If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

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Fionordequester
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If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Fionordequester » Mon May 22, 2017 11:24 pm

...Does his family seem to think so highly of him? And why do we have moments like all the links below? Just thinking about how they react to him coming back in the Buu Saga...I dunno, they're rating of Goku seems pretty positive to me:

Chi-Chi is the first one Goku thinks about when neutralizing Beerus's attack

Gohan tells Chi-Chi about Goku returning

Chi-Chi fondly remembers marriage, honeymoon, and family life

Everyone flips out when they see Goku at the tournament

I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about. But it still seems like there's an enormous disconnect between Goku's supposed failings and what we're presented with on-screen.
Last edited by Fionordequester on Mon May 22, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon May 22, 2017 11:28 pm

Well, I guess the only conclusions we can come to is that Goku is actually a nice guy or everyone else in the gang are degenerates.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Nejishiki » Tue May 23, 2017 12:17 am

In-universe, Goku is normally regarded as a great guy by his peers. Outside of select disagreements he's had with others, everyone will eventually find themselves on his page. Discussions tailored towards his actions out of context and as a third party tend to condemn or fail to consider how the characters feel when using oneself's standards as a base.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:40 am

Goku is like a puppy.... no matter how much difficult he makes life for you, you just can't hate him. He's that likeable.

The only thing I hate is when the story and his fanboys try to romanticize his actions or less charming traits.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by swimtrunks » Tue May 23, 2017 8:11 am

Fionordequester wrote:...Does his family seem to think so highly of him? And why do we have moments like all the links below? Just thinking about how they react to him coming back in the Buu Saga...I dunno, they're rating of Goku seems pretty positive to me:
Because they're written to think that way.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by emperior » Tue May 23, 2017 9:27 am

I believe Goku is an extremely charismatic guy, that's why he's held in such high regards by everyone and is able to make friends with most of his enemies.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by TheZFighter » Tue May 23, 2017 2:39 pm

You can find many examples in real life of families sticking together, despite certain members of that family despite not behaving in an "adequate" manner.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Chuquita » Tue May 23, 2017 2:49 pm

Gokû's already an anomaly in shounen manga; most main characters in the genre never get to age into adulthood, and when they do it's usually at the series finale.

Among those that do get to become adults before the series ends, fewer get married and even fewer get divorced. Usually you'd have one runaway deadbeat parent, or one parent who's dead if you're going about splitting up a fictional couple.

Japan's having problems getting people to marry at all; showing Chi-Chi divorcing Gokû wouldn't be in their best interests, even if Toriyama himself said Gokû'd be alright living on his own.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Adrian Malacoda » Wed May 24, 2017 7:53 pm

The fandom seems to have the impression of Goku being a deadbeat dad and husband who is never there for his family. The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.

The problem with this is that we only ever see the exciting actiony stuff, when Goku has to fight or train or get himself killed. It's easy to think Goku is always dead or always off fighting or training if you don't ever see the time they spend as a family off-screen.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Akyon » Wed May 24, 2017 8:49 pm

Because you can still love someone even if they have major faults. Goku isn't going to win dad of the year award any time soon, but it doesn't stop Gohan loving his dad. Nor is he the most attentive husband in the series, but that doesn't stop Chi-Chi loving him. They may call him out on his crap occasionally though.
Adrian Malacoda wrote:The fandom seems to have the impression of Goku being a deadbeat dad and husband who is never there for his family. The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.

The problem with this is that we only ever see the exciting actiony stuff, when Goku has to fight or train or get himself killed. It's easy to think Goku is always dead or always off fighting or training if you don't ever see the time they spend as a family off-screen.
Super's had plenty of slice of life moments where Goku has evaded his family to go train even when there's no threat. Super isn't exactly having Goku hang with his kids for the sake of hanging with them either; he gets bored watching Gohan's big hollywood debut, he uses Goten to do his work for him so he can train in the first episode rather than spend time with him, he temporarily somehow forgets Gohan exists in one episode of the ToP arc whilst talking to Vegeta about who should enter the prelims thinking Vegeta means Goten when he's talking about asking his son to compete. He only takes an interest in his kids when they're wanting to train or fight, and doesn't engage with them very much outside this.

It's very easy to write it off as a TFS thing, but Super's been pushing a narrative that isn't entirely different from that popular fan interpretation.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Bruma rabu » Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm

I wouldn't say he's inadequate spouse. He gave chi chi everything she ever wanted. Gohan and Goten have a hero for a dad so they think that's coolest thing ever. Why would they have reason to feel any animosity towards goku?
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:12 pm

They like Goku cause he usually saves the day. Sure he is a horrible father, husband, and friend. Goku defeating the person who is threatening the world-universe usually outdoes the stupid and reckless acts he commits.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by BrolyKale » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:04 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon
I couldn't agree more with you.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:04 am

Going by DB and Z (I have no familiarity with Super), Goku kinda gets himself killed a lot, which tends to impact one's ability to spend time with their family. As mentioned earlier, we have several timeskips of non-action moments where Goku would logically be spending more time with them, like the seven years after the 23rd Tournament, the two years before the Androids show up, and the ten year skip after the Buu arc. To specifically deconstruct the ending, I always interpreted it that Goku was leaving the Tournament specifically, as there really isn't anything stopping him from visiting them. Heck for all we know he's flying off to Mount Paoz and back to his house for training, leaving plenty of time to spend with Chi-Chi, Gohan and Goten.

My big problem is that nobody ever seems to call out Chi-Chi. She's a terrible mother and wife in the first half of Z, and is basically a complete asshole towards Goku and absolutely refuses to sympathize with the situation, to the point where Yajirobe (YAJIROBE) asks Goku if he can hit her for it. Why does nobody ever call that out?

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Michsi » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:52 am

The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.
Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon

Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Eire » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:09 am

Goku wasn't meant to be a bad father, but some things written for the sake of the gags/plot made him unintentionally unsympathetic. It's evident in Super when writers devoted screentime to show him in family context, making Son a family with a quirks who deal with it for better or worse.

In Spoiler you have some real-life PSA, since this thread seem to operate on false assumption that may have real life repercussions
[spoiler]Abuse in relationship doesn't look like Family Guy episode- it comes in shades and circles that confuse victims and witnesses. Somebody can be abusive in one way and seemingly perfect in another (eg. parent who never physically hit the kid and cheers for every success, but use verbal violence in case of failure, spouse who withhold money unless everyone obeys.). It's also not constant- classical circle involves abuser being sorry after episode and begging for another chance or "triggered" by something and gaslighting victims. And children do love abusive parents, do everything to cover their bad situation. The misconception that you can spot the abuser from the distance actually kills people so I allowed myself to write it here.[/spoiler]
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:01 am

Dragon Ball characters have a different morality then us real world people, especially us in the west. What's acceptable to them would never fly in other stories, not just Goku's debatable quality as a dad or husband, quite a few others. For example, plop Vegeta any place else except maybe Naruto and he'd never ever in a million billion years be trusted or liked or could redeem himself for basically murdering billions of people for his own sick enjoyment. Neither would Majin Boo. I can certainly name more then a couple dozen series where the protagonists letting the bad guys get stronger just to make things more interesting would fucking floor people but in the DBverse, that's accepted.

There's also the fact a lot of us are from the west where there are big cultural differences with regards to stuff like redemption or what's acceptable for parenthood or spouses that are also factors to consider.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by LightBing » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:53 am

To gauge Goku as a husband and family man you need to check the other characters opinion of him. Chi-chi's only qualm is him providing for the family, which he tries to do, otherwise Goku the farmer wouldn't exist. She's not crying herself to sleep about how her husband is a bum, she knows who he his and is fine with it.

The only beyond the line thing I think he did was staying dead to fight strong people. I bet if consulted Chi-chi she would disagree, Gohan certainly wasn't trilled.

[spoiler]In the recent chapter of the manga Goku dedication to his family is what's given attention to in regards to his character. He's working in the fields to provide for his family, long enough to have become rusty. Which is why the joke isn't a diss towards Goku, it's to make contrast between Goku and Vegeta, the later clearly has a different World view, even if he shares the Saiyan lust for battle.
It doesn't make Vegeta better or worse than Goku, it makes him different. That's what the story tells us, people shouldn't project their morality onto the characters.[/spoiler]

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by pacz360 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:42 pm

Michsi wrote:
The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.
Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon

Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.
When was it said?
Anyway tfs may not create the goku dad thing but they are responsible for adding more fuel to it

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