Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

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Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by Speedster » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:28 am

In a lot of debates about Goku’s speed, I see people quoting the following page from Shonen Jump.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]As you can read from the scan above it says the following:
As Freeza changes into new forms each more powerful than the last, the desperate heroes […] find themselves struggling to merely stay alive. […] On the other side of the planet Goku awakens from within his healing capsule and streaks to the battle field to turn the tide.
Those who quote the above page use it as “proof” that Goku travelled half a planet is one second or so. Now the thing is that this page from this Shonen Jump is actually wrong (or mistranslated it doesn't matter). The statement that Goku was at the other side of the planet is 100% false.

Goku in chapter 290 (after his body received severe damage from the fight of Ginuy-Goku versus Vegeta) was put into a healing chamber. This was in Freeza’s spaceship. And … the battles against Freeza happened NEAR the spaceship, not at the other side of the planet. For those that forgot the exact story, while Goku was healing in the spaceship, Vegeta took a nap outside the spaceship. Meanwhile Kuririn went to learn the incantation for the Dragonballs and upon his return to the spaceship together with Dende he shout to Gohan and altogether they took the Dragonballs (which were outside the spaceship), and went a little bit away (to not awake Vegeta) and summoned Porunga. But where they went was very close to the spaceship. And we know this for a fact because when Vegeta woke up he could see Porunga summoned a very short distance away from where he was at (which was at the spaceship). And because a picture equals one thousand words…from chapter 293:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
When Vegeta realised that Kuririn and Gohan summoned the dragon in secret, he became angry, he went there and had an argument with them and since there was still one wish left and Freeza was approaching, they agreed to let him wish for immortality. But then the great Elder died, Porunga disappeared and the Dragonballs turned into stones. Vegeta got mad about not getting his wish, started shouting at Kuririn but Freeza showed up.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
All the subsequent battles against Freeza happened there/nearby. They didn’t move to a different place or to the other side of the planet in order to fight. Sure enough they might have moved a little during fighting, like 100-200m or so, but definitely they didn't go to the other side of the planet. So when Goku healed up and travelled from the spaceship to the battlefield the distance he travelled was like 500m or so – certainly NOT half a planet’s circumference (… unless Namek was super-small like Kaio’s planet which we know for a fact it wasn’t).

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by theherodjl » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:22 am

You think that's an overtly wanked fan claim of speed regarding DB characters? How about the one where because Kaio was able to telepathically communicate with Goku aboard his superluminal spaceship then that means their senses are superluminal? Even worse, in a filler scene of Goku & Freeza fighting they move too fast for Kaio to keep track so that is proof that Goku is faster than even faster than light senses can detect?
I don't even want to think how fast the fanboys consider Goku & Vegeta are now with God powers when they put them at Barry Allen Flash levels using normal Ki...
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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:30 am

Speedster wrote: Now the thing is that this page from this Shonen Jump is actually wrong (or mistranslated it doesn't matter). The statement that Goku was at the other side of the planet is 100% false.
To be more specific with this. It's not that it's a mistranslation or anything, just that it's something that was completely made up for the North American release of Shonen Jump. No such page appears for any original Japanese release of SJ, and no official Japanese publication has ever suggested that it was on the other side of the planet.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:33 am

I don't think it's far fetched to assume that they moved around quite a lot during the high intensity battles where every punch had the force to knock the opponent through a mountain and off into the distance.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by Speedster » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:39 am

theherodjl wrote:You think that's an overtly wanked fan claim of speed regarding DB characters? How about the [...]
Well these other arguments despite whether you agree with the conclusion reached or not, are at least based on true events as their premises. This one however is based on completely false information.
theherodjl wrote:one where because Kaio was able to telepathically communicate with Goku aboard his superluminal spaceship then that means their senses are superluminal? Even worse, in a filler scene of Goku & Freeza fighting they move too fast for Kaio to keep track so that is proof that Goku is faster than even faster than light senses can detect?
Actually I know this argument slightly differently.
1. Kaio tracked the Saiyan’s (Nappa's, Vegeta's) superluminal spaceships and he was able to calculate their speed and when they were going to arrive on Earth. And these spaceships were over 1000xFTL based on the fact that they were 5.67 times faster than the Namekian spaceship which went from Earth to Jupiter in at most a few seconds.
2. In the Freeza arc, in the anime. Kaio couldn’t track SSJ Goku’s and Freeza’s moves because they were moving too fast.
3. So, SSJ Goku and Freeza must be fighting faster than Kaio could track (which was spaceship speeds).
4. Therefore SSJ Goku's fighting speed in the Freeza arc is at least 1000xFTL.

Honestly I have absolutely no problem with the above argument. Actually I support it, but I also support that travelling speeds are not even close to fighting speeds. Problem is that the above conclusion is based on anime-only material and it was also later contradicted by the fact that Kaio could track SSJ3 Goku fighting against Beerus just fine. Yet again in Super even SSJB Goku (fighting versus Hit) can be traced by Bulma and Mr Satan and Super is generally laughable when it comes to power scaling.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by saunasolmu » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:53 pm

The whole .1 seconds thing with Hit kinda contradicts any absurd combat speeds.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:10 am

saunasolmu wrote:The whole .1 seconds thing with Hit kinda contradicts any absurd combat speeds.
0.5 in the anime.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:22 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
saunasolmu wrote:The whole .1 seconds thing with Hit kinda contradicts any absurd combat speeds.
0.5 in the anime.
It started at 0.1, so he was not wrong.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:30 am

dbgtFO wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
saunasolmu wrote:The whole .1 seconds thing with Hit kinda contradicts any absurd combat speeds.
0.5 in the anime.
It started at 0.1, so he was not wrong.
I was pointing out that it's even more absurd in the anime. Given the 0.5s limitation their combat speed is far inferior to even 21st Budokai Kuririn and not that far above peak humans, which I suppose would fit since Bulma, a normal human, can follow their movements.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:46 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote: I was pointing out that it's even more absurd in the anime. Given the 0.5s limitation their combat speed is far inferior to even 21st Budokai Kuririn and not that far above peak humans, which I suppose would fit since Bulma, a normal human, can follow their movements.
Oh, okay.
And yep classic Toriyama basically.

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by zarmack » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:37 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: 0.5 in the anime.
It started at 0.1, so he was not wrong.
I was pointing out that it's even more absurd in the anime. Given the 0.5s limitation their combat speed is far inferior to even 21st Budokai Kuririn and not that far above peak humans, which I suppose would fit since Bulma, a normal human, can follow their movements.
Which is bad writing on Toriyama's part. The Cell Games made it a point that Goku vs Perfect Cell was so fast that Gohan was the only person who could watch the whole fight. Also the fact that more Ki = more strength = more speed. So Bulma being able to watch SSB Goku vs Golden Freeza in RoF is retarded no matter how you look at it :lol:

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by Ssjcell » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:52 pm

Speedster wrote:In a lot of debates about Goku’s speed, I see people quoting the following page from Shonen Jump.
As you can read from the scan above it says the following:
As Freeza changes into new forms each more powerful than the last, the desperate heroes […] find themselves struggling to merely stay alive. […] On the other side of the planet Goku awakens from within his healing capsule and streaks to the battle field to turn the tide.
Those who quote the above page use it as “proof” that Goku travelled half a planet is one second or so. Now the thing is that this page from this Shonen Jump is actually wrong (or mistranslated it doesn't matter). The statement that Goku was at the other side of the planet is 100% false.

Goku in chapter 290 (after his body received severe damage from the fight of Ginuy-Goku versus Vegeta) was put into a healing chamber. This was in Freeza’s spaceship. And … the battles against Freeza happened NEAR the spaceship, not at the other side of the planet. For those that forgot the exact story, while Goku was healing in the spaceship, Vegeta took a nap outside the spaceship. Meanwhile Kuririn went to learn the incantation for the Dragonballs and upon his return to the spaceship together with Dende he shout to Gohan and altogether they took the Dragonballs (which were outside the spaceship), and went a little bit away (to not awake Vegeta) and summoned Porunga. But where they went was very close to the spaceship. And we know this for a fact because when Vegeta woke up he could see Porunga summoned a very short distance away from where he was at (which was at the spaceship). And because a picture equals one thousand words…from chapter 293:
When Vegeta realised that Kuririn and Gohan summoned the dragon in secret, he became angry, he went there and had an argument with them and since there was still one wish left and Freeza was approaching, they agreed to let him wish for immortality. But then the great Elder died, Porunga disappeared and the Dragonballs turned into stones. Vegeta got mad about not getting his wish, started shouting at Kuririn but Freeza showed up.
All the subsequent battles against Freeza happened there/nearby. They didn’t move to a different place or to the other side of the planet in order to fight. Sure enough they might have moved a little during fighting, like 100-200m or so, but definitely they didn't go to the other side of the planet. So when Goku healed up and travelled from the spaceship to the battlefield the distance he travelled was like 500m or so – certainly NOT half a planet’s circumference (… unless Namek was super-small like Kaio’s planet which we know for a fact it wasn’t).
I dont get why people put so much weight into the guides , this is wrong and so are most of them this is a perfect example of how much more stock you can put into analyzing the facts of the manga compared to just being told like we're six. It's insulting

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Re: Debunking a myth – The distance Goku travelled to fight Freeza after he healed

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:31 pm

zarmack wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: It started at 0.1, so he was not wrong.
I was pointing out that it's even more absurd in the anime. Given the 0.5s limitation their combat speed is far inferior to even 21st Budokai Kuririn and not that far above peak humans, which I suppose would fit since Bulma, a normal human, can follow their movements.
Which is bad writing on Toriyama's part. The Cell Games made it a point that Goku vs Perfect Cell was so fast that Gohan was the only person who could watch the whole fight. Also the fact that more Ki = more strength = more speed. So Bulma being able to watch SSB Goku vs Golden Freeza in RoF is retarded no matter how you look at it :lol:
Inconsistencies like this are why it's hard to really know how fast any DB characters are unless we are explicitly told.
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