Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

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Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:17 am

Just because Goku seems to be repeating the result of the Namek battle?
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Smilodon » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:39 am

It's early to talk...But I think Ultra Instinct it's not a form, it's a technique. With it, every part of you body would move independently...

Goku's new form it's more like limit break or something like this...Or he only absorbed the Genki dama energy and got that form...
Maybe he was on pair with SSJB + x20 KK, but with those moves, so he could fought Jiren (even being weaker than him).
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Duo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:55 pm

Considering it has nothing to do with the prior transformations, it is very doubtful that a straightforward figure like that will ever exist. It wouldn't make sense for the two to correspond.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by MrUnusual » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:22 pm

Not sure if it is stronger as much as it is faster, but I have my own theory on what it is he did exactly, not sure if you guys would agree, I posted it in a new thread I made earlier today, I think what he did was use the spirit energy he obtained for power, speed and stamina, but in regards to skill and technique, in order to use ultra instinct, the mind has to be clear of all thoughts, the body will instinctively react to all attacks like muscle memory in a way, an instantaneous, un-thought reaction. It's strange that Goku was able to as that power should have had nothing to do with concentration and clearing the mind. I think it was because his mind was clear, it's possible that he could have even been technically dead at the time and his entire body was being possessed by spirit energy. In terms of strength though, spirit energy is technically limitless, so he can use it to be more powerful than his other forms I suppose. I can't wait to see him do it again so that I can get a better understanding of the energy

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:07 pm

I doubt it's a straight power multiplier like that.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Arugela » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:34 am

I'm assuming it's like a dodge chance multiplier, but cranked way up!
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:25 am

Nothing implies Ultra Instinct to be specifically that much stronger than SSJB. And quite frankly, I think Dragon Ball shouldn't dip its toe into multipliers again. It'll just bring more unnecessary debates and quarreling among the fandom.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:27 am

I'd bet my right arm it is, they made Jiren vs Goku too much of a Namek throwback for that not to be the case.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by TheMikado » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:28 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Nothing implies Ultra Instinct to be specifically that much stronger than SSJB. And quite frankly, I think Dragon Ball shouldn't dip its toe into multipliers again. It'll just bring more unnecessary debates and quarreling among the fandom.
And this is exactly why the power escalation in Dragonball needs to end.
Problem is the anime pretty much shows Goku as being more powerful with the way he tanks Toppo's attacks.
I don't think that was the intent of the form but the writers/animators misunderstanding the form.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:02 pm

it's implied it's not just UI. It's possibly another form he's unlocked and can't access it fully cause his body isn't powered up at max. Whis notes the heat coming from his body at the very end and it felt ominous a bit or just something mysterious. UI is definitely not a power multiplier, but from the type of technique it is, seems like it would be able to let you use your power at max without any mental barriers getting in the way allowing you to fight in your best form possible. that combined with a god level Spirit Bomb and possibly higher definitely helped Goku
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Xeztin » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:24 pm

I’m not sure about it but I think the process is repeating. You have a base like state, SSG then he goes SSJB. You have yet again, a base like state and then we’ll probably get SSJ Red. I always say wait till it appears in the manga as Toyotaro tries to explain things even if it doesn’t make sense. Toei might not ever explain it other than he learned to move without thinking. Which in my opinion wouldn’t justify his state.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:21 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Nothing implies Ultra Instinct to be specifically that much stronger than SSJB. And quite frankly, I think Dragon Ball shouldn't dip its toe into multipliers again. It'll just bring more unnecessary debates and quarreling among the fandom.
And this is exactly why the power escalation in Dragonball needs to end.
It already ended. Fans are the ones that don't let it go.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:17 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Nothing implies Ultra Instinct to be specifically that much stronger than SSJB.
Well, nevermind how Goku was dodging Jiren's attacks thanks to Ultra Instict, but their punches were clashing with equal strength, while Goku couldn't even scratch Jiren with SSBKKx20 & the U7 Genki Dama. I won't say that it is x50 stronger, but Goku definitely became massively stronger.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Meshack » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:20 pm

Migattenogokui is not an ability like Super Saiyan is so there’s no multiplier. Migattenogokui is a technique and any one who uses it can defeat their opponent. In the fight between Gokuh and Jiren, Gokuh was in a different state while using Migattenogokui due to the Genkidama.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:46 pm

The way I see it:

SSB Goku= 1x
Kaio-Ken x20= 20x
Spirit Bomb >> 20x

According to Whis, Goku attained his UI form by breaking the "shell" to his deeper potential after he collides with the Universe 7's Spirit Bomb, and not just because he absorbed the Spirit Bomb itself.
So, UI Goku > Spirit Bomb + Kaio-Ken x20

Ultra Instinct should be much stronger than 50x SSB going by this. Perhaps a 100x multiplier would make more sense (It lines up with the opening saying some stuff about getting a hundred times stronger, too).
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by Desassina » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:13 pm

If Goku was brought to that level, then don't expect it to be a static multiplier, but his regular state to have increased. He got his potential unlocked with a cool aura for the episode to be simplified in the future. The increase won't repeat itself, but it was definitely higher than the Genki-dama, so putting it at 50x to mimic the documented SSJ multiplier on Namek seems fine. My guess is that he's now 100 times weaker than the limit that he just broke.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:07 am

It's at least 50x. Goku's version of ultra instinct is a form versus a technique or he was using ultra instinct and a new form.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by hunduel » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:43 pm

theherodjl wrote:Just because Goku seems to be repeating the result of the Namek battle?
My headcanon is that Ultra Instinct is the first technique which is not a multiplier, but rather an "access to collective unconscious" in a way that their body is moving so naturally that they doesn't even have to think about it. They give up control in order for greater power. What does it mean? That it does provide a fixed amount of power level.

Which means that this is the reason why Goku's so much stronger now than by using his current ultimate form (and ironically, still is equal with someone who is also suggested of using UI). Not just that, but it also implies something else: that if Vegeta obtains this "form", then he'd be completely equal to Goku. Heck, if someone else (even the humans) learn it, they all would have been equal.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by wolflonnie » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:27 pm

What if it's a potential unleash, like SSJ4, rather than a multiplier? Would make the most sense.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct 50x Stronger Than SSJB?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:50 am

wolflonnie wrote:What if it's a potential unleash, like SSJ4, rather than a multiplier? Would make the most sense.
All the Saiyan transformations draw out dormant powers, they are not literal multipliers. For example, Super Saiyan draws out dormant powers that are 50 times greater than the Saiyan's normal power, it doesn't multiply the normal power by x50.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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