Wish limitations?

[cheddarsword]

Just curious what the limitations are for Shenron, Porunga and Shenron 2.0 (Dende OS).

Not sure if they're just BS dubisms, anime only or what but I thought they were this:

Shenron:

1 wish.
1 revival per person.
No wish involving power (Please explain this one to me!).
Resurection only works if the death has occurred within the last year.


Porunga:

3 wishes.
1 Person resurrected at a time.


Shenron 2.0 (Dende OS):

2 wishes.
1 revival per person (may have been updated since?)


All:

Nothing beyond the power of a god/the person that created them.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

No wish involving power (Please explain this one to me!)

That one must be from the dub. It certainly isn't in the original story, anyway. We even hear that someone once wished to become King, or something like that.

Resurection only works if the death has occurred within the last year.

Not quite. You can only revive a group if their death has occurred within the last year. For example, assuming Piccolo hadn't died in the Saiyan arc, but they wait 2 years to revive everyone for some reason, you could still revive them one at a time, but the wish "Bring back everyone the Saiyans killed" wouldn't work.

Shenron 2.0 (Dende OS):

2 wishes.
1 revival per person (may have been updated since?)

It's 3 wishes, but if you make a really big wish, such as reviving a large group of people, you only get two. In other words, a wish like this actually takes up two wishes.

As of now, you still can't make the same wish multiple times, meaning no reviving one person twice. However, this rule seems to contradict the idea that Freeza can be revived after the upcoming tournament, so it may change soon.

[GodKaio-Ken]

No wish involving power (Please explain this one to me!)

That one must be from the dub. It certainly isn't in the original story, anyway. We even hear that someone once wished to become King, or something like that.

Resurection only works if the death has occurred within the last year.

Not quite. You can only revive a group if their death has occurred within the last year. For example, assuming Piccolo hadn't died in the Saiyan arc, but they wait 2 years to revive everyone for some reason, you could still revive them one at a time, but the wish "Bring back everyone the Saiyans killed" wouldn't work.

Shenron 2.0 (Dende OS):

2 wishes.
1 revival per person (may have been updated since?)

It's 3 wishes, but if you make a really big wish, such as reviving a large group of people, you only get two. In other words, a wish like this actually takes up two wishes.

As of now, you still can't make the same wish multiple times, meaning no reviving one person twice. However, this rule seems to contradict the idea that Freeza can be revived after the upcoming tournament, so it may change soon.

On the last paragraph:

Yeah its kind of weird. Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

One theory floating around is that Goku did it intentionally knowing it cant be done...or simply forgot.

More on topic: The rest of your post is spot on.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

Some time not long before the Cell Games, it's made clear that you still can't wish someone back twice. If you'll remember, the plan after the Cell Games was to go to Namek and revive Goku with Porunga, but Goku interjected, thinking it would be best if he stayed dead. So yes, we can be fairly certain that you still can't wish for the same thing twice unless this new arc changes that.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

Some time not long before the Cell Games, it's made clear that you still can't wish someone back twice. If you'll remember, the plan after the Cell Games was to go to Namek and revive Goku with Porunga, but Goku interjected, thinking it would be best if he stayed dead. So yes, we can be fairly certain that you still can't wish for the same thing twice unless this new arc changes that.

That is true, slipped my mind. I'm hoping they don't change it because that would be a terrible retcon if they don't explain why it is that way....

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

Some time not long before the Cell Games, it's made clear that you still can't wish someone back twice. If you'll remember, the plan after the Cell Games was to go to Namek and revive Goku with Porunga, but Goku interjected, thinking it would be best if he stayed dead. So yes, we can be fairly certain that you still can't wish for the same thing twice unless this new arc changes that.

That is true, slipped my mind. I'm hoping they don't change it because that would be a terrible retcon if they don't explain why it is that way....

Honestly, it's such a devalued plot device at this point that I don't mind if it goes unexplained. Toriyama already tweaked the RoSaT in a similar way with no explanation, and no one seemed to mind despite it's being far more important than Dragon Balls nowadays.

[cheddarsword]

No wish involving power (Please explain this one to me!)

That one must be from the dub. It certainly isn't in the original story, anyway. We even hear that someone once wished to become King, or something like that.

Resurection only works if the death has occurred within the last year.

Not quite. You can only revive a group if their death has occurred within the last year. For example, assuming Piccolo hadn't died in the Saiyan arc, but they wait 2 years to revive everyone for some reason, you could still revive them one at a time, but the wish "Bring back everyone the Saiyans killed" wouldn't work.

Shenron 2.0 (Dende OS):

2 wishes.
1 revival per person (may have been updated since?)

It's 3 wishes, but if you make a really big wish, such as reviving a large group of people, you only get two. In other words, a wish like this actually takes up two wishes.

As of now, you still can't make the same wish multiple times, meaning no reviving one person twice. However, this rule seems to contradict the idea that Freeza can be revived after the upcoming tournament, so it may change soon.

On the last paragraph:

Yeah its kind of weird. Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

One theory floating around is that Goku did it intentionally knowing it cant be done...or simply forgot.

More on topic: The rest of your post is spot on.

I thought I had seen a page of the manga where they tried to wish Goku back after the cell games but Shenron said it couldn't be done because he'd already been wished back?

Though it is possible that the limitation has been removed since.

Also, is it possible to work around the restriction somehow?

[GodKaio-Ken]

That one must be from the dub. It certainly isn't in the original story, anyway. We even hear that someone once wished to become King, or something like that.

Not quite. You can only revive a group if their death has occurred within the last year. For example, assuming Piccolo hadn't died in the Saiyan arc, but they wait 2 years to revive everyone for some reason, you could still revive them one at a time, but the wish "Bring back everyone the Saiyans killed" wouldn't work.

It's 3 wishes, but if you make a really big wish, such as reviving a large group of people, you only get two. In other words, a wish like this actually takes up two wishes.

As of now, you still can't make the same wish multiple times, meaning no reviving one person twice. However, this rule seems to contradict the idea that Freeza can be revived after the upcoming tournament, so it may change soon.

On the last paragraph:

Yeah its kind of weird. Do we have a scene where Dende SAYS its still the same in that regard?

One theory floating around is that Goku did it intentionally knowing it cant be done...or simply forgot.

More on topic: The rest of your post is spot on.

I thought I had seen a page of the manga where they tried to wish Goku back after the cell games but Shenron said it couldn't be done because he'd already been wished back?

Though it is possible that the limitation has been removed since.

Also, is it possible to work around the restriction somehow?

You could MAYBE wish to bring someones dead body to Earth for an unlimited amount of time? Not sure if that would or wouldnt work as technically you arent bringing them back to life.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I thought I had seen a page of the manga where they tried to wish Goku back after the cell games but Shenron said it couldn't be done because he'd already been wished back?

Though it is possible that the limitation has been removed since.

There's no reason to think it's gone, but Super will let us know by the end of the tournament. Unless they do resurrect Freeza with Earth's Dragon Balls again, it's best to assume that those rules are still in place.

Also, is it possible to work around the restriction somehow?

The only workarounds that have been suggested in-universe are either bypassing Shenron in favor of Porunga, or undergoing a temporary resurrection with the help of Baba.

[cheddarsword]

I thought I had seen a page of the manga where they tried to wish Goku back after the cell games but Shenron said it couldn't be done because he'd already been wished back?

Though it is possible that the limitation has been removed since.

There's no reason to think it's gone, but Super will let us know by the end of the tournament. Unless they do resurrect Freeza with Earth's Dragon Balls again, it's best to assume that those rules are still in place.

Also, is it possible to work around the restriction somehow?

The only workarounds that have been suggested in-universe are either bypassing Shenron in favor of Porunga, or undergoing a temporary resurrection with the help of Baba.

What about resurrection by proxy? "Bring back all members of Frieza's race that I've killed!" for instance?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

"Bring back all members of Frieza's race that I've killed!" for instance?

After the Cell Games, the group's first wish to Shenlong was "Bring back everyone that Cell killed", it still didn't revive Goku. There doesn't seem to be any way to have Shenlong restore a person twice.

[cheddarsword]

"Bring back all members of Frieza's race that I've killed!" for instance?

After the Cell Games, the group's first wish to Shenlong was "Bring back everyone that Cell killed", it still didn't revive Goku. There doesn't seem to be any way to have Shenlong restore a person twice.

Hmm... perhaps using one wish to be allowed to do it and then a second to actually bring them back?

Or perhaps using the power of all wishes in one (making it one giant wish) to bring them back?

These of course are untested ground and there's no way of knowing if they would work.

But if there truly is no way to use the earth DBs to wish him back, then i wonder if the same limitations are placed on the Namekian dragon balls? Guess it wouldn't matter in Frieza's case, but for Tien and the like it would be problematic.

Problem would be getting the Namekians to be okay with resurrecting Freeza of all people! "Goku, are you f***ing crazy? There's no way in hell I'll ask Porunga to grant that wish!"

At any rate, it seems there's no definitive way to get Shenron to grant "infinite lives". Heh, guess Action Replays and Game Genies are more powerful than Shenron!

Seriously though, Dende needs to get on making a new dragon and put Shenron to bed.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

But if there truly is no way to use the earth DBs to wish him back, then i wonder if the same limitations are placed on the Namekian dragon balls?

Namekian Dragon Balls can wish people back as many times as they need to, and at the end of the Boo Arc, they're also upgraded to revive many people at once.

[Darkprince410]

Hmm... perhaps using one wish to be allowed to do it and then a second to actually bring them back?

Or perhaps using the power of all wishes in one (making it one giant wish) to bring them back?

Shenlon didn't suggest that the wish was just beyond his power or anything like that, which would be the case if it just required more energy than he had allotted, but that it was simply impossible due to him having already brought Goku back once before, indicating it's still the hard cap on revival.

[Lionel]

Wishing for more wishes sounds like it would be an obvious restriction. What about destruction of the universe? It doesn't have to include its inhabitants, just the planets and space. Stopping time might be another impossibility -- uncertain about accelerating or reversing it. Manipulating the minds of beings? Has moreso to do with strength of character than quantitative power.

[arromdee]

Doesn't the dragon from the Black Star dragonballs have fewer limitations? The wiki says that Ultimate Shenron can grant any wishes, which I am skeptical of, but he probably is less limited than the one from the standard Dragonballs.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Doesn't the dragon from the Black Star dragonballs have fewer limitations? The wiki says that Ultimate Shenron can grant any wishes, which I am skeptical of, but he probably is less limited than the one from the standard Dragonballs.

They're twice as powerful as Earth's Dragon Balls, and of course they have the limitation of bestowing impending doom being onto whatever planet they're used on. There may have been other allusions to the possibilities, but basically, we have no idea how strong they are in a canonical sense.