If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...

[KBABZ]

Like The Cake is a Lie, it's a joke that's been taken far too seriously. Again, Chi-Chi isn't exactly a shining example of parenthood either, and neither is Vegeta. The fact of the matter is that Toriyama doesn't do luvvy duvvy stuff that often and it is certainly not a focus of the story. It's much like how in pulp action movies and video games, the budgeting of how they afford plane tickets and are able to murder dozens of dudes without being arrested and taken to court due to the gratuitous evidence is brushed aside for the sake of the story.

[Michsi]

The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.

Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon

Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.

When was it said?
Anyway tfs may not create the goku dad thing but they are responsible for adding more fuel to it

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/
My mistake. It wasn't with the editor. But the idea does come up and Toriyama doesn't dispute it, and in a way confirms it.

As much as Goku didn’t do many fatherly things, Piccolo was Gohan’s surrogate father.
Toriyama:
Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, either.

And this was in 2004, I think.

While I think this might be an exaggeration, even if it comes from the author himself, the notion of Goku being too self-absorbed to be a proper family man has been mentioned in official interviews a couple of times, I believe. There was that one with saiyans not usually having parental instincts and such.

And I don't think they added fuel to it, just made it more visible. They might have played a part in spreading the joke, but they sure aren't responsible for it taking off.

[Dbzfan94]

My mistake. It wasn't with the editor. But the idea does come up and Toriyama doesn't dispute it, and in a way confirms it.

As much as Goku didn’t do many fatherly things, Piccolo was Gohan’s surrogate father.
Toriyama:
Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, either.

And this was in 2004, I think.

While I think this might be an exaggeration, even if it comes from the author himself, the notion of Goku being too self-absorbed to be a proper family man has been mentioned in official interviews a couple of times, I believe. There was that one with saiyans not usually having parental instincts and such.

And I don't think they added fuel to it, just made it more visible. They might have played a part in spreading the joke, but they sure aren't responsible for it taking off.

That definitely sounds like he's joking around. Before Super, nobody in DB had a job so that doesnt really prove anything. Plus, TFS 100% added fuel to it to the point where yu have people saying Piccolo is Gohans real dad

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Goku also works and provides for his family, respects Chi Chi enough to ask and need permission off her to train, when she has no power over him to stop him.

Simple answer, it is a meme and people just sucked into it thinking "oh funny I will make a Goku bad husband and Dad joke" I will get tonnes of likes and retweets, look how clever I am guys!!!!

[Michsi]

That definitely sounds like he's joking around. Before Super, nobody in DB had a job so that doesnt really prove anything. Plus, TFS 100% added fuel to it to the point where yu have people saying Piccolo is Gohans real dad

While I do think there is some tongue-in-cheek here, he's been constantly depicting and describing Goku like this for years. There was that statement about him not really making a distinction between family and friends too. He sees everyone as companions or something like that. And this was about ten years later, around the time the BOG movie came out. So people can choose to interpret these answers in the interview as they wish, but remember, this was the author who ended the story with having Goku simply take off without a warning after telling his family "I'll come visit now and then, 'kay bye"

Goku also works and provides for his family, respects Chi Chi enough to ask and need permission off her to train, when she has no power over him to stop him.

Simple answer, it is a meme and people just sucked into it thinking "oh funny I will make a Goku bad husband and Dad joke" I will get tonnes of likes and retweets, look how clever I am guys!!!!

Isn't this Toei, though? They've always tried to paint Goku in a less harsher light. Toriyama even complained about this iIrc. Eitherway, just because he isn't the ideal family man, doesn't automatically mean he is the absolute worst or that he isn't capable of being caring or respectful.

I can't help but feel there is no middle ground with this issue. People either see him as misunderstood great guy that is a victim of a bad meme or a sociopath.

I like Goku, he is my second favorite character, but this depiction of a flawed character doesn't bother me, and neither does the joke.

[Xeogran]

Didn't Toyotaro add fuel into that "meme" in last month's chapter too? The fact that Goku wasn't present at Gohan's birth was unnecessary.

If I can add a note of myself, I want to say:

Wish people weren't so harsh on GT Pan when she was angry at Goku. Maybe now everyone will realize that she was the only character to act like a human around him. She was the breath of fresh air compared to everyone who didn't call him out.

If Super ever goes past EoZ, they'll probably make Pan not care that Goku abandoned her for 5 years too, and be but another character that agrees with every action of his.

[floofychan333]

Goku is kind of hard not to like and has just been around so long that life without him is impossible. Chi-Chi probably still hopes he'll be an affectionate husband one day and the kids probably feel positive about Goku because children are able to love their parents even when they're absent or abusive. I say that not to paint Goku as that entirely but to enhance my point.

[KBABZ]

Dunno why people keep pointing to Piccolo, he wasn't exactly kind to Gohan during their training and left him to die for half a year before kicking his ass unfairly. AND he dies just like Goku does!

[BrolyKale]

^I think Piccolo was still evil at that time.

[Sexyphobe]

Because for whatever reason, some people don't like Goku, AT wants to keep outdoing himself on what a selfish ass Goku can be, and because TFS introduced these to people who probably wouldn't think twice about it to begin with.

It's not like anyone else is a better dad. Piccolo isn't exactly a role model (but with his clothes, it's hard for any kid to not think he's boss), Vegeta is... Vegeta. Krillin seems like a cool dad.

[Michsi]

Dunno why people keep pointing to Piccolo, he wasn't exactly kind to Gohan during their training and left him to die for half a year before kicking his ass unfairly. AND he dies just like Goku does!

Basically

^I think Piccolo was still evil at that time.

Piccolo has often been called a hypocrite for lambasting Goku after he sent Gohan out to fight Cell and use the argument that he was the one that introduced Gohan to the world of fighting in the first place, against Gohan's will. And while that might be true, people also forget that Piccolo was a villain at the time. Gohan was nothing to him. The whole "Piccolo is a dad" joke isn't a result of those 6 months of training or even his sacrifice. It's from everything that comes after.

[Dbzfan94]

The whole "Piccolo is a dad" joke isn't a result of those 6 months of training or even his sacrifice. It's from everything that comes after.

But thats the thing; there's absolutely nothing in the manga indicating Piccolo was there for Gohan outside of training.

[Michsi]

The whole "Piccolo is a dad" joke isn't a result of those 6 months of training or even his sacrifice. It's from everything that comes after.

But thats the thing; there's absolutely nothing in the manga indicating Piccolo was there for Gohan outside of training.

There is.

One of my favorite scenes in the manga that involves these two is also one of the most overlooked ones. It's when he destroys cameras all over the tournament grounds specifically to protect Gohan's real identity. Why would someone that lives so far removed from human society care about Gohan's social life and reputation at school? We already know he finds the whole Saiyaman gig ridiculous, but it's important to Gohan, as is school, so he gets involved. These are aspects of Gohan's life that have nothing to do with training or fighting yet he still gets involved. Another thing, Goten seems to know Piccolo well, which implies he comes to visit often enough. We already know Gohan wanted to visit Piccolo after the Cell Saga.

[FoolsGil]

Because for every one example of Goku being a good spouse, there's two more examples of Goku not being a good spouse.

[Arugela]

Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.

When was it said?
Anyway tfs may not create the goku dad thing but they are responsible for adding more fuel to it

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/
My mistake. It wasn't with the editor. But the idea does come up and Toriyama doesn't dispute it, and in a way confirms it.

As much as Goku didn’t do many fatherly things, Piccolo was Gohan’s surrogate father.
Toriyama:
Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, either.

And this was in 2004, I think.

While I think this might be an exaggeration, even if it comes from the author himself, the notion of Goku being too self-absorbed to be a proper family man has been mentioned in official interviews a couple of times, I believe. There was that one with saiyans not usually having parental instincts and such.

And I don't think they added fuel to it, just made it more visible. They might have played a part in spreading the joke, but they sure aren't responsible for it taking off.

The entirety of their marriage involved chi chi as a younger person having to trick goku into marriage. I think jokes about him thinking food was involved were literally part of it in the original dragon ball anime. The rest of their relationship is a continual joke on that origin! The shock of bulma that he grew up and actually had a child. It wasn't a joke. That is his character from the original dragon ball series. He's not skirting around anything when the writers say things. It's completely intentional. It has nothing to do with japanese society. Goku comes from in the woods and a different possibly older societal standpoint. Chi chi comes from an older less woodsie but older chinese type stereotypical city environment. Both very rural and different than from today. You have to look at the difference society took from the original dragon ball and whatnot. Goku thought a car was a monster and didn't know what a girl was at age 13-14 when the show started and he met bulma. There is nothing odd about goku if you watched the original series. And as they said at the start of DBZ he had grown a lot from his origin. And they were not joking. As bad as he is in dbz/s he's nothing compared to how he was in DB.

[Tavarano]

I know it's an in-universe thread, but the way you've structured your question suggests you're looking for out-universe answer so here goes.

That's because Toriyama is an extremely cynical writer and Dragon Ball characters are just dehumanized caricatures. I can give you some more examples of this same style of character writing in Dragon Ball that you can also find in all other Toriyama's mangas.

Roshi more or less sexually assaults Bulma whenever they are together, even though Bulma clearly doesn't like it, she doesn't hold any bad feelings towards him over it.


Goku as he comes back from Yadrat after a year doesn't even acknowledge his son nor any of his friends, yet they do not have any problems with it, this is basically how it plays out.


Gohan being 5 years old at the time should feel uneasy if not scared around Goku after his aggression outburst towards him in saiyan arc, no such thing ever happens.


Kuririn and Gohan see all Dende's friends brutally murdered, few moments later they dance, jump and laugh in front of him.


Yamcha gets beaten up by the mummy and rationally chooses not to die melting in acid, yet his girlfriend Bulma not only doesn't show any support but calls him pathetic over it, it doesn't affect their relationship in any way whatsoever.


Gohan gets arrogant in the fight with Cell, it ends up with Goku dying, he acts the exact same way when put in similar situation in buu arc.

Same goes for Gohan not training leading to everyone dying and not training again, actually his entire personality as an adult is as if his traumatic childhood never happened, see the concept?

This Toriyama's interview answer is pretty clear.

I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about.

Care to elaborate?

Also sorry for no spoilers on pictures but for some reason they don't work at the moment.

[ruler9871]

Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon

This

[Hulk10]

I'd say its a matter of opinion whether or not Goku is an awful husband. What really matters is what his family thinks. And they speak highly of him. That's what matters most.

[Tai Lung]

...Does his family seem to think so highly of him? And why do we have moments like all the links below? Just thinking about how they react to him coming back in the Buu Saga...I dunno, they're rating of Goku seems pretty positive to me:

Chi-Chi is the first one Goku thinks about when neutralizing Beerus's attack

that did not happen in the anime and manga.

Gohan tells Chi-Chi about Goku returning

Chi-Chi fondly remembers marriage, honeymoon, and family life

Everyone flips out when they see Goku at the tournament

I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about. But it still seems like there's an enormous disconnect between Goku's supposed failings and what we're presented with on-screen.

if you want I put links where it says otherwise?

Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?
Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -super-qa/

and he does not kiss his wife either etc etc ...
and in advance I will say that saving the world several times and being a good friend has nothing to do with parental or conjugal responsibility
one can be considered a good person and friend but failing in the family aspect goku is more saiyan than human and barely and had a basic education no one is perfect he does what he enjoys most and although he does not stand out other things was thanks to the martial arts world got what it has because it should change its way of being?
Anyway, even if it is not fault of goku, we would be lying if we said that your marriage is good.

[Hulk10]

Toriyama only said Goku might not have a sense of family. So maybe he does maybe he doesn't. The point is its not Goku's fault as he wasn't raised like most people are. So he doesn't know a lot of things and thus can't be faulted for it.