Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

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Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:52 am

So as we all know, Humans/Earthlings are getting a "build up" in this on-going arc prior their participation in the tournament, Krillin had been the major Earthling so far in these last episodes (75-84) to go through a fighting skills recovery & significant improvement. Tien may also get his time to shine.

All this just enhanced what I've been saying for years now, since watching the DBZ Android Saga (13.5 years ago) when the show became "Super Saiyan Franzy" - Humans could & should be given a bigger role in the front lines, I know Frieza & SSJ Goku's power levels were too absurdly high for their time in the franchise (at how it turned to be), thus leaving the Humans too far behind with a never stoping to grow gap, even Piccolo who was Akira Toriyama's favorite character at the time (now it's Jaco & Roshi) fell short and couldn't keep up with the next obstacles.

Long story short: as stated in the title - I'd place Yamcha & Chiaotzu (besides in Resurrection 'F' where I missed them the most) in helping Tien vs. Semi-Perfect Cell as they intended to do in DBZ episode 153, just before Roshi break their spirit, it felt out of character for Chiaotzu who just gave his life to save Tien from Nappa 5 years earlier to listen to Roshi all of the sudden and leave his best friend to his fate. Yamcha had the drive to go there, I don't see why did he even snapped out of his adrenalin rush to listen to the old pervert instead of trying to do what he saw as right. Yamcha, Krillin & Tien are at around the same tier at that moment, Chiaotzu should be about 1/3 as strong as Yamcha who's the weakest of the trio who showed up against the Androids (Chiaotzu wanted to come but Tien forced him to quit, thinking he did not got powerful enough to face the new threat even after 3 years of training). Taking that into account, Yamcha could use his Sokidan to help Tien from the side while Chiaotzu could use the Dodon Wave to keep Cell's mind distracted, it may not be enough to harm him, but enough to help Tien get his Shin Kikho a little gap between each charge. Once Goku teleports there he picks the warn out Tien on his shoulder, tells the tired Yamcha & Chiaotzu to hold on to him, then he teleports to save the dying Piccolo, and proceeds to Kami's Lookout before Cell could get them.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:47 pm

I would rather have Freeza arc be special in itself. Android arc operate at a much lower power level. It would give humans chance.
If say, perfect cell was only twice as strong as freeza, and cell jrs were as strong as 2nd form freeza, you could have had all the three humans team up against one cell junior and stalemate him, while stronger characters like Piccolo can take multiple cell jrs.
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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by floofychan333 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:21 pm

I'd want Tenshinhan to survive Nappa and do a bit of stuff against Vegeta. I've always felt like they could have gotten more out of Tenshinhan, though not much more because he's basically developed except for his full backstory.
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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:26 pm

I want Satan to become one of Gokuu's friends earlier on so that Videl could have been a Dragon Team member alongside Gohan in the Saiyan arc and Namek arc.
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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Majin Jator » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:09 am

Yajirobe. His selfish nature would make for interesting/fun team dynamics. I wish he had gone to Namek.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:44 pm

I think Chiaotzu should have came with Tien to the battle with Super Buu (Gotenks & Piccolo absorbed) for a last round of action in DBZ, I understand that due to Kid Buu's blowing the Earth the Other World's souls station was stacked with dead people thus Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Chiaotzu, Trunks & Goten were stuck in the line and could not be present on the Grand Kai's Planet to fight Kid Buu when he invaded the planet while looking for Goku & Vegeta who were at the Kaioshin realm.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Akyon » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:44 pm

Honestly? All of the ones present as Z warriors in all arcs.

Chiaoutzu, as much as I give him crap, could have been wonderfully utilised with his unique skillset, but instead psychic powers were rendered pointless in the face of raw ki energy.

Hell, I'd have Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiaoutzu overcome a major threat using team work and tactics, kind of like what they're hinting at recently with Episode 84 of Super. Alone they were weak, but by combing their skills they'd be able to keep up with the saiyans and Piccolo. Have Yamcha, and Chiaoutzu gather the antagonist into a trap using their special moves, and then have Tenshinhan pin them, and Krillin finish them off with the Kienzan.
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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:56 pm

How the storyline progressed after the Frieza Saga was quite disturbing and pessimistic for the Humans: So we all know Frieza at his full power back on Namek was at 120,000,000 while SSJ Goku reached 150,000,000, while the Humans were like at the ten thousands or at best slightly above 100,000, then there was a gap of a year and eight months where peace seemed to returned and all is left is to wait for Goku to return (I like to take into account the Garlic Jr. Saga filler events to put some juice in the awaiting), then we learn that Frieza isn't dead but in fact was cybernetically enhanced by his father's scientists and alongside King Cold is on his way to Earth even stronger than before - during this event we learn that the Human Z-Fighters had not progressed as drastically in strength to be able to protect their planet even with the likes of Vegeta, Piccolo and Gohan on their side. IMO at the Future Trunks Saga the Humans' Power Levels are at the hundred thousands EACH while the 3 stronger but not Earthling (at least not fully) characters are at the low singular digit millions each.

Once the Frieza & Cold meance is over by Future Trunks we had for the session of 3 years of training for the Androids, at the end of that Piccolo had improved DRAMATICALLY to be able of taking out Android 20 (who should be at least over Frieza's power level to be viewed as a threat) while the Humans didn't grew so exponentially in power, being at around the lower single digit millions (IMHO: Tien; 5,000,000; Krillin: 4,500,000; Yamcha: 3,000,000) with Chiaotzu is about 1,000,000 at best if not still in the hundred thousands to leave him behind as Akira Toriyama didn't found him battle-worthy anymore. Tien can still burst a Shin-Kikho barrage (don't know if the Senzu he got after Android 17 choke him helped him power up) that leaves even the likes of Androids 18 & 16 (two who are alone several times stronger than Gero who is stronger than Frieza) in shock and to hold back Semi-Perfect Cell who should be in the higher hundred millions if not in the region of billions for a few minutes. But Krillin and Yamcha were totally neglected during this saga till the very end of it. While preparing for the Cell Games we see everyone, INCLUDING CHIAOTZU, training their best for 10 days to gain as much power as they can for the tournament. While STILL not growing monstrously in power like the gap Piccolo did even before merging with Kami to become a Super Namek, Yamcha & Tien proves (in the anime at least) able to beat up a Cell Jr. while teaming up to save the exhausted SSJ Goku, Krillin barely survives the fight with the small evil Bio-Androids. They later help SSJ2 Gohan in his Kamehameha struggle with Super Perfect Cell in a desperate attempt to save their home planet, but as Cell himself noted: Their power levels are as flies to him and blew them away like pests (Super Namekian Piccolo included) with a power up.

After 7 years where almost all but Tien and Chiaotzu neglected their training the Humans' power levels had most likely dropped from it's peak, mostly because the kids in Japan of the 1990s wanted more Super Saiyan toys and merchs than Humans so they had to be tossed away somehow to clear the room for "the Super Saiyans & Piccolo Show" with cameo filler fight scenes by the Humans: Krillin vs. Super Buu that ended with everyone on Kami's Lookout turned into candy and eaten alive, Tien vs. Super Buu with Gotenks+Piccolo absorbed that showed Humans don't have anything to sell against this power tier, Yamcha vs. Olibu and Winged-Gorilla was a fanservice scene, and so does Yamcha vs. Krillin, and the fight of the Grand Kai's Planet fighters vs. Kid Buu when Krillin and Yamcha lasted even longer than Pikkon.

With Dragon Ball Super I'd really liked to see ALL the Humans jump into the Beerus fight before Goku shows up, same about Resurrection 'F' where they could have their calories burning time with Frieza's soldiers.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by MaxZ » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:37 am

I would have had both 18 and 17 do something of note in the Buu Saga, as in something actually important and helpful

also I'd have some fights in the tournament between the other humans, like maybe a Krillin VS Tien match.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:37 am

MaxZ wrote:I would have had both 18 and 17 do something of note in the Buu Saga, as in something actually important and helpful

also I'd have some fights in the tournament between the other humans, like maybe a Krillin VS Tien match.
The purpose of the thread was the original Z-Fighters or characters who are Humans and rely on their flesh and blood powers, not Jinzoningens/Androids/Cyborgs.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by MaxZ » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:43 am

Israelite Wolfman wrote:
MaxZ wrote:I would have had both 18 and 17 do something of note in the Buu Saga, as in something actually important and helpful

also I'd have some fights in the tournament between the other humans, like maybe a Krillin VS Tien match.
The purpose of the thread was the original Z-Fighters or characters who are Humans and rely on their flesh and blood powers, not Jinzoningens/Androids/Cyborgs.
they're still humans biologically and they got to do even less than a lot of the other humans did

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:52 am

MaxZ wrote:
Israelite Wolfman wrote:
MaxZ wrote:I would have had both 18 and 17 do something of note in the Buu Saga, as in something actually important and helpful

also I'd have some fights in the tournament between the other humans, like maybe a Krillin VS Tien match.
The purpose of the thread was the original Z-Fighters or characters who are Humans and rely on their flesh and blood powers, not Jinzoningens/Androids/Cyborgs.
they're still humans biologically and they got to do even less than a lot of the other humans did
Human who got his/her power levels through mechanical enhancement is not a Human, it's a cyborg, the fact their reproduction system still works to breed with their former kind doesn't mean they fall into whom I intended while writing the OP: Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Master Roshi, Yajirobe, Nam, etc.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by MaxZ » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:27 pm

Israelite Wolfman wrote:
MaxZ wrote:
Israelite Wolfman wrote: The purpose of the thread was the original Z-Fighters or characters who are Humans and rely on their flesh and blood powers, not Jinzoningens/Androids/Cyborgs.
they're still humans biologically and they got to do even less than a lot of the other humans did
Human who got his/her power levels through mechanical enhancement is not a Human, it's a cyborg, the fact their reproduction system still works to breed with their former kind doesn't mean they fall into whom I intended while writing the OP: Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Master Roshi, Yajirobe, Nam, etc.
cyborgs are still human. unless you think a person with a prosthetic arm is not human anymore... having robot parts doesn't change what species you are.

and, I mentioned Tien and Krillin didn't I?

I really do think Tien should have been in the tournament, that was a missed opportunity imo.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:58 pm

MaxZ wrote:
Israelite Wolfman wrote:
MaxZ wrote: they're still humans biologically and they got to do even less than a lot of the other humans did
Human who got his/her power levels through mechanical enhancement is not a Human, it's a cyborg, the fact their reproduction system still works to breed with their former kind doesn't mean they fall into whom I intended while writing the OP: Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Master Roshi, Yajirobe, Nam, etc.
cyborgs are still human. unless you think a person with a prosthetic arm is not human anymore... having robot parts doesn't change what species you are.

and, I mentioned Tien and Krillin didn't I?

I really do think Tien should have been in the tournament, that was a missed opportunity imo.
I meant fully human not: "Human/Cyborg". Tien had been moved away from the main cast for idiotic reasons. That I agree with you.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:36 pm

Revised with numbers to make sense:
How the storyline progressed after the Frieza Saga was quite disturbing and pessimistic for the Humans: So we all know Frieza at his full power back on Namek was at 120,000,000 while SSJ Goku reached 150,000,000, while the Humans were like at the ten thousands (Chiaotzu: 25,000; Yamcha: 70,000) or at best slightly above 100,000 (IMO Krillin: 130,000 and Tien: 115,000), then there was a gap of a year and eight months where peace seemed to returned and all is left is to wait for Goku to return (I like to take into account the Garlic Jr. Saga filler events to put some juice in the awaiting), then we learn that Frieza isn't dead but in fact was cybernetically enhanced by his father's scientists and alongside King Cold is on his way to Earth even stronger than before - during this event we learn that the Human Z-Fighters had not progressed as drastically in strength to be able to protect their planet even with the likes of Vegeta, Piccolo and Gohan on their side. IMO at the Future Trunks Saga the Humans' Power Levels are at the hundred thousands EACH (Chiaotzu: 500,000; Yamcha: 700,000; Krillin: 750,000; Tien: 800,000) while the 3 stronger but not Earthling (at least not fully) characters are at the low singular digit millions each (Gohan: 1,000,000; Piccolo: 3,000,000; Vegeta: 4,000,000).

Once the Frieza & Cold meance is over by Future Trunks we had for the session of 3 years of training for the Androids, at the end of that Piccolo had improved DRAMATICALLY to be able of taking out Android 20 (who should be at least over Frieza's power level to be viewed as a threat) while the Humans didn't grew so exponentially in power, being at around the lower single digit millions (IMHO: Tien; 4,500,000; Krillin: 4,000,000; Yamcha: 3,500,000) with Chiaotzu is about 1,000,000 at best if not still in the hundred thousands to leave him behind as Akira Toriyama didn't found him battle-worthy anymore. Tien can still burst a Shin-Kikho barrage (don't know if the Senzu he got after Android 17 choke him helped him power up, but for the worst scenario let's say he didn't and still at 4.5 million, I'd say it was like a steep rising of 100 to 200 times power boost so he'd reach 900,000,000 to faze Cell but with the cost of his life force) that leaves even the likes of Androids 18 & 16 (two who are alone several times stronger than Gero who is stronger than Frieza) in shock and to hold back Semi-Perfect Cell who should be in the higher hundred millions if not in the region of single digit billions for a few minutes. But Krillin and Yamcha were totally neglected during this saga till the very end of it - with Yamcha's becoming a first aid guy and a pilot/driver after being jobbed by Android 20/Dr. Gero (same doubt of a power up as about Tien above) to demonstrate "the new threat is on a scale Humans won't do against" and with Krillin becoming the Senzu beans guy who is conflicted with himself about his feelings towards Android 18 who should be his enemy, only to fight against the real antagonist of the epoch: Cell in all of his forms (1st encounter Krillin would be as listed above only to rise himself to 6,000,000 when headbutting Imperfect Cell, maybe 7,000,000 in his rage boost while Taioken-blinded against Semi-Perfect Cell, and to 10,000,000 with his power angry attacks against Perfect Cell, maybe breaking the 12,500,000 with his Kienzan). While preparing for the Cell Games we see everyone, INCLUDING CHIAOTZU (who should be at the 1.5 million range if he grew stronger, yet not enough to be allowed by Tien to join them for Cell's tournament), training their best for 10 days to gain as much power as they can for the tournament. While STILL not growing monstrously in power like the gap Piccolo did even before merging with Kami to become a Super Namek, Yamcha (9,000,000) & Tien (11,000,000) prove (in the anime at least) able, with a-la-Kaioken power-up (I'd like to think it's a x10 Kaioken they've picked while at King Kai's in my headcanon), to beat up a Cell Jr. while teaming up to save the exhausted SSJ Goku, Krillin (later to be established as the strongest Human is at 12,000,000 IMHO) barely survives the fight with the small evil Bio-Androids. They later help SSJ2 Gohan in his Kamehameha struggle with Super Perfect Cell in a desperate attempt to save their home planet (Tien's Tri-beam are at 150x to make him: 1,650,000 that's still lower than even Semi-Perfect Cell to make sense; Krillin's Kamehameha is at 25,000,000 and Yamcha's Kamehameha is at 20,000,000), but as Cell himself noted: Their power levels are as flies to him and blew them away like pests (Super Namekian Piccolo included) with a power up.

After 7 years where almost all but Tien (25,000,000 - based on his Non-Canon Movie 9 battle with Future Trunks I'd say Humans can put up a fight to base form Saiyans) and Chiaotzu (2,500,000 to 3,000,000) neglected their training the Humans' power levels had most likely dropped from it's peak (Yamcha: 4,000,000; Krillin: 6,000,000 when is approached by Gohan and 10,000,000 at the 28th Tenkaichi Bodukai), mostly because the kids in Japan of the 1990s wanted more Super Saiyan toys and merchs than Humans so they had to be tossed away somehow to clear the room for "the Super Saiyans & Piccolo Show" with cameo filler fight scenes by the Humans: Krillin vs. Super Buu that ended with everyone on Kami's Lookout turned into candy and eaten alive, Tien (let's make the 100x again to reach 2,500,000,000 as he didn't drew an intense attack as against Semi-Perfect Cell) vs. Super Buu with Gotenks+Piccolo absorbed (must be a two digits billions BP creature) that showed Humans don't have anything to sell against this power tier, Yamcha (back training with his fighting spirit should be 20,000,000) vs. Olibu and Winged-Gorilla was a fanservice scene, and so does Yamcha vs. Krillin (who also got back on track at 30,000,000 to be established as the strongest Human), and the fight of the Grand Kai's Planet fighters vs. Kid Buu when Krillin and Yamcha lasted even longer than Pikkon.

With Dragon Ball Super (Whether it takes place 4 years after Kid Buu's defeat or just about less than a year) I'd really liked to see ALL the Humans, despite being far outclassed (Roshi is at about 1,000 to make his next arc appearance BACK on the front lines easier to swallow, the rest are as follows, maybe Krillin and Yamcha being at 13,500,000 and 7,500,000 respectively, Tien is at 26,500,000 and Chiaotzu is at about 4,500,000), STILL jump into the Beerus (his power is not even measurable as he keeps showing he's indeed stronger than Goku & Vegeta as long as times passes) fight before Goku shows up, same about Resurrection 'F' where they (Roshi is at 3,000 at base and 10,000 when using his buff form to 20,000 when using Maximum Power Kamehameha, Yamcha: 7,000,000 as he dropped considerably from his peak due to stop training for martial arts and is now probably a full time baseball player, Chiaotzu who's Tien's training partner should reach 5,000,000, Krillin who is titled by the film "Strongest Earthling" suffers from the same "quitting once there is a timegap" background as Yamcha thus should be at 13,000,000; Tien who still trains but is aged, DESPITE THAT DBS tries to strech the physical limits of the Humas so they'd be able to show up in further plots so I'd say Tien is at 28,000,000 while in RoF) could have their calories burning time with Frieza's soldiers who were merely 1000 B rate remnants (weaker than the grunts Frieza deployed on Namek).

I don't see how and where to place the Human Z-Fighters in the U6 Tournament other than viewers as all contestants there could stand up to SSJ Goku and Vegeta (Krillin implied in episodes 75 & 76 he won't be able to face Goku in Super Saiyan form BEFORE the last Krillin's stand-off with SSB Goku - retcon?) who should be stronger than RoF Final Form Frieza who was equal in strength to base Goku before the 3 years HTC training for this Champa Arc, and in the Goku Black Arc that was a "Sayians versus Zamasus for the sake of the universes" story. HOWEVER the new Zeno Tournament of Power preparations show that with strategy even the Human characters like Krillin, who powered up greatly since episode 76 (IMHO he was at ~1,500,000 when he hit rock bottom that even bullets could harm him making 18 call him a "weakling" and rose to 45,000,000 when he "rediscovered" his fighting passion in the Forrest of Illusions and now as of episode 84 when he sparred with Gohan he's at 150,000,000 rivaling SSJ Goku from Namek), can out-ring characters stronger than them by several folds (Gohan is now stronger than ever so he should be in the 2 digit billions again).

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Benedetto12 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Very interesting thread

Nothing to say on the Saiyan Saga, it was cool

On the android saga, I think the same as you, Yamcha and Chiatzou should have helped Tien holding back Cell, and have Tien and Yamcha train in the Time Chamber, so they would have be more powerful, and useful on the future

On Buu Saga, I think Tien and Yamcha should have helped Piccolo, Krillin and Shin, also Tien helping Gohan was cool, but Tien, Yamcha, #18, Roshi and Videl, should have helped Goku and Vegeta against Buu, I know they are weak, but they were the last hope there, they would get slaughtered, but at least be there to help, just like the Cell Games

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Benedetto12 wrote:Very interesting thread

Nothing to say on the Saiyan Saga, it was cool

On the android saga, I think the same as you, Yamcha and Chiatzou should have helped Tien holding back Cell, and have Tien and Yamcha train in the Time Chamber, so they would have be more powerful, and useful on the future

On Buu Saga, I think Tien and Yamcha should have helped Piccolo, Krillin and Shin, also Tien helping Gohan was cool, but Tien, Yamcha, #18, Roshi and Videl, should have helped Goku and Vegeta against Buu, I know they are weak, but they were the last hope there, they would get slaughtered, but at least be there to help, just like the Cell Games
Thanks :D , I'd like it if instead of a "manga cut" Dragon Ball Z Kai was just a fixed version of Z's flaws as noted here - the lack of usage of Humans in order to sell more SSJ toys. I believe it's necessary to use them during the conflicts as they are part of the struggle too, and even if outclassed by sheer power they can make up for that with strategy. If it was in my hands I'd put a "Cooler's Revenge" as a retelling DBZ Saga during the 3 years of preparations for the Androids: Cooler is notified by Salza that a Saiyan from Earth had killed Frieza, King Cold and King Cold's Unit/Soldiers, thus making him set a course to Earth with 200 of his regular/low level soldiers (he sees that as enough backup to handle a planet small as Earth), his Armored Squadron and the movie is spread over let's say 11 episodes where Goku, Gohan, Krillin and Oolong go to a picnic trip that is ruined and once the a-la-Resurrection 'F' havoc begins when Cooler's Spaceship arrives and lands near by their camp site (they used scouters to locate Goku from space) Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien & Chiaotzu joins the rumble to save their home world. This saga can end with a hint to RoF with Sorbet and all of Frieza's elite remnants (Guarana, Tagoma and Shisami) watch the battle's ending through the spy camera Sorbet had deployed on Earth shortly after all contact with Frieza or Cold (for those few who knew of his existence) had been lost and realize of what have happened to Frieza and his father = SSJ Goku.

Maybe another filler DBZ saga or a filler and major sagas could have taken place in the 7 years of peace where Gohan had transitioned from a kid into a teenager. I don't see any idea for such sagas yet but turning the Bojack Unbound movie into a retelling saga of about 14 episodes so all Humans could take place in is fine by me, and maybe a filler 2 mini-arc with the Black Frieza Soldier who was ridiculously powerful in the video game "Tenkaichi Tag Team" what-if scenario "The Soldier of Unimportance" who became the self-proclaimed leader of Frieza's army lands on Earth and attacks the World King's palace declaring he's the owner of this planet from now on, the world's hero Mr. Satan is shitting his pants out of fear since this guy demonstrate abilities as flying and ki blasts and does not want to fight him (but somehow manages to keep his reputation despite raising young Videl's concerns), the Earth seems doomed for the first episode of this epoch, since none of the Z-Fighters is aware of what's going on (the guy has small ki - as with Sorbet & Tagoma: they won't notice him unless very concentrated). Then Gohan who's a country boy without wifi somehow hears the news and rushes to face this threat, the Frieza Soldier demonstrate he's on another level than the common lackeys only to find out he's nothing compare to Earth's level while boasting lies he is "the one who defeated Frieza" while Gohan makes a joke out of him in fighting and corrects him that his now deceased father is the one who took care of Frieza, by the end of the day the soldiers kneels before Gohan, kisses his feet and asks him not to harm him and that he'll be his loyal servant - Gohan dismisses him and tells him to beat off but to think wisely about ever harming innocent lives across the universe cause he's friends with King Kai and can be notified of this, and this time he'd really won't show any mercy towards him, the soldier enters his space pod and leaves the Earth crying with a size-changing boogers balloon in his nose, by the time he flies off Krillin, Yamcha, Tien & Chiaotzu land on the battle field after they've heard the news about the soldier's attack from Bulma, Piccolo is standing on a roof top near by, smiling as this wasn't really a threat worthy of such a scale of enforcement, turns around and takes off towards Kami's Lookout.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Black Hawk » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Lunch, Upa, and Snow because they're my favorite characters and they just kind of...vanished.

Favorite character biases aside, I guess what I'd retcon in is Upa taking inspiration from Gokū defeating Taopaipai, as I had anticipated him becoming a major character after Taopaipai's defeat and Bora's revival when I first read the manga and was surprised that he...well, didn't. He'd begin training off-panel/off-screen and be absent for a good while. Unexpectedly, he'd show up at the 23rd Tournament having grown up in the same way as the other fighters have; Toriyama, in fact, designed an older Upa for the anime staff to use. He wouldn't win the tournament, of course, but he'd be at least on-par with Yamcha, Kuririn, and Tenshinhan. From there, he'd spectate the battle with Piccolo, help fight against Nappa (and probably get killed), train with Kaiō, "help" against the artificial humans, and, in a twist, marry Snow (who I also originally thought would become a major character) during the seven-year timeskip and have a son Marron's age.

Lunch would also stick around through the whole series instead of disappearing because, dang it all, she's my favorite character and I'm biased.
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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:58 am

Black Hawk wrote:Lunch, Upa, and Snow because they're my favorite characters and they just kind of...vanished.

Favorite character biases aside, I guess what I'd retcon in is Upa taking inspiration from Gokū defeating Taopaipai, as I had anticipated him becoming a major character after Taopaipai's defeat and Bora's revival when I first read the manga and was surprised that he...well, didn't. He'd begin training off-panel/off-screen and be absent for a good while. Unexpectedly, he'd show up at the 23rd Tournament having grown up in the same way as the other fighters have; Toriyama, in fact, designed an older Upa for the anime staff to use. He wouldn't win the tournament, of course, but he'd be at least on-par with Yamcha, Kuririn, and Tenshinhan. From there, he'd spectate the battle with Piccolo, help fight against Nappa (and probably get killed), train with Kaiō, "help" against the artificial humans, and, in a twist, marry Snow (who I also originally thought would become a major character) during the seven-year timeskip and have a son Marron's age.

Lunch would also stick around through the whole series instead of disappearing because, dang it all, she's my favorite character and I'm biased.
With all the sympathy I have towards Bora and Upa (loved to watch these two pretty MUCH), and would want them to take more part in the storylines in DBZ all I can imagine them being able to do is being roughly about Yajirobe's tier if trained under Kami and Popo for the Sayians' arrival (In the King Piccolo Saga, Bora was about 125% Yajirobe in my opinion [= 226.25 Scouter BP] if he could throw Goku and him up to Korin's Tower, while Upa with all his enthusiasm during the Fortuneteller Baba Saga was like <10) which makes Bora (who should still be 1.25 times stronger than Yajirbe's 970) at 1212.5 and let's say Beginning of Z Upa is at 175 and grew to let's say a ~900. They'd die against Nappa, and after being resurrected (even if to be trained by King Kai, even though I think they'll pass the offer and just rest in Heaven) would take a-la-Chiaotzu stand-off during the Android Saga and will quit fighting threats on the first priority level.

I do think that if there was a retelling of the "Dead Zone" movie as a saga in the beginning of Z before Raidtz' Arrival (let's say the movie took place 1 year before that) without the inconsistencies that had been done in the actual film (like Krillin meeting Gohan but HAS NO IDEA who he is when DBZ starts), Bora and Upa should have showed up to help Goku against Garlic Jr. and his minions, even if overpowered to demonstrate they did progressed in strength (Bora is at 230 and Upa is at 165) and that Upa could state some "juicy" details about his life as a young adult like being trained by Korin in the last period (can now use ki in a small scale) or having some girl from his Karinga Tribe he likes and that he vows that if he'd make it alive he'll go ask her out. Maybe a good payback episode during the 7 years time gap between the Cell Games and the Great Saiyaman Saga could have an episode focused on Bora and Upa facing the invading Master Shen and Tao Pai Pai to settle the score with them once and for all (Toriyama claimed they've died after getting mixed up in some mess).

Android 8 despite being an Android/Cyborg (depends on the source) is also missed, I think Snow had married someone from her village or at best married Eighter as a 18-Krillin love story. Launch was totally wasted in DBZ, she (the staff behind the show & Akira Toriyama who forgot all about her are to be blamed) missed a lot of good options to pop up in the story, like after Tien and Chiaotzu got revived to be present in Capsule Corp (blue haired/blond haired IDC), then in the Mecha-Frieza & King Cold's invasion to show her carings for Tien and pray for him to come back home alive (I don't see her following him to the battlefield and acting all high and mighty when even the likes of Iru can blast her to another dimension), she could have also be present in her blue haired form for most of the Android Saga staying at Roshi's house waiting for the ending of the conflict (with her "angered form" popping out for comedic cameos), maybe having Tien to have an episode after the Cell Games in the filler saga where he and Chiaotzu had grown tired of her enraged blond personality and collect the Dragon Balls to wish that Launch will stay normal without the personality split at sneezing issue and as peace returns to Earth they've start their own romance story. TBH My headcanon is that Tien and Launch were on and off couple during DBZ off-screen and that by the time of the Buu Saga they'd tied their knots and built an home at wherever Tien and Chiaotzu live at up-North. Chiaotzu should also find love, maybe one of his "kind" from Mifan (having Chiaotzu returning home for one episode after he was called by an official messenger to come and inherit his now-deceased uncle who was the Emperor of Mifan (if he was a prince and first to take the throne then I don't see a reason for him to become an orphan like delinquent teen as he was with Tien), funny thing is if she'd be actually a normal good looking Human.

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Re: Which Human character would you incorporate in past stories and why?

Post by sintzu » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:57 pm

I would've had Tien fight Yakon and Krillin PuiPui in the Buu arc instead of Goku and vegeta cause they got a lot of screen time afterwards.

These 2 aren't humans but I would've had Gohan take down Spopovich and Piccolo Dabura.
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