How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

dragonball0900
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:47 pm

How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by dragonball0900 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:48 pm

I know there's no exact multiplier for the SSJ God transformation. But what would the boost for SSJ Blue from SSJ God be?

In the manga there's an statement during the U6 arc that SSJ God Goku is stronger than a less than 10% SSJ Blue Vegeta. So is the SSJ Blue 10 times stronger than SSJ God? Or is it less, maybe 5 times stronger or something like that?

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:26 pm

Blue being 10x God is numerically impossible. SSJ Goku outperformed a <10% SSJB Vegeta against Hit.

1.25-2x. No reason to bloat things to be fair. Also, Vegeta was able to defend himself from Black using God but was unable to one shot him in Blue. Blue Goku also failed to one shot Hit, who was roughly on God Goku's level.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:45 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Blue being 10x God is numerically impossible. SSJ Goku outperformed a <10% SSJB Vegeta against Hit.

1.25-2x. No reason to bloat things to be fair. Also, Vegeta was able to defend himself from Black using God but was unable to one shot him in Blue. Blue Goku also failed to one shot Hit, who was roughly on God Goku's level.
That's only in the manga. In the anime God Goku was getting stomped by Base Kefla whereas SSBlue Goku was keeping pace with SSJ Kefla who was confirmed by Champa to have a much bigger boost than normal SSJs.

User avatar
Berserker1921
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:46 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by Berserker1921 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:36 pm

I have ssjblue maybe 1.5-2x stronger then god. I have ssjgod to be a 25,000x boost and ssjblue about 27,000-30,000x boost. It's bigger but not that much bigger.

User avatar
Black Hawk
Regular
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:09 pm
Location: Beacon Academy

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:46 pm

As the movies and manga, unlike the anime, haven't contradicted Toriyama's 6-10-15 scale, I place Super Saiyajin Blue at a 7.5 (making it 1.25x stronger than Red) and completed Super Saiyajin Blue at a 9 (making it 1.5x stronger than Red and 1.2x stronger than Blue).
"Reign supreme? In your dreams; you'll never make me bow.
Kick my ass? I'm world-class and Super Saiyan now."

I BURN - Jeff Williams feat. Casey Lee Williams, RWBY Volume 1 Soundtrack

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:34 pm

Black Hawk wrote:As the movies and manga, unlike the anime, haven't contradicted Toriyama's 6-10-15 scale, I place Super Saiyajin Blue at a 7.5 (making it 1.25x stronger than Red) and completed Super Saiyajin Blue at a 9 (making it 1.5x stronger than Red and 1.2x stronger than Blue).
I think the gap between CSSB and SSB ought to be bigger than the gap between SSG & SSB. Also, 9's too close to Beerus, he proved that he can still oneshot CSSBs if he gets serious.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Here's my unrevised numbers from the U6 tournament arc(manga):

SSJG – 8.000.000
SSJB – 12.000.000

This is purely guess work. We know SSJG is above 10% Blue and that's it. However due to the regularity of it's use I argue that it can't be that much weaker than Blue. Basically my approach is weaker but still relevant. Vegeta use of the technique against Blue supports this view, if it was that much weaker than Black could probably blitz Vegeta, making it impossible for him to attack/defend in Blue.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:30 pm

LightBing wrote:Here's my unrevised numbers from the U6 tournament arc(manga):

SSJG – 8.000.000
SSJB – 12.000.000

This is purely guess work. We know SSJG is above 10% Blue and that's it. However due to the regularity of it's use I argue that it can't be that much weaker than Blue. Basically my approach is weaker but still relevant. Vegeta use of the technique against Blue supports this view, if it was that much weaker than Black could probably blitz Vegeta, making it impossible for him to attack/defend in Blue.
What scale is that?

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:39 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote:Here's my unrevised numbers from the U6 tournament arc(manga):

SSJG – 8.000.000
SSJB – 12.000.000

This is purely guess work. We know SSJG is above 10% Blue and that's it. However due to the regularity of it's use I argue that it can't be that much weaker than Blue. Basically my approach is weaker but still relevant. Vegeta use of the technique against Blue supports this view, if it was that much weaker than Black could probably blitz Vegeta, making it impossible for him to attack/defend in Blue.
What scale is that?
I gave Beerus arbitrarily the 100.000.000 number and everybody else is in comparison to him.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:42 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote:Here's my unrevised numbers from the U6 tournament arc(manga):

SSJG – 8.000.000
SSJB – 12.000.000

This is purely guess work. We know SSJG is above 10% Blue and that's it. However due to the regularity of it's use I argue that it can't be that much weaker than Blue. Basically my approach is weaker but still relevant. Vegeta use of the technique against Blue supports this view, if it was that much weaker than Black could probably blitz Vegeta, making it impossible for him to attack/defend in Blue.
What scale is that?
I gave Beerus arbitrarily the 100.000.000 number and everybody else is in comparison to him.
Those zeroes don't seem to be useful at all, though. You could just as easily go 8, 12, 100.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:47 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: What scale is that?
I gave Beerus arbitrarily the 100.000.000 number and everybody else is in comparison to him.
Those zeroes don't seem to be useful at all, though. You could just as easily go 8, 12, 100.
Then I would need to give decimals to non "God Tier" characters. I started much lower, had to scale it up due to necessity.
I have the SSJ characters in the low thousands.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:50 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote: I gave Beerus arbitrarily the 100.000.000 number and everybody else is in comparison to him.
Those zeroes don't seem to be useful at all, though. You could just as easily go 8, 12, 100.
Then I would need to give decimals to non "God Tier" characters. I started much lower, had to scale it up due to necessity.
I have the SSJ characters in the low thousands.
SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, though. If anything he ought to be at 10% of Blue.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:13 pm

I think 2-5 times is reasonable. Not too high, but still a good deal stronger.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:17 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, though. If anything he ought to be at 10% of Blue.
He was not. I know visually and due to exposure time it might seem like it but the accompanying text paints the full picture.
Goku is only mentioned having surpassed Vegeta when the turned SSJB, also Hit advices Goku to turn Blue like Vegeta and not to underestimate him.
Even Base Goku performed better than Blue Vegeta, surely you don't think that makes him stronger?

It's all about context, Hit wasn't fighting seriously against Goku and was enjoying the fight. There's even a line common to both mediums(therefore from Mr.Toriyama) where it's said they(Kaioshin from U6) never saw Hit talk so much. There's a panel with Hit giving a smile when Goku said he's going to defeat him. There's quite a few things that show Hit entering Goku's rhythm and wanting to have an actual fight and not a slaughter like he did against Vegeta.

Anyway the most relevant line is the one saying only SSJG surpassed 10% Blue Vegeta, that one says it all. Although the details are quite enjoyable, Hit goes from stoic to riled up and actively smiling due to Goku.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:38 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, though. If anything he ought to be at 10% of Blue.
He was not. I know visually and due to exposure time it might seem like it but the accompanying text paints the full picture.
Goku is only mentioned having surpassed Vegeta when the turned SSJB, also Hit advices Goku to turn Blue like Vegeta and not to underestimate him.
Even Base Goku performed better than Blue Vegeta, surely you don't think that makes him stronger?

It's all about context, Hit wasn't fighting seriously against Goku and was enjoying the fight. There's even a line common to both mediums(therefore from Mr.Toriyama) where it's said they(Kaioshin from U6) never saw Hit talk so much. There's a panel with Hit giving a smile when Goku said he's going to defeat him. There's quite a few things that show Hit entering Goku's rhythm and wanting to have an actual fight and not a slaughter like he did against Vegeta.

Anyway the most relevant line is the one saying only SSJG surpassed 10% Blue Vegeta, that one says it all. Although the details are quite enjoyable, Hit goes from stoic to riled up and actively smiling due to Goku.
Beerus says Goku is stronger than Hit when he fights as a Super Saiyan.

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:06 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote: That's only in the manga. In the anime God Goku was getting stomped by Base Kefla whereas SSBlue Goku was keeping pace with SSJ Kefla who was confirmed by Champa to have a much bigger boost than normal SSJs.
We're talking about the manga though.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:33 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, though. If anything he ought to be at 10% of Blue.
He was not. I know visually and due to exposure time it might seem like it but the accompanying text paints the full picture.
Goku is only mentioned having surpassed Vegeta when the turned SSJB, also Hit advices Goku to turn Blue like Vegeta and not to underestimate him.
Even Base Goku performed better than Blue Vegeta, surely you don't think that makes him stronger?

It's all about context, Hit wasn't fighting seriously against Goku and was enjoying the fight. There's even a line common to both mediums(therefore from Mr.Toriyama) where it's said they(Kaioshin from U6) never saw Hit talk so much. There's a panel with Hit giving a smile when Goku said he's going to defeat him. There's quite a few things that show Hit entering Goku's rhythm and wanting to have an actual fight and not a slaughter like he did against Vegeta.

Anyway the most relevant line is the one saying only SSJG surpassed 10% Blue Vegeta, that one says it all. Although the details are quite enjoyable, Hit goes from stoic to riled up and actively smiling due to Goku.
Beerus says Goku is stronger than Hit when he fights as a Super Saiyan.
I remember there being a poorly worded line somewhere, I also remember him asking Whis later and we receiving the explanation from the whole situation. The last know information should be regarded as true, specially since even Hit agreed with Whis explanation.
It's like when an oblivious character shouts "x is stronger than y" only to be later corrected. This is used numerous times throughout Dragon Ball.

Next time please provide more bulk in your post. A one liner from the manga without context when I tried to cover all aspects of the argument in my posts feels like you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm not accusing you but that style doesn't contribute for a good discussion.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:37 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote: He was not. I know visually and due to exposure time it might seem like it but the accompanying text paints the full picture.
Goku is only mentioned having surpassed Vegeta when the turned SSJB, also Hit advices Goku to turn Blue like Vegeta and not to underestimate him.
Even Base Goku performed better than Blue Vegeta, surely you don't think that makes him stronger?

It's all about context, Hit wasn't fighting seriously against Goku and was enjoying the fight. There's even a line common to both mediums(therefore from Mr.Toriyama) where it's said they(Kaioshin from U6) never saw Hit talk so much. There's a panel with Hit giving a smile when Goku said he's going to defeat him. There's quite a few things that show Hit entering Goku's rhythm and wanting to have an actual fight and not a slaughter like he did against Vegeta.

Anyway the most relevant line is the one saying only SSJG surpassed 10% Blue Vegeta, that one says it all. Although the details are quite enjoyable, Hit goes from stoic to riled up and actively smiling due to Goku.
Beerus says Goku is stronger than Hit when he fights as a Super Saiyan.
I remember there being a poorly worded line somewhere, I also remember him asking Whis later and we receiving the explanation from the whole situation. The last know information should be regarded as true, specially since even Hit agreed with Whis explanation.
It's like when an oblivious character shouts "x is stronger than y" only to be later corrected. This is used numerous times throughout Dragon Ball.

Next time please provide more bulk in your post. A one liner from the manga without context when I tried to cover all aspects of the argument in my posts feels like you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm not accusing you but that style doesn't contribute for a good discussion.
Beerus' line is never contradicted, rather going by the official Viz translation Whis states that SSGod's power is far superior to Hit's which would mean that SSJ Goku was indeed a bit stronger, just not enough to overcome the timeskip.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3482
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:06 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: Beerus says Goku is stronger than Hit when he fights as a Super Saiyan.
I remember there being a poorly worded line somewhere, I also remember him asking Whis later and we receiving the explanation from the whole situation. The last know information should be regarded as true, specially since even Hit agreed with Whis explanation.
It's like when an oblivious character shouts "x is stronger than y" only to be later corrected. This is used numerous times throughout Dragon Ball.

Next time please provide more bulk in your post. A one liner from the manga without context when I tried to cover all aspects of the argument in my posts feels like you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm not accusing you but that style doesn't contribute for a good discussion.
Beerus' line is never contradicted, rather going by the official Viz translation Whis states that SSGod's power is far superior to Hit's which would mean that SSJ Goku was indeed a bit stronger, just not enough to overcome the timeskip.
Is this the line we're talking about? Just to be sure.
Beerus:"Dammit! Goku's power is supposed to be stronger than his!

This line is debunked by Whis statement.
Whis:"Goku's power has become far superior to that of Hit's. That is what's happening here."
"Hit's skills are only effective against opponents who are near or below his level."

If Goku's power was stronger than Hit's then the time-skip wouldn't work but it did. Near or below isn't "a bit stronger". To add to this, like I wrote before, Hit advices Goku to go Blue, which means 10% Vegeta Blue is stronger than SSJ Goku.
When Goku prepares to transform after fighting for a while Hit even goes "you're finally going Blue".

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:19 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote: I remember there being a poorly worded line somewhere, I also remember him asking Whis later and we receiving the explanation from the whole situation. The last know information should be regarded as true, specially since even Hit agreed with Whis explanation.
It's like when an oblivious character shouts "x is stronger than y" only to be later corrected. This is used numerous times throughout Dragon Ball.

Next time please provide more bulk in your post. A one liner from the manga without context when I tried to cover all aspects of the argument in my posts feels like you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm not accusing you but that style doesn't contribute for a good discussion.
Beerus' line is never contradicted, rather going by the official Viz translation Whis states that SSGod's power is far superior to Hit's which would mean that SSJ Goku was indeed a bit stronger, just not enough to overcome the timeskip.
Is this the line we're talking about? Just to be sure.
Beerus:"Dammit! Goku's power is supposed to be stronger than his!

This line is debunked by Whis statement.
Whis:"Goku's power has become far superior to that of Hit's. That is what's happening here."
"Hit's skills are only effective against opponents who are near or below his level."

If Goku's power was stronger than Hit's then the time-skip wouldn't work but it did. Near or below isn't "a bit stronger". To add to this, like I wrote before, Hit advices Goku to go Blue, which means 10% Vegeta Blue is stronger than SSJ Goku.
When Goku prepares to transform after fighting for a while Hit even goes "you're finally going Blue".
Near just means close to his level, Goku can be stronger while still being close to him.

Also, timeskip even worked on SSGod Goku, the way it works in the manga is the greater the power gap, the shorter it becomes. Hit himself notes that the cause is the drastic difference between himself and SSGod Goku. SSJ Goku wasn't strong enough to create any noticeable change, but that doesn't mean he was weaker than Hit.

And the gap between SSBlue Vegeta (10%) and SSJ Goku can't be very significant since Hit was still confident against Goku who he thought was going Blue even though Goku was already overwhelming him and was only at a disadvantage due to stamina. Furthermore, Vegeta would have caused Hit's timeskip to shorten if he was any appreciable amount stronger than Goku.

Post Reply