Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

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ChiefWamsutta
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Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:32 am

All credit for this theory goes to Terez27 (from reddit.com/r/dbz/) and Geekdom101.

So ... 39 years ago the Oracle Fish predicted that a Super Saiyan God would appear; however, the prophecy was made in the Cell and Future Trunks Timelines. The Oracle Fish would have been talking about Goku who would die and never meet Beerus.

The aforementioned users believe that this is a plot hole, as the Oracle Fish may not be able to see across timelines. Excluding the fact that Toriyama forgot about this, what do you all think of this issue?

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:36 am

It must have been Broli.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:40 am

I have thought about this before, and I personally explain it away as the Oracle Fish telling Beerus "Somehow, some way, Beerus is going to fight a Super Saiyajin God. I don't know how; heck, for all I know, there could be something wacky involved like time travel, as impossible as that would be. All I know is Beerus is gonna fight this guy. Somehow. I don't even know if it's actually you."

In this way, there is no timeline or Beerus specified, and it opens up the possibility for the prophecy to be free of criteria for occurrence; the prophecy will come to pass with no specification of method or timeline. It doesn't necessarily have to take place in every single timeline created thereafter, nor does it have to happen to every single Beerus.

At least, that's the way I've always thought about it.
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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:54 am

Whis doesn't think Oracle's predictions are always reliable. A reality where Super Saiyan God exists because Goku is alive & one where Oracle is mistaken due to Goku's death may coexist. I don't think that's necessarily a "plot hole". While it's on my mind, isn't it equally possible that Oracle doesn't make that prediction in the original worlds?

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:52 am

Nejishiki wrote:While it's on my mind, isn't it equally possible that Oracle doesn't make that prediction in the original worlds?
That's impossible, because there was only one timeline before Trunks split them. Since Oracle Fish's prediction takes place before the split, his prediction 39 years before BoG is the same in every timeline Trunks/Cell created.
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Lord Frieza
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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Lord Frieza » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:56 am

Well first and form most its clear that both Beerus and the Orical Fish fish's predictions are not 100% accurate. In-fact Beerus's are so often wrong the Whis makes fun of them.


Predictions and prophecies in many different stories are all about seeing into the future. How they work depends on who that world and time work. In a world like Dragon Ball time is very malleable, one change can have a lot of unintended consequences. In that kind of universe, the future is not set and ever changing based on multiple ongoing variables. However in other stories like Legacy of Kain, the future is set and time itself will do whatever it takes to keep on its intended path.

Also the fish only predicted a powerful rival, not SSG. That could very well have meant Zamasu, if his ambitions were allowed to grow naturally with no outside influence from Goku or himself. It could even mean a resurrected Frieza or even Buu or Cell if their power was allowed to grown unchecked. Alternatively if we stick with Beerus's prediction as well, Black fits the bill of a SSG just as much as Goku dose and he did quite a bit of time hoping with that ring.

One way or another their was a way of at least the orical fish to be right, while Beerus is a bit more dubious however he has a history of getting things wrong.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Grimlock » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:29 pm

First of all, Geekdom comments about the destruction of planeta Vegeta/Goku's date birth as being a plothole, even though it really isn't, it's more likely a retcon, they just moved AGE 737 events to AGE 739.

But let's get to the actual subject. I just think that fate exists (proved in many occasions, the most recently one was Zamasu switching bodies with Goku in a future/different timeline), so if fate exists, then Oracle Fish knew that Trunks would come to the present and save Goku. As far-fetched and odd as it may sound, it also sounds like a thing that Toriyama could come up with, the easiest answer is generally the correct one.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Luke Groundwalker » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:37 pm

The Oracle Fish's prophecies aren't meant to be 100% valid. Remember in both the movie and in the arc, Beeerus and Whis were frequently at doubt about it's predictions.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Cipher » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:19 pm

A bit off topic, but since others have pointed it out here, I love that Beerus and Whis keep around a fish whose sole talent and claim to fame are prophecies that are only occasionally accurate.

Oracle Fish is a great tertiary character.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:16 pm

if you believe in alternate universes, then you'd have to consider all possible futures are possible. Oracle fish makes a prediction, even if 99.99% of all universes don't see it coming true, there will be a 0.01% of the remaining universes that will see that prediction coming true.

I guess. It's a pretty big plothole.
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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Makaioshin » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:22 pm

Maybe the reason none of the dead Gokus did anything for Earth after dying is because they were busy with Beerus. Or maybe the Oracle Fish is just that good.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:22 am

Geekdom is creating this plothole, Whis said Oracle Fish and Beerus were wrong before BOGs thanks to Trunks they were simply right this time in the present and wrong in the future.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by Doctor. » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:40 am

The Oracle Fish said a Super Saiyan God would arrive, NOT Goku. Following the rules of destiny, a Super Saiyan God must have appeared somewhere in the multiverse, we just never found out.

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Re: Oracle Fish predicting SSG despite Time Travel

Post by LuckyCat » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:35 am

Doctor. wrote:The Oracle Fish said a Super Saiyan God would arrive, NOT Goku. Following the rules of destiny, a Super Saiyan God must have appeared somewhere in the multiverse, we just never found out.
It was Tarble. It was always meant to be Tarble. :lolno:
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