Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

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Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by KBABZ » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:41 am

Thought this would make for an interesting topic! The idea is that we post thought experiments and logic bombs on a more technical level than in What If.

My example is: If you put the Dragon Balls inside a Capsule, would the Dragon Radar detect them?

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by mallaard » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:37 am

KBABZ wrote:Thought this would make for an interesting topic! The idea is that we post thought experiments and logic bombs on a more technical level than in What If.

My example is: If you put the Dragon Balls inside a Capsule, would the Dragon Radar detect them?
I like this sort of stuff. Dragon balls in a capsule? I don't see why you can't do that, but I don't see why a dragon radar wouldn't detect them. I know Pilaf had a special box made early in the series that would hide the balls' energy signature, but I don't imagine capsules have that same effect. Having all 7 in one capsule would sure make somebody happy to find it!

I have a thought...if Krillin ever got really desperate to power up and be more useful to everyone, could he wish for the dragon to turn him into a Saiyan? It doesn't seem like too hard a thing for the dragon to do. At the very least that would increase Krillin's upper potential limit. But if you consider that Krillin is already outrageously strong by human standards, would that translate into him automatically becoming an outrageously strong Saiyan, maybe even putting him into Super Saiyan territory? Or would he just be the same but with better potential?

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by KBABZ » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:38 pm

mallaard wrote:I like this sort of stuff. Dragon balls in a capsule? I don't see why you can't do that, but I don't see why a dragon radar wouldn't detect them. I know Pilaf had a special box made early in the series that would hide the balls' energy signature, but I don't imagine capsules have that same effect. Having all 7 in one capsule would sure make somebody happy to find it!
If all seven were gathered in a Capsule, if you summoned Shenron would he be inside the Capsule or would be burst it open?

I think the Capsules may have some form of radiation shielding on the inside for some of the more extreme things you might want to put in a Capsule, which would have the effect of concealing the energy that Dragon Radars use to ping their location. On the subject, how exactly does one put something inside a Capsule to begin with? We see with things like the House in Chapter 2 and the Cryopods for Krillin, Roshi and Chiaotzu that objects can have buttons on them for putting them into Capsule mode. But how exactly did Bulma's dad put all the porn mags inside his Capsule?
mallaard wrote:I have a thought...if Krillin ever got really desperate to power up and be more useful to everyone, could he wish for the dragon to turn him into a Saiyan? It doesn't seem like too hard a thing for the dragon to do. At the very least that would increase Krillin's upper potential limit. But if you consider that Krillin is already outrageously strong by human standards, would that translate into him automatically becoming an outrageously strong Saiyan, maybe even putting him into Super Saiyan territory? Or would he just be the same but with better potential?
Given that this is Dragon Ball, I would imagine that he would get a powerup that would make him at the very least competitive with Gohan, similar to the Grand Elder's powerup for him on Namek. Now of course, what he'd look like while Super Saiyan gets into the all-time Ur example of Dragon Ball logic bombs: Nappa as Super Saiyan 3. Personally I think that, given that Nappa used to have hair as seen in the Bardock Special, he would simply grow his hair back which would then be extended as per normal.

---

One of the other things I thought of was this: when Bulma and Roshi summoned Shenron, Oolong suggests that they simply ask him to kill the Saiyans, to which Shenron replies that the Saiyans are beyond his power. Now, given that they know they're travelling through space, if they instead asked Shenron to blow up their space pods, would that have worked instead? Space Pods aren't beyond his power, and they can reasonably assume that they can't survive in space!

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:04 am

KBABZ wrote:
mallaard wrote: ---
One of the other things I thought of was this: when Bulma and Roshi summoned Shenron, Oolong suggests that they simply ask him to kill the Saiyans, to which Shenron replies that the Saiyans are beyond his power. Now, given that they know they're travelling through space, if they instead asked Shenron to blow up their space pods, would that have worked instead? Space Pods aren't beyond his power, and they can reasonably assume that they can't survive in space!
I always just assumed that they never thought of that at the time.
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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by KBABZ » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:20 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
mallaard wrote: ---
One of the other things I thought of was this: when Bulma and Roshi summoned Shenron, Oolong suggests that they simply ask him to kill the Saiyans, to which Shenron replies that the Saiyans are beyond his power. Now, given that they know they're travelling through space, if they instead asked Shenron to blow up their space pods, would that have worked instead? Space Pods aren't beyond his power, and they can reasonably assume that they can't survive in space!
I always just assumed that they never thought of that at the time.
Same here, especially since it wouldn't have occurred to them that they were traveling via spaceship, but still, fun idea to think of since that would basically skip the entire Raditz and Frieza sagas (no reason to go to Namek to resurrect Yamcha and co., and Frieza won't go there because he won't overhear about them from Vegeta). You basically get 5+ years of peace for Gohan to study until the Androids show up.

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by mallaard » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:46 pm

KBABZ wrote:
mallaard wrote:I like this sort of stuff. Dragon balls in a capsule? I don't see why you can't do that, but I don't see why a dragon radar wouldn't detect them. I know Pilaf had a special box made early in the series that would hide the balls' energy signature, but I don't imagine capsules have that same effect. Having all 7 in one capsule would sure make somebody happy to find it!
If all seven were gathered in a Capsule, if you summoned Shenron would he be inside the Capsule or would be burst it open?

I think the Capsules may have some form of radiation shielding on the inside for some of the more extreme things you might want to put in a Capsule, which would have the effect of concealing the energy that Dragon Radars use to ping their location. On the subject, how exactly does one put something inside a Capsule to begin with? We see with things like the House in Chapter 2 and the Cryopods for Krillin, Roshi and Chiaotzu that objects can have buttons on them for putting them into Capsule mode. But how exactly did Bulma's dad put all the porn mags inside his Capsule?

I looked online for any good science articles that might suggest how real-life shrinking of things might be possible, but most of the answers seem to point to it not being possible. The simplest idea I found is that since an atom is 99% empty space, one could simply condense the neutrons, electrons, and whatnot inside the atom to make it more compact. However that seems to make things much denser. I don't really know how it all works, but supposedly shrinking matter to a tiny size like this would make it weigh tons and tons. I guess in Dragon World, Dr. Briefs found a way to condense matter without increasing its mass. Which means for Dragon Balls to be capsulized, I guess some amount of their innate energy would have to be dispersed to allow their atoms to be condensed. Either this might reduce or eliminate their energy signature, or else it would be impossible because of their magical nature (making it impossible to alter their power structure, thus making it impossible to condense them). That's the best answer I could BS using my very limited knowledge of physics. So yeah, if they could be capsulized, their energy signature probably would either shrink or disappear until they are un-capsulized.

Going by that logic however, I guess it would be impossible to summon Shenron while the balls are within the capsule since their innate energy would have to be dispelled in order to condense them in the first place.

---

One of the other things I thought of was this: when Bulma and Roshi summoned Shenron, Oolong suggests that they simply ask him to kill the Saiyans, to which Shenron replies that the Saiyans are beyond his power. Now, given that they know they're travelling through space, if they instead asked Shenron to blow up their space pods, would that have worked instead? Space Pods aren't beyond his power, and they can reasonably assume that they can't survive in space!
Yeah, I think wishing for their spacecraft to be destroyed would have worked. Saiyans certainly need air to breathe! At first I had no idea why Shenron would be incapable of destroying the Saiyans directly, but having just read the early parts of the manga where Piccolo Daimaoh kills Shenron with a mouth beam, I guess it stands to reason that Vegeta and Nappa really would be much stronger than Shenron and therefore beyond his power to kill directly.

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by KBABZ » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:55 pm

mallaard wrote:Yeah, I think wishing for their spacecraft to be destroyed would have worked. Saiyans certainly need air to breathe! At first I had no idea why Shenron would be incapable of destroying the Saiyans directly, but having just read the early parts of the manga where Piccolo Daimaoh kills Shenron with a mouth beam, I guess it stands to reason that Vegeta and Nappa really would be much stronger than Shenron and therefore beyond his power to kill directly.
AKA quick, think of a reason why they can't wish them away so they can fight!

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by flashback0180 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:33 pm

Sure, the capcel is just a box that shrinks stuff , it can't nullify energy signals emitted by the Dragon balls( unless bulma explicitly designs for it) normal one's can't.

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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Here's one: When Piccolo used his island destroying attack in the 23rd Budokai, if instead of firing it in a huge explosion in every direction at once, he had concentrated all of it directly in Goku's direction, would he have won?
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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:57 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Here's one: When Piccolo used his island destroying attack in the 23rd Budokai, if instead of firing it in a huge explosion in every direction at once, he had concentrated all of it directly in Goku's direction, would he have won?
Maybe? If I remember correctly Goku tank a single super blast from Piccolo and was very damanged, trying to tank dozens would be overkill to Goku.

Here I have one: If a Saiyan pod falls on Earth and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? :o :lol: 8)
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Re: Thought Experiments and Logic Bombs

Post by KBABZ » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:31 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Here's one: When Piccolo used his island destroying attack in the 23rd Budokai, if instead of firing it in a huge explosion in every direction at once, he had concentrated all of it directly in Goku's direction, would he have won?
Probably! I still have no idea HOW Puar managed to survive that thing.

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