote:No, it’s just that I’m always thinking about how things are supposed to work, so it was a real pain to figure out how he’d put his pants on or stuff like that. That’s what always bugged me most. Is there a hole in the pants? Does he put his tail through first, then put the pants on? So that made me want to just get rid of the darn thing… which I did, in the end. (laughs)
It's in the interview Grimlock linked. Further down the page, Marc LaCroix asks what happened to Vegeta's tail:
Toriyama Akira wrote:The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great–you’ll lose your strength if it’s squeezed. Once you’re as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Perfectionist-Cell » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:39 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Goten and Trunks were stated to have exceptional battle power since they were born without tails.

They are prodigies.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Gog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:58 am

They don't. Nothing has ever stated that having tails or not having tails influences the strength of a Saiyan, nothing even remotely implies it. Trunks and Goten are just simply prodigies, who are somehow capable of going Super Saiyan from birth. So I'd consider them too be mutants.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Vegetail » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:32 am

Gog wrote:Nothing has ever stated that having tails or not having tails influences the strength of a Saiyan, nothing even remotely implies it.
I wouldn't say nothing. Goku got a bit of a boost when he grew his tail back during his fight with Giran, didn't he?
If you're talking about the cases where the Saiyan in question was born without a tail, ignore me.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Gog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:41 am

Vegetail wrote:
Gog wrote:Nothing has ever stated that having tails or not having tails influences the strength of a Saiyan, nothing even remotely implies it.
I wouldn't say nothing. Goku got a bit of a boost when he grew his tail back during his fight with Giran, didn't he?
If you're talking about the cases where the Saiyan in question was born without a tail, ignore me.
He never got a boost in power from his fight with Giran. The only advantage his tail gave him was the ability too fly.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:34 am

Gog wrote:
Vegetail wrote:
Gog wrote:Nothing has ever stated that having tails or not having tails influences the strength of a Saiyan, nothing even remotely implies it.
I wouldn't say nothing. Goku got a bit of a boost when he grew his tail back during his fight with Giran, didn't he?
If you're talking about the cases where the Saiyan in question was born without a tail, ignore me.
He never got a boost in power from his fight with Giran. The only advantage his tail gave him was the ability too fly.
No, he clearly becomes stronger once he grows his tail back.


Chapter: 40, P12.4, 13.1
Goku: “Heheh! I knew that I’m in better condition when I’ve got my tail!”
*He smashes wall*
Goku: “Alright! I’m in tip-top shape, tip-top shape!”

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Gog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:19 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Gog wrote:
Vegetail wrote: I wouldn't say nothing. Goku got a bit of a boost when he grew his tail back during his fight with Giran, didn't he?
If you're talking about the cases where the Saiyan in question was born without a tail, ignore me.
He never got a boost in power from his fight with Giran. The only advantage his tail gave him was the ability too fly.
No, he clearly becomes stronger once he grows his tail back.


Chapter: 40, P12.4, 13.1
Goku: “Heheh! I knew that I’m in better condition when I’ve got my tail!”
*He smashes wall*
Goku: “Alright! I’m in tip-top shape, tip-top shape!”
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

First thing's first. Never once has Goku's actually stated that he becomes stronger when the tail comes back. He only refers to himself being in tip-top shape and I knew I'm in better condition when I've got my tail. The second statement I think was when he was flying around in the air with his tail and he now has an extra limb, so he literally in a better condition. Anyway it's more likely to assume that Goku had an adrenaline rush from his tail growing back.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:24 am

Gog wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Gog wrote:
He never got a boost in power from his fight with Giran. The only advantage his tail gave him was the ability too fly.
No, he clearly becomes stronger once he grows his tail back.


Chapter: 40, P12.4, 13.1
Goku: “Heheh! I knew that I’m in better condition when I’ve got my tail!”
*He smashes wall*
Goku: “Alright! I’m in tip-top shape, tip-top shape!”
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

First thing's first. Never once has Goku's actually stated that he becomes stronger when the tail comes back. He only refers to himself being in tip-top shape and I knew I'm in better condition when I've got my tail. The second statement I think was when he was flying around in the air with his tail and he now has an extra limb, so he literally in a better condition. Anyway it's more likely to assume that Goku had an adrenaline rush from his tail growing back.
It literally shows him being stronger. Earlier he's unable to get out of Giran's gum, but once he gets his tail back he breaks out easily. And he kicks the wall to test his new power and Giran immediately surrenders out of fear. Also, he doesn't even use his tail to fly in that fight.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by Gog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:45 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Gog wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: No, he clearly becomes stronger once he grows his tail back.


Chapter: 40, P12.4, 13.1
Goku: “Heheh! I knew that I’m in better condition when I’ve got my tail!”
*He smashes wall*
Goku: “Alright! I’m in tip-top shape, tip-top shape!”
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

First thing's first. Never once has Goku's actually stated that he becomes stronger when the tail comes back. He only refers to himself being in tip-top shape and I knew I'm in better condition when I've got my tail. The second statement I think was when he was flying around in the air with his tail and he now has an extra limb, so he literally in a better condition. Anyway it's more likely to assume that Goku had an adrenaline rush from his tail growing back.
It literally shows him being stronger. Earlier he's unable to get out of Giran's gum, but once he gets his tail back he breaks out easily. And he kicks the wall to test his new power and Giran immediately surrenders out of fear. Also, he doesn't even use his tail to fly in that fight.
Then, adrenaline rush? Zenkai? might actually be the first Zenkai in the series. Huh must be remembering some other fight then.

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Re: Why do tailless Saiyans have more power?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:48 am

Gog wrote: Then, adrenaline rush? Zenkai? might actually be the first Zenkai in the series. Huh must be remembering some other fight then.
Goku didn't even get hurt. And the source of his new power is obviously his tail, he says it himself.

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