Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

GorgonMK
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:37 am

Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by GorgonMK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:08 am

In Dragon Ball Super there isn't much we can use to compare it to Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z or Dragon Ball GT.

Except Ultimate Gohan. In episode 88, Piccolo and Gohan started training to regain Gohan's old powers, before Gohan re-gains Ultimate form Piccolo says "Super Saiyan isn't your full power is it? That power you used when you fought Boo... Axaken that real you!" so we can safely assume that this ultimate Gohan is the same as Ultimate Gohan that fought Buutenks. At the end of this episode we learn that there is 9 hours 30 minutes left.

At the end of episode 89 there are 8 hours left so Gohan and Piccolo trained for 1 hour 30 minutes after Gohan became ultimate.

At the end of episode 90 there are 4 hours 30 minutes left. With fights and resting etc. included let's say 4 hours and 30 minutes of non-stop training for Gohan.

Unless Gohan got a power boost bigger than Goku did when he became SSG, there is no way that Gohan fights evenly againts SSB Goku. You might say "Goku hold back, so Gohan actually isn't that strong" but you are wrong, to finish the fight Goku used Kaioken so this means he was already using base SSB to its fullest. Unless Goku used Kaioken when he was holding back, we know that original Ultimate Gohan is not much weaker than Super Saiyan Blue.

Lets come to the GT. In episode 19 of the GT, Goku says: "The universe is cartainly a big place. To think that I should come across someone with a Ki as large as yours... It's even greater than Boo's..." As you might know all Boo's are called "Boo" in the original Japanese manga so this might be any one of them but Goku clearly says that he never came across a Ki bigger than this so my bet is that he is talking about Boohan. That doesn't matter in the end, Goku toys with him through entire fight without going to super saiyan 2 or higher. So this base Kid Goku of GT is vastly superior to the original Ultimate Gohan.

So unless Gohan got a boost higher than any other boost in Dragon Ball history (Besides Trunks), GT base Goku is stronger than SSB ToP Goku.

User avatar
Firebolt
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:40 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Firebolt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:11 am

There is no way that Buu-saga Ultimate Gohan is only slightly weaker than SSJB Goku. In Super, Gohan states that First Form Freeza was as strong as him when his power was unlocked by Elder Kai, but Goku, in his base form was able to fight evenly with Fourth Form Freeza. So yeah, Gohan got the biggest power boost in DB history.

But let's be real, the only reason why Ultimate Gohan was able to go head-to-head with SSJB Goku was just Toei trying to please Gohan fans. He will probably be a lot weaker in Toyotaro's manga.

theherodjl
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by theherodjl » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Goku was holding back, he was testing Gohan and not fighting him. You're forgetting that on Planet Potaufeu, Vegeta's power was stolen and his body copied by the Komeson and even Base Vegeta's strength was enough to overwhelm SSJ3 Gotenks. Bare minimum, Base Goku & Vegeta are on par with Boo arc Ultimate Gohan and have since probably improved after those events.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5664
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:28 pm

More like power levels in DBS are all over the place, so you can make an argument for them being insanely low or insanely high.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:55 pm

I never understood why people deny someone's gains because of how little they trained. Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks, everyone likes to ignore how much they powered up because "It's impossible, they only trained for hours/days." Suspension of disbelief dude, get over it.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
Jackalope89
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:50 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:I never understood why people deny someone's gains because of how little they trained. Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks, everyone likes to ignore how much they powered up because "It's impossible, they only trained for hours/days." Suspension of disbelief dude, get over it.
In the Buu Arc, Gohan didn't even have to train to obtain his Ultimate Form. Just sat on his butt as Old Kai did a little jig around him.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Bullza » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:52 pm

Which characters in GT can destroy a Universe with one shot again?

User avatar
Jackalope89
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:54 pm

Bullza wrote:Which characters in GT can destroy a Universe with one shot again?
Not to say anything definitive, but at the beginning of GT, Goku claimed he was as strong as SSJ3 in the Buu Arc in his base form.

Now, I'm no powerscaler, by any means, but I would say that, at the very least, Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta are contenders.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Bullza » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:22 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Not to say anything definitive, but at the beginning of GT, Goku claimed he was as strong as SSJ3 in the Buu Arc in his base form.

Now, I'm no powerscaler, by any means, but I would say that, at the very least, Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta are contenders.
But Base Goku by the Resurrection F saga was so strong that someone like Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is couldn't even budge him from the spot.

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Zephyr » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am

Super takes place before GT. Of course they're stronger later in life.

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1988
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:52 am

Firebolt wrote:In Super, Gohan states that First Form Freeza was as strong as him when his power was unlocked by Elder Kai
I'm almost certain Gohan didn't say this. The only think I can think of similar to this is Gohan saying Tagoma could be hiding power close to his own which was mistranslated to his all time best, which clearly was false as Tagoma/Ginyu lost to a rusty ssj Gohan.

User avatar
Firebolt
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:40 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Firebolt » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:01 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Firebolt wrote:In Super, Gohan states that First Form Freeza was as strong as him when his power was unlocked by Elder Kai
I'm almost certain Gohan didn't say this. The only think I can think of similar to this is Gohan saying Tagoma could be hiding power close to his own which was mistranslated to his all time best, which clearly was false as Tagoma/Ginyu lost to a rusty ssj Gohan.
I've rewatched the episode and there's no such quote, my bad. I believe it could have been from the movie though.

Anyway, like other people have said, Base Vegeta beat SSJ3 Gotenks without even trying, so that should give you an idea of how strong Super characters are compared to GT characters.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:24 am

Can't stop laughing on people who think that base DBS Goku can beat SSJ4 Gogeta because HE HAS GOD KI!!!!
God > Mortal!!
Supreme Kai > Buuhan!!
(YouTube is full of people like that)

Many people actually believe Goku in Super can destroy universe lol. No one except Zeno in entire franchise was confirmed to be truly universal, yet people state bullshit about base Goku being multi-mega-giga-univeral+++ 2.0. And no, destroying everything in universe isn't being universal. Zeno could actually destroy universe itself, the entire sphere, not just planets inside.

DBS Ultimate Gohan is only slightly stronger than DBZ Ultimate Gohan. Goku as SSJ was still heavily struggling with him.
In GT, base Goku was able to wreck SSJ Gohan, while base GT Gohan was confirmed to be at least equal to DBZ Ultimate Gohan.
And that was in Baby saga, where Majuub was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
In Shadow Dragons saga, base Goku was already stronger than Majuub(!) who was only slightly weaker than Super Baby 2 who was confirmed to be stronger than Vegito from Buu saga (or at least Buuhan).

Another example is Goku turning SSJ3 against Trunks who said that Dabura was tough enemy.

How can people seriously think DBS is superior in power levels? At least in base power levels.
Every non-god form of Goku in Super is complete trash that would lose to base GT Goku after Super 17 saga, seriously.
Every god form except UI would get trashed by SSJ4 in instant.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2026
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:08 am

In Universe Mission's intro from Super Dragon Ball Heroes, SS4 Xeno Goku is seen fighting Dragon Ball Super's SSB Goku.

Now bear in mind, Xeno Goku is VERY strong, being on equivalent terms with SSG Beat in his base form. He then can turn SS4 ON TOP of that, and yet he's been shown to only be equal to SSB Goku from the main show. BTW, this guy is on equal terms with Time Breaker LSS4 Broly, when regular LSS4 easily beat SS4 Goku and Vegeta from Dragon Ball GT.

This is an alternate Goku that's much stronger than his Dragon Ball GT incarnation, and yet he's still only equal to the main show's SSB Goku.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:14 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:In Universe Mission's intro from Super Dragon Ball Heroes, SS4 Xeno Goku is seen fighting Dragon Ball Super's SSB Goku.

Now bear in mind, Xeno Goku is VERY strong, being on equivalent terms with SSG Beat in his base form. He then can turn SS4 ON TOP of that, and yet he's been shown to only be equal to SSB Goku from the main show. BTW, this guy is on equal terms with Time Breaker LSS4 Broly, when regular LSS4 easily beat SS4 Goku and Vegeta from Dragon Ball GT.

This is an alternate Goku that's much stronger than his Dragon Ball GT incarnation, and yet he's still only equal to the main show's SSB Goku.
We are talking about a game where base Bardock can beat Gogta SSJ4 and Beat can beat Beerus? Yeah, legit source.
I was able to beat Whis using Saibamen in Xenoverse. It means Saibamen is stronger than Whis, right?
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2026
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:41 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:In Universe Mission's intro from Super Dragon Ball Heroes, SS4 Xeno Goku is seen fighting Dragon Ball Super's SSB Goku.

Now bear in mind, Xeno Goku is VERY strong, being on equivalent terms with SSG Beat in his base form. He then can turn SS4 ON TOP of that, and yet he's been shown to only be equal to SSB Goku from the main show. BTW, this guy is on equal terms with Time Breaker LSS4 Broly, when regular LSS4 easily beat SS4 Goku and Vegeta from Dragon Ball GT.

This is an alternate Goku that's much stronger than his Dragon Ball GT incarnation, and yet he's still only equal to the main show's SSB Goku.
We are talking about a game where base Bardock can beat Gogta SSJ4 and Beat can beat Beerus? Yeah, legit source.
I was able to beat Whis using Saibamen in Xenoverse. It means Saibamen is stronger than Whis, right?
Thing is, you're using game mechanics as a counterpoint.

In VS. debates, that's a flawed and generally looked-down-upon method of drawing up evidence. I, however, have used static cinematics and in-story material. Trust me, I come from a debate forum. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to what does and doesn't count as evidence, especially in a thread for "In-Universe" discussions.

Not to mention that, due to a lack of any other official material that clarifies the two continuities' power rankings with regards to each other that's static and narratively grounded, Super Dragon Ball Heroes's stories and cinematics are the best evidence we can garner. Not to mention that in Dragon Ball: Xenoverse 2, it takes the Time Patroller AND SSB Goku to take on Mira after he absorbs Toki-Toki's egg and Towa; this is a SSB Goku as of Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F. In Super Dragon Ball Heroes, this same Mira is on the same level as SS4 Xeno Goku, whom is on-par with SSB Goku as of the Universal Survival Arc.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 am

Lol no. Bardock beating SSJ4 Gogeta was cinematic and Beat beating Beerus was part of official story in manga as well.
Games do NOT count.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2026
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:49 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:Lol no. Bardock beating SSJ4 Gogeta was cinematic and Beat beating Beerus was part of official story in manga as well.
Games do NOT count.
And why don't they count, again?

They have their own stories, exactly like you highlighted, and they're predicated on using characters from various points in the main story as they were.

If it's in-universe discussion that's required, then using narrative information "in-universe" from the games by definition should be allowed. The fact that these feats and scenarios can get ridiculous isn't proper debating etiquette, and in fact is simply in poor form. We don't get to decide what doesn't count simply because we don't like it; there have to be rules put in place to serve as a guideline for that.

So tell me, what other official material do YOU know of that specifically compares Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Super? If you don't have anything, then I'm using the games.

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 am

Well, Tadayoshi Yamamuro during Entrevista in 2015 politely answered the question of who is stronger 4 or God, how SSJ4 happens later than SSJG in Goku's story without making the "---->" to step on anyone's toes.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10257
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:19 am

Xenoverse and such are fine, but in Heroes, as I recall, isn't the stuff ingame just a video game? So the stuff with Gogeta and Broly and such are, themselves, ingame game mechanics, not story content. Since it's kid's playing a game.

Wow, that's meta.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

Post Reply