If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:33 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Either make Goku stop getting new forms and just improve the ones he has already, or give more non-Saiyan characters new forms.
This is a really good one. I think had Toriyama not given Ssj2 and 3 those numbered names but instead had them be some kind of completed Ssj1 then we most likely wouldn't have gotten anything after but once you start numbering something you can go on forever with it which is what we've been doing.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:57 pm

sintzu wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Either make Goku stop getting new forms and just improve the ones he has already, or give more non-Saiyan characters new forms.
This is a really good one. I think had Toriyama not given Ssj2 and 3 those numbered names but instead had them be some kind of completed Ssj1 then we most likely wouldn't have gotten anything after but once you start numbering something you can go on forever with it which is what we've been doing.
Yeah, before Super Saiyan 3 was introduced, the level Gohan reached at the Cell Games was pretty much "ultimate mastery of Super Saiyan". I feel like it might've been more satisfying if there weren't any more Super Saiyan forms beyond that.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:19 pm

TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:The level Gohan reached at the Cell Games was pretty much "ultimate mastery of Super Saiyan". I feel like it might've been more satisfying if there weren't any more Super Saiyan forms beyond that.
During the Cell games it wasn't a "new" form but just Gohan's full power unlocked through Ssj. I love Ssj3 but I agree things would've been better if it didn't happen cause if they wanted to move forward they wouldn't be able to rely on forms like they do now.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:19 am

I would change Toriyama writing Lunch and Upa out of the story to turning them into more major characters along the same lines as Bulma and Kurilin, respectively.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Zeru14 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:51 am

Introduce the Red-Eyed form for Namekians and have Piccolo obtain it.

Have Yamcha learn Kaioken while on King Kai's planet in the Frieza Saga and after being resurrected teach it to Krillin in the Android Saga, and at some point have Good Buu learn the Kaioken via his copy ability after watching Yamcha or Krillin use it.

Have Tien unlock the unknown powers of his third eye.

Chiaotzu doesn't get sidelined and continues to improve his psychic abilities to make up for his weak body.

Continue the usage of Lunch and have her wear Tien down and marry him.

Have Tarble and Tights make more appearances, and have Tarble trained by Vegeta in the Time Chamber, to learn Ki Sense and SSJ.

Have Old Kai unlock the potential of Kid Trunks and Goten, resulting in Ultimate Kid Trunks, Ultimate Goten and therefore Ultimate Gotenks.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MR.Mark » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:52 am

Even though I'd miss the cool scouters, I'd rather battle powers and any form of mathematics put on strength was never introduced. It's done more harm than good.

Also, have Lunch be a constant companion to Tenshinhan along with Chiaotzu.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MajinMan » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:12 am

MR.Mark wrote:Even though I'd miss the cool scouters, I'd rather battle powers and any form of mathematics put on strength was never introduced. It's done more harm than good.

Also, have Lunch be a constant companion to Tenshinhan along with Chiaotzu.
It's basically the reason for the whole "Goku is 1,789,234 times stronger than he was 3 arcs ago" debates. These arguments would never exist if the characters never had explicit numbers placed on to them. It's sad how Toriyama introduced this fun little gimmick and the fans just took it to an extreme.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:28 am

MajinMan wrote:It's basically the reason for the whole "Goku is 1,789,234 times stronger than he was 3 arcs ago" debates. These arguments would never exist if the characters never had explicit numbers placed on to them. It's sad how Toriyama introduced this fun little gimmick and the fans just took it to an extreme.
Especially since, time and again, the characters routinely state AND prove that their power levels don't matter and you can't trust a numerical reading. The reason why Power Level debates have extremely pedantic listings like "Goku under some stress after Raditz ate his dim sum" is because their power levels change. And hey guess what, Frieza gave Goku a run for his money and he can't even sense power levels that's how irrelevant it is.

Anyway, back on topic, I can't believe it took me this long to realize it, but I'd get rid of the raunchy humour used early on and with Roshi overall. Of all the things in Dragon Ball, that probably pushes the most people away and ages the franchise in a profoundly negative way.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:48 am

MajinMan wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:Even though I'd miss the cool scouters, I'd rather battle powers and any form of mathematics put on strength was never introduced. It's done more harm than good.

Also, have Lunch be a constant companion to Tenshinhan along with Chiaotzu.
It's basically the reason for the whole "Goku is 1,789,234 times stronger than he was 3 arcs ago" debates. These arguments would never exist if the characters never had explicit numbers placed on to them. It's sad how Toriyama introduced this fun little gimmick and the fans just took it to an extreme.
Toriyama really fucked himself the moment he made Freeza utter "530,000", never mind being over 1 million later. Vegeta's battle/healing gains lost all credibility the moment he was able to put up a fight with 530,000 Freeza, then Piccolo getting ludicrous gains to battle a over 1 million Freeza.

Freeza being able to able to mathematically count his own battle power up to 100% was also dumb even though it was done for drama reasons.

The numbers really became worthless and nonsensical very quickly and Toriyama dropped it for a good reason. It was just a fun gimmick in the end that was dropped because it no longer served a purpose.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:09 pm

I also kinda think the DBZ Trading Card game has an impact on sustaining Power Level culture, since it uses them as part of the gameplay and they sometimes line up to something people might confuse for being accurate (with the video games also sustaining it as well as part of presentational gameplay). Which isn't the best way to go about it because for the trading card game the numbers are adjusted for balancing, so sometimes you get a Majin Vegeta who tops out at 2.8m and then another who can only go up to 1.8m.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by TheZFighter » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:05 pm

For the most part I'd just be content with the original characters featuring more prominently. I'm a big fan of the original team, Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu and, to a lesser extent, Yajirobe, with Bulma, Oolong, Puar, Roshi, Launch and Chi-Chi as supporting characters, often useful off the battlefield. I'd just like those original guys to all be more involved throughout, like the Straw Hat Pirates in One Piece, because they mean so much to me. Find good ways for the Earthlings to keep up, particularly Krillin and Tien. Then you throw in the likes of Piccolo, Gohan, Vegeta, 18, Trunks, Goten, Buu, etc.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Namekian Fuse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:48 pm

I would keep all of the warrior friends that Goku has made since the beginning of the Dragon Ball series relatively close in power levels. The difference in power levels is too ridiculously extreme.

I would also keep the Namekians relevant as they are the makers of the "Dragon Balls" in which the show is named after.

I would revisit the idea of Piccolo and Kami being fused to oneness. Piccolo was born from an egg that the Demon Piccolo spit from his mouth on his death. I've always looked at Piccolo as an offspring of the Demon King Piccolo and not the reincarnation of him. Suppose the Demon King Piccolo was somehow resurrected with all of Piccolo's deaths and reimergences, and was around somewhere biding his time plotting his revenge...hmmm.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MR.Mark » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:01 pm

I just realized I made a topic similar to this, my bad, I'll post my thoughts here aswell.

Piccolo is one of the greatest evil for the sake of it characters. Toriyama makes it work because beyond being evil, we actually see Piccolo do interesting stuff. Like overthrow the king and change laws etc. However, with the reborn Piccolo, I'm not buying it. Just like how you could argue Perfect Cell's evilness was tacked on, I feel Piccolo jr was the same.

It wasn't terrible, just not necessary, especially knowing the Piccolo he became. it's odd because the moment the reborn Piccolo is introduced you'd think he wasn't necessarily evil to begin with. From his more handsome face, to his iconic cape and headgear, Piccolo from the get go looked like a noble warrior.

This is a case where events in the story at the tournament more or less can play out the same, just with some tweaks. Piccolo could simply have a desire to want Goku dead out of pure revenge, no tacked on world conquest or mustache twirling. Just a tough bastard that when defeated buggers off to meditate in the desert. He eventually gets his blood lust out of his system by killing Goku during his sacrifice to Raditz. With that out of his system, the subtle journey to becoming good begins. Beyond wanting Goku dead ol Ma JR's evil intentions should of been left mysterious and vague. Less is more in his case.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:40 pm

I wouldn't have Raditz get killed off in just 5 episodes, and he would stay as a main character, because you know, he's literally Goku's brother. Also, I would've had he and Launch become a couple, because you know, Tenshinhan wasn't interested in romance, according to Toriyama.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MR.Mark » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:07 pm

There's a lot of things that could be altered in the Cell arc to make it seem a little less made up as it went along, partly due to Toriyama's editors.

Again, there is an advantage at times when you know the story in advance.

How about having 17 and 18 just activated in the main time line? That way they're more mysterious and we're not left with a evil 17 and 18 from Trunk's timeline, that are more evil, because...yeah it's just random.

Have 19 and 20 be the ones that Trunks ultimately goes back to and destroys for good along with Cell. Also for an added variety, have Trunks's conversation with Goku be spied on by one of Gero's robot drones.

Gero then in response to this threat makes extra ,less powerful androids for Yamcha and the others to deal with while also giving some consequences to Trunk's actions.

Krillin's decision to not destroy 18 would have a little more weight to it if we see him find out about her being kidnapped and being turned into a cyborg.

I'd make Cell a more calm villain. Being an artificial life form, you could make him simply not understand certain emotions. He can still understand what he is doing is wrong, but coldly aknowledge he must be the strongest, and when he achieves that, life is pointless, so he will destroy the universe. The times he get's the occasional beat down from characters he can act more confused over why it's happening rather than the typical apeshit response. He could also hint at a possibility of knowing of the multiverse and moving on to challenge any potential powerful beings when he's done with Earth.

Image n how even more creepy first form Cell would be if he didn't do any typical maniacal laughs and such. Being to the point with his mission with the occasional BUEEEEE! sound, he'd be really scary.

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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:20 pm

If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be ?

I'll remove the Toninjinka thing and his gang he add just a stupid thing that later do problem (Goku goes to the moon)

I'll make sure all friends Goku made keep in touch with him and make Yamcha train with Goku & Kuririn and make sure their skill and power follow up until the Saiyan Saga.

In the Saiyan Saga, perhaps makes Raditz survive and make him live with the Z-Warrior and makes him do the sacrifice to unleash SSJ2 Gohan against Cell. So Goku and Raditz would train together in Heaven and Android 16 survive too.

Perhaps add a Saga on Yardrat for Goku and in parallel a Saga focus on Vegeta and Raditz in space (because they will search for Goku), oh turn the movie Garlic Jr into a real canonique Saga, so the second coming of Garlic Jr makes sens.

For the Majin Buu Saga I don't see much. As for the whole Dragon Ball Super that's just niptick except for the end of the Zamasu Saga, I'll Make the Universe of Trunks survive and make revive the Goku of his timeline throught the stolen body of Black.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Zillamon51 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:01 pm

Super-timely suggestion: Delete all of the Yamoshi / midichlorian nonsense Toriyama spewed out recently. A perfect case of ruining something intentionally mysterious with retro-over-explanation.

And staple his mouth shut just in case.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:56 pm

I'd make SS1 be the one and only Saiyan transformation to exist.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by Miracles » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:09 pm

Piccolo and Tenshinhan would of continued to be relevant as strong fighters.
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Re: If you had the chance to change something in dragon ball what would it be?

Post by MR.Mark » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:11 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:I'd make SS1 be the one and only Saiyan transformation to exist.
I'd be down with that, with enough tweaks to the plot you could make Gohan's SSJ2 be his SSJ1. This would get rid of all those stupid grades aswell.

Although once we get to God ki, I'd make Goku not get skinny. His red hair form would simply be the power of god in base, so it would be called Saiyan God. Then the Blue would be Super Saiyan God.

That's all I got for now because we don't know where Ultra Instinct is going yet.

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