If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:50 am

I think he did okay in the periods between DB and DBZ, when he had gotten married and was raising Gohan.

And we see little moments, in between Goku's fights, that show that he is a flawed but likable character.

It's the norm for superhero families for their lives to be affected by constant battles.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by JetBlack0X » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:04 pm

Well, if you want to look at it realistically, ChiChi took a promise of marriage that Goku made when they were children very seriously. She then got in a fight with him over it after they were barely adults. When he revealed that he never had any real idea of what marriage was but was willing to go through it anyway because he made a promise, she was TOTALLY fine with it. The two barely even knew each other. This is the kind of stuff that would throw up ALL the red flags and would probably be followed by a restraining order. But both followed through and seemed to be happy with that arrangement.

Never mind that Goku chose to be absent (death is not an excuse) for several years before he came back and they just continued their marriage like nothing ever happened. Neither of them even tried to move on during that time. I would think this would probably be a lot harder than "I'm back now. What's for dinner?" for the both of them. Not even a LITTLE marriage counseling? (How does their government handle Goku's multi-year death and rebirth anyway? Was he just never declared dead?)

Kinda gotta have a suspension of disbelief when it comes to this relationship, otherwise it's hard to not see it as one big horror show.

In the context of the show, though, the two are loving and supportive of both each other and their children. They've also been shown to be understanding and willing to compromise. Goku is willing to put in the work to support his family to make ChiChi happy. ChiChi puts on an angry face but still is happy to see Goku being himself. Neither of them would really be good spouse material for most people, but as for whether or not one or both of them is a good spouse is something that's up to them. That's their relationship and they're the ones who have to live with it and they both seem happy with each other.

But if their marriage had started differently I might not have needed to suspend so much disbelief. xD

Also first post. Woo! Or should I show my age and go for a "Wo0t!" instead? LOL

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:23 pm

I mean, we know Goku is an alien that came from another world as a very small child and he grew up in near total isolation on Mt. Paozu away from civilization for the most part. Heck his first interaction with another person other than Grandpa Gohan was when he met Bulma on that fateful day, and as such he really wasn't aware of the happenings around his secluded bubble. After him and young Chi-Chi met, he promised to marry her without even realizing what he was actually promising to. Of course that is because he was a pre pubescent kid at the time who didn't know that marriage was something different from what he'd believed it was (he thought it was a type of food), and it crops up again when they encounter each other a few years later during their match at the 23rd Budokai. She was pissed that he had forgotten when he was so dumbfounded until the others spelled it out who she really was, and even with all that he still makes good on the proceedings because he gave his word to her so long ago.

In terms of their relationship i see it as Goku shows that he indeed cares about her and his kids to some extent, even if it's not in a fully deep rooted passionate and mutual way. There are points we see in the series (in the anime more than the manga) that even with all his flaws he still shows it though not in the way that most people would. He's an anomaly due to his very unusual origins and operates differently from everyone else.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:51 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:23 pm
I mean, we know Goku is an alien that came from another world as a very small child and he grew up in near total isolation on Mt. Paozu away from civilization for the most part. Heck his first interaction with another person other than Grandpa Gohan was when he met Bulma on that fateful day, and as such he really wasn't aware of the happenings around his secluded bubble. After him and young Chi-Chi met, he promised to marry her without even realizing what he was actually promising to. Of course that is because he was a pre pubescent kid at the time who didn't know that marriage was something different from what he'd believed it was (he thought it was a type of food), and it crops up again when they encounter each other a few years later during their match at the 23rd Budokai. She was pissed that he had forgotten when he was so dumbfounded until the others spelled it out who she really was, and even with all that he still makes good on the proceedings because he gave his word to her so long ago.

In terms of their relationship i see it as Goku shows that he indeed cares about her and his kids to some extent, even if it's not in a fully deep rooted passionate and mutual way. There are points we see in the series (in the anime more than the manga) that even with all his flaws he still shows it though not in the way that most people would. He's an anomaly due to his very unusual origins and operates differently from everyone else.
Very good observations I'd say.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Coola Yagami » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:21 pm

I think it's kinda sad that reality is full of so many deadbeat dads and broken homes, that we feel the need to project that shit upon cartoon characters that don't really deal with those kinds of issues.

Dragonball is a fantasy world with fantasy characters that live on their own set of rules and laws that are different from our own, and even if they were somewhat based on reality, would lean more towards the Japanese way of life than the American side.

I mean TFS is funny and all, but sometimes I think people forget this is an anime and their American ideologies really should not apply.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DragonBallFan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:10 am

Coola Yagami wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:21 pm
I think it's kinda sad that reality is full of so many deadbeat dads and broken homes, that we feel the need to project that shit upon cartoon characters that don't really deal with those kinds of issues.

Dragonball is a fantasy world with fantasy characters that live on their own set of rules and laws that are different from our own, and even if they were somewhat based on reality, would lean more towards the Japanese way of life than the American side.

I mean TFS is funny and all, but sometimes I think people forget this is an anime and their American ideologies really should not apply.
Isn't that the case with all shows? It's annoying, but I feel it shouldn't be taken as seriously in an animated series, it's obvious it's not real, though I can kind of see where people are coming from on the live action side of things.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DragonBallFan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:11 am

Chuquita wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 2:49 pm
Gokû's already an anomaly in shounen manga; most main characters in the genre never get to age into adulthood, and when they do it's usually at the series finale.

Among those that do get to become adults before the series ends, fewer get married and even fewer get divorced. Usually you'd have one runaway deadbeat parent, or one parent who's dead if you're going about splitting up a fictional couple.

Japan's having problems getting people to marry at all; showing Chi-Chi divorcing Gokû wouldn't be in their best interests, even if Toriyama himself said Gokû'd be alright living on his own.
Aren't they having problems because of money? Apparently it's extremely expensive. Honestly, the world is hooked on "If you have a job, your worth something, if not, your worthless".

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by ruler9871 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:58 pm

Tavarano wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:13 pm
I know it's an in-universe thread, but the way you've structured your question suggests you're looking for out-universe answer so here goes.

That's because Toriyama is an extremely cynical writer and Dragon Ball characters are just dehumanized caricatures. I can give you some more examples of this same style of character writing in Dragon Ball that you can also find in all other Toriyama's mangas.

Roshi more or less sexually assaults Bulma whenever they are together, even though Bulma clearly doesn't like it, she doesn't hold any bad feelings towards him over it.
Image
A lot of women in real life are nowhere near as bothered by sexual assault as the #MeToo crowd suggest (not to say that it is ever justifiable). Some actually subconsciously enjoy it, because it means to them that they are desirable). So the way the women in DB act around Roshi is not unrealistic at all.

Plus, characters like Roshi are everywhere in anime/manga, and the women in those stories tend to react the same way as the ones in DB.
Tavarano wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:13 pm
Goku as he comes back from Yadrat after a year doesn't even acknowledge his son nor any of his friends, yet they do not have any problems with it, this is basically how it plays out.
Image
How is Goku supposed to act in this situation according to you?
Tavarano wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:13 pm
Gohan being 5 years old at the time should feel uneasy if not scared around Goku after his aggression outburst towards him in saiyan arc, no such thing ever happens.
Image

Kuririn and Gohan see all Dende's friends brutally murdered, few moments later they dance, jump and laugh in front of him.
Image

Gohan gets arrogant in the fight with Cell, it ends up with Goku dying, he acts the exact same way when put in similar situation in buu arc.
Image
Same goes for Gohan not training leading to everyone dying and not training again, actually his entire personality as an adult is as if his traumatic childhood never happened, see the concept?
Some people simply have naturally greater emotional/psychological endurance than others, and are not as vulnerable to trauma & anxiety as others. And some people when they do feel anxiety /trauma recover from it much faster than others.

Its part of the reason why not everyone in dangerous poor 3rd world societies is miserable & suicidal, and why not everyone in safe 1st world rich societies is happy & sane.

A big part of the reason for the mainstream success of the DB franchise in Japan & worldwide is because its characters are generally much less emo than a lot of other Japanese media. And a major part of Goku's popularity in Japan is because of his eternal optimism in the face of all adversity.

So there's nothing that unrealistic about how these characters with serious events in the series (especially in the anime adaptation), more so since this is a world where the dead can be wished back to life.
Tavarano wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:13 pm
Yamcha gets beaten up by the mummy and rationally chooses not to die melting in acid, yet his girlfriend Bulma not only doesn't show any support but calls him pathetic over it, it doesn't affect their relationship in any way whatsoever.
Image
That has more to do with Yamcha being a joke/meme character than the "nature" of DB as a whole. After all, Bulma never acts that way when Vegeta is hurt or in danger.
Tavarano wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:13 pm
This Toriyama's interview answer is pretty clear.
Image
Fionordequester wrote:I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about.
Care to elaborate?

Also sorry for no spoilers on pictures but for some reason they don't work at the moment.
I think you are heading too into that quote.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:25 pm

The fandom tends to highly exaggerate Goku's bad qualities. The truth is, Goku is flawed but likable (he's written that way on purpose). Everyone has flaws. People can have friends and family that they love and care about despite getting on each other's nerves from time to time. The problem is, the fandom expects Goku to be perfect, and when he's not, he's seen as the worst person ever.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:31 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:11 am

Aren't they having problems because of money? Apparently it's extremely expensive. Honestly, the world is hooked on "If you have a job, your worth something, if not, your worthless".
And that's taken to an extreme in Japan. They work absolutely insane hours in Japan, and your job is basically your life there. How can you even have a regular relationship?

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DragonBallFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:36 am

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:31 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:11 am

Aren't they having problems because of money? Apparently it's extremely expensive. Honestly, the world is hooked on "If you have a job, your worth something, if not, your worthless".
And that's taken to an extreme in Japan. They work absolutely insane hours in Japan, and your job is basically your life there. How can you even have a regular relationship?
I know, whats your point?

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:34 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:36 am
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:31 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:11 am

Aren't they having problems because of money? Apparently it's extremely expensive. Honestly, the world is hooked on "If you have a job, your worth something, if not, your worthless".
And that's taken to an extreme in Japan. They work absolutely insane hours in Japan, and your job is basically your life there. How can you even have a regular relationship?
I know, whats your point?
I'm just talking =/ Never mind. Sorry to bother you then.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by DragonBallFan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:56 am

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:34 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:36 am
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:31 pm


And that's taken to an extreme in Japan. They work absolutely insane hours in Japan, and your job is basically your life there. How can you even have a regular relationship?
I know, whats your point?
I'm just talking =/ Never mind. Sorry to bother you then.
Aww man, I'm sorry. I may have came off a bit rude there, I was just on guard from arguing with some users constantly here that it sounded like to me you were being passive aggressive, my fault, sorry about that. I do agree with you though, how would anyone have a regular relationship, mental health is especially bad there as well.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:07 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:25 pm
The fandom tends to highly exaggerate Goku's bad qualities. The truth is, Goku is flawed but likable (he's written that way on purpose). Everyone has flaws. People can have friends and family that they love and care about despite getting on each other's nerves from time to time. The problem is, the fandom expects Goku to be perfect, and when he's not, he's seen as the worst person ever.
You make some valid points. I personally like it when characters have flaws. I don't like it when they have certain flaws like a lack of loyalty to a love interest but that's just me. But ego is a flaw I find amusing.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:44 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:56 am
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:34 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:36 am


I know, whats your point?
I'm just talking =/ Never mind. Sorry to bother you then.
Aww man, I'm sorry. I may have came off a bit rude there, I was just on guard from arguing with some users constantly here that it sounded like to me you were being passive aggressive, my fault, sorry about that. I do agree with you though, how would anyone have a regular relationship, mental health is especially bad there as well.
No worries, bro. It happens to the best of us. I tend to just jump in to random conversations.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:31 pm

Because the people in the world of Dragonball aren't well written outside of things that involve action or adventure.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by Desassina » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:05 am

The story has just been through an identity crisis ever since the original series creator finished the manga. Toriyama isn't the one writing or drawing, but when he does, Goku is about as iconic as a fictional character needs to be, so that he can move new concepts and designs forward. Since Dragon Ball Super acknowledged the fandom and what it thinks about the series to draw attention, it's only natural that memes and works of fiction made it into the story, Goku being a bad father and spouse included. In the original manga, you had no reason to believe that a guy who's been dead most of the time to not care about his family, the few moments when he did proving otherwise. Super had slice of life episodes for no reason at all that can't compare to the character development of a story moving forward.

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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:39 am

Because Toryiama's stance on Vegeta is a family man and Goku is a asshole is some new agenda that he thinks make them both better characters. They both changed character wise in the Buu arc to what they are now. It works for Vegeta but sucks for Goku.

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