Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 05, 2018 8:00 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: I believe 17 can become stronger but there is no direct verification of how much but both they have the same strength for something it was necessary that they merge
vegeta can not feel the ki of androids
vegeta never meet android 17 to know
gohan lost power for stopping training
He didn't need to fight 17 before to know that he was no match for 1st form Cell.
And base Vegeta at this point was able to beat Baby Gohan who was much stronger than regular base Gohan who was easily comparable to Ultimate Gohan at power (yes, he was).
And Vegeta didn't know that this is different 17. He was thinking it's the same 17 from Cell saga so he was surprised that he can keep up with him instead of being destroyed in single punch.
Image
which tells me that increase what is necessary to fight with him in base, the same as in previous sagas that could not beat them in base
and what I am going
goten that I stop training was able to fight against gohan
gohan does not have the sns or ssj2
baby only increases your power when installed as in the case of vegeta (white hair)
Cetra wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: and your comment is also perfect towards you
Wow, thank you for this basic response that comes from everyone and their grandmother but no, it is not "perfect towards me" because even letting the Vegetto part itself aside your entire power claims cannot work within the realm of what we see in GT where those characters get stronger to an extreme extent. Unless you want to believe stuff like Goku's saying he feels Baby as the highest power he has ever felt is wrong or that between Baby's forms there is not much strength difference. And I doubt that even you believe that. Goku was totally obliterated by Baby in his first Stage already and when almost dying said he was glad there was someone that strong. Baby Stage 2 and Stage 3 were even stronger. You really want to tell me those guys are in your eyes the level of Boo Arc characters as you believe Vegetto himself from Z is SSJ4 level?

That means: Rildo is basically only a bit weaker than Baby, somewhere inbetween is Majoob, a lot of Babys forms as well as a Controlled Tailed SSJ3 and then SSJ4 and Z Vegetto? Do you see how this is beyond believable? Especially in "we get bigger and stronger than everyone before" Dragon Ball.
I'm not offending you at all or I'm making fun of you so I do not know what your comment is coming
you can take the statements as long as they are tested and not contradictory.
Rildo has a fight with Goku to the point of transforming into SSJ, then we see that a stronger version of Rildo receiving hits of pan.
so then pan is stronger than Buu?
then we see that goku in base easily destroys rildo even though before he could not.
there is no information about the power of uub before merging, goku only trained to release its potential "kid buu" later merged with mr buu should have the level of super buu because there is nothing tell to be stronger not even a comment
and majuub gives a fight to baby vegeta so if the statement of goku is contradictory
Incidentally many characters stopped training for peace times because they lost power or condition
gohan, goten and trunks the proof is that gohan becomes ssj when that was no longer necessary
reason why baby chose vegeta to inhabit it because the others were inferior.
again is the case of androids 17.
they can take the statements but they are contradictory.

in super is the same
vegeta gets "god ki" and you can see his clone humiliate to gotenks later cabba faces vegeta base that means that cabba is stronger than gotenks? obviously it is contradictory so I do not take it into account

for left in clear
I do not think goku base super> gotenks
I do not think goku base gt> kid buu
why? because it is contradictory

if you believe this, ok I have nothing against that

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Sat May 05, 2018 8:43 pm

It is incredibly hard to read your comments. I don't know if you already try your best but if not I would really appreciate phrasing them more comprehensible.
Tai Lung wrote: Rildo has a fight with Goku to the point of transforming into SSJ, then we see that a stronger version of Rildo receiving hits of pan.
so then pan is stronger than Buu?
Since when is taking a hit from a character actually requiring a character to be on the level of xyz? Was Sorbet's ring on the level of Goku? Was Kuririn's power when he threw a rock at Goku on SSJ Goku's level? Was Tenshinhan on par with Semi-Perfect Cell just so he could stop him for a few seconds. As a matter of fact the moment Rildo tanked Pan's punch with just his face, grabbing her arm and throwing her away should tell you already enough.
Tai Lung wrote: then we see that goku in base easily destroys rildo even though before he could not.
No one except you says he "could not". Goku barely fought serious before he met Baby. As a matter of fact he transformed A SINGLE TIME into SSJ2 for a brief moment against Rildo but decided to stay either base or SSJ most of the time. There is no "he could not". He just did not. That is a big difference.
Tai Lung wrote: there is no information about the power of uub before merging, goku only trained to release its potential "kid buu" later merged with mr buu should have the level of super buu because there is nothing tell to be stronger not even a comment
If anything there is no telling "Kid Boo" merged with Mr. Boo. Kid Boo does no longer exist. Oob has an incredibly high potential being the reincarnated Kid Boo and that's really it. There was NEVER any saying "have that potential trained and that means you have just the power of Kid Boo"". That is your deduction from I don't know where. And yes, there is something that tells he is a lot stronger. I showed you previously it can hardly function that Majoob is so pathetically weak because it would squeeze together all Rildo forms, Majoob, Goku's Controlled Tailed SSJ3 and almost all of Baby's forms to a narrow Boo saga scale in which the forms hardly mean anything special when it comes to power boost and for what? Just so you can say "Vegetto from Z is the one". You are giving the characters with all their ridiculous forms an extremely sparse space to grow just to make that statement. I hardly ever defend Dragon Ball when it comes to such things because Dragon Ball is just what it is but you are really trying to limit things just for the sake of it and no one really honestly thinking about how idiotically high the power gains in Dragon Ball can become can seriously and in all fairness think "yeah all of the above mentioned characters with their forms are squeezed together in that right Z Boo arc spot".
Tai Lung wrote:
and majuub gives a fight to baby vegeta so if the statement of goku is contradictory
No it is not contradictory because for it to be contradictory it would require your other statement to be true. You are trying to form an axiom (a claim that has no derivation because it is the starting point but has to be so logical and without any contradictions that it does not need to be proven in the first place and then you can start building other things on top of that - basic science; mathematics for example has tons of axioms) here to base things on but the problem is the thing you have is not even close to an axiom.
Tai Lung wrote: Incidentally many characters stopped training for peace times because they lost power or condition
Goku trained, Vegeta trained, Oob trained. Seems to me like these "many characters" you speak of do not really exist. Obviously you mean Goten, Gohan and Trunks (as your next sentence implies) but there is never any actual saying that this is a real thing. Not that I would not believe that for someone like Goten because vol. 42 shows he is too lazy to train with Goku but this whole "they all did not train therefore they are weaker" is ridiculously speculative so I do not know what this comment of yours should amount to as it lacks actual substance that can be used.
Tai Lung wrote: gohan, goten and trunks the proof is that gohan becomes ssj when that was no longer necessary
No, that is no "proof". You guys are constantly misusing the term proof and that gives an actual scientist like me a serious headache. Your logical derivation is almost non-existent here. There is no saying that "SSJ -> btw. this means they got weaker because Elder Kai said transformations are not the solution". We have SEEN Toei is a sucker for traditional SSJ forms. Gohan was even supposed to use it against Beerus. Dragon Ball GT heavily focused on Base, SSJ and SSJ4. SSJ2 and SSJ3 were hardly ever used. So there is no wonder why no additional forms or power ups from other characters like contrabass-playing Goten or ice cream-eating Pan was used. Vegeta also did not use Super Saiyajin 2 (or at least Toei made no effort differentiating here). Do you think Vegeta was also so pathetically weak he no longer had that form (and I mean notmal Vegeta, not Vegeta Baby with his Super Tsufurujin transformations). I hate this constant fan thinking of fans thinking Gohan can or should no longer use bla, etc. Gohan always could use Super Saiyajin after getting the Ultimate Kaioushin gift. Goku flat out asks "shall we fuse as SSJ?" And Gohan transforms for the ritual in Battle of Gods. Now you can say "but it still should not be necessary" but Toei never cared for that in GT. And as said, not even in Battle of Gods. They literally RECOLOURED SSJ (surely can still be seen online somewhere in an old trailer) against Beerus to make it Ultimate instead.
Tai Lung wrote: reason why baby chose vegeta to inhabit it because the others were inferior.
Your point? Of course they are inferior. Toei never treated Vegeta in GT like he was inferior to the others. That does not make them the weaklings you claim. And no, from a narrative perspective it is a lot more effective and dramatic for the final boss to take over the prince's body. There is no meaning behind SSJ4 Goku VS Gohan or Goten Baby. Completely different narration.
Tai Lung wrote: vegeta gets "god ki" and you can see his clone humiliate to gotenks later cabba faces vegeta base that means that cabba is stronger than gotenks? obviously it is contradictory so I do not take it into account
That is not how such a deduction is made. Also no, it is not obviously contradictory because you just claim that Gotenks is stronger than Cabba and that's it. You are making up facts to say the other thing is contradictory to your point. And while you say "if you believe this" I have to tell you, again, it is incredibly ridiculous to say such a thing about a franchise like this, but oh well ... researching for facts is no matter of "believing". If you have no unequivocal thing to derive from you still take the most logical approach to get the most plausible deduction. But "I do not want Cabba to be stronger than Gotenks and thus xyz is weaker and thus statement xyz is contradictory and thus my point is right" is not the way to go. And as a sidenote I might add: Dragon Ball is fiction. There ARE contradictions indeed. But the system in which Dragon Ball exists can exist even with contradictions because it has no corporeal fabric that actual depends on internal consistency. This is why all plotholes and other errors are completely irrelevant for fiction and why all that matters is authority of a product saying "does not matter, we want it like that". Because owner intention is top priority, not fan arguments and wishes. Own the brand, own the rights.

And as a final reminder. Tadayoshi Yamamuro himself practically and in a subtle way already answered where SSJ4 power-wise stands back in 2015 during Entrevista when a guy wanted to annoy him with a canonicity question. So that's that. If you do not know that interview, he in a very nice way made a comment that subtly told the other guy SSJ4 is beyond SSJ God. So you can imagine SSJ4 is far beyond Z Vegetto. The way he did answer he practically set SSJ4 above all of Goku's Dragon Ball Super stuff because he went for chronology, but I do not want to go that way because I can already see a lot of comments of fans who have no decisive power not accepting what an official employee says and bleh bleh does not fit my misunderstanding of the word canon and bleh makes no sense bleh GT sucks - you know such people really exist - so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, same discussions as always, I'm out. Take what you want to learn from it or don't.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sat May 05, 2018 9:37 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Rakurai wrote: What are you talking about? Do you need to be fucking told in explicit words "hypothetical DBGT Vegetto"? The passage is talking about Vegetto IN GENERAL. Not Buu arc Vegetto. Not EoZ Vegetto. Just Vegetto in general. That's it, pure and simple. Potara can surpass SSJ4 transformation, just like it can surpass SSG/B as we've seen with Kefla. Pictures mean nothing without context, otherwise you might as well say Goku was still dead when fighting kid Buu in the passage above that. Yeah, that's BS.
kefla surpasses goku god because kale has the ssj berserker has nothing to do.
I return to the same there is nothing that tells me to refer to a vegito that is not of the saga of buu. with that description can be one or the other
Cetra wrote: I hope you know that you are trying to contradict something you do not like with something that is also just a baseless claim and yes, no matter how hard you try, it is a baseless claim. "Does not say so is not" and "Majoob is equal Super Boo" means nothing as such a statement. There is nothing to actually derive it from. Also Majoob had actually a bit (a tiny bit) of a chance against Super Tsufurujin 3 Baby and you still think he is just on Super Boo's level? This is ludicrous. Oob reuniting with Mr. Boo is not equal Super Boo. That is not at all what the show wants to say. You know what it wants to say? "He gets a lot stronger". And nothing else. No "Btw. this is like Super Boo" or anything else. That is how Dragon Ball always operates. "With this I am now even stronger". No pseudo-scientific equations.
and your comment is also perfect towards you
I already made it clear that without more information you can not take either one because basically they are trying to say that it refers to a current vegito and not the vegito buu arc without any proof
Base Kefla stomped SSG Goku. I repeat, base Kefla. Base Kefla > SSG Goku. A Potara fusion with fusees, one who might be equal to Goku and one who has been portrayed to be weak without her transformations, is far stronger than SSG Goku.

Nothing tells you what timeline they're referring to? Then what makes you think Buu arc Vegetto is what they're referring to? The passage makes no mention of Z events; it is in present tense; it is informative as opposed to recollective. The picture means nothing without context. Stop being intellectually dishonest and say there is no evidence. Vegetto exists in all timelines, including GT, so long as Goku and Vegeta still exist in that timeline. It falls upon you to prove that they're referring to Z Vegetto, which you can't because it doesn't refer to those events at all. The picture is not proof, as I already showed that the passage next to kid Buu vs. SSJ3 Goku contradicts the picture itself, because of context.
Koitsukai wrote:Lol I rewatched GT 2 weeks ago, but yeah, and i'm the one with the headcanon...
And I find believing that a hard time if you think Gohan's power diminished when nothing was ever implied in the series.

Perfect Files stated GT Gohan, even in times of peace, hadn't neglected his training. This is as straightforward as it can get. It's not a hyperbole or ambiguous like other statements that riddle guidebooks.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 05, 2018 10:55 pm

Cetra wrote: Since when is taking a hit from a character actually requiring a character to be on the level of xyz? Was Sorbet's ring on the level of Goku? Was Kuririn's power when he threw a rock at Goku on SSJ Goku's level? Was Tenshinhan on par with Semi-Perfect Cell just so he could stop him for a few seconds. As a matter of fact the moment Rildo tanked Pan's punch with just his face, grabbing her arm and throwing her away should tell you already enough.

-goku in base lowered his guard and he was not in combat and we already know that the characters can lower their ki like trunks in front of frieza
- filler
-by technique and did not do anything
Rildo was transformed and went straight to pan, not have to restrain is a enemy
Cetra wrote: No one except you says he "could not". Goku barely fought serious before he met Baby. As a matter of fact he transformed A SINGLE TIME into SSJ2 for a brief moment against Rildo but decided to stay either base or SSJ most of the time. There is no "he could not". He just did not. That is a big difference.
why bother fighting with an enemy that you can easily defeat?
Goku is surprised at his power and even receives blows from this do not come to me with the fact that he did not do anything was transformed into SSJ because in base could not beat him, which he then does later with an attack
Cetra wrote: If anything there is no telling "Kid Boo" merged with Mr. Boo. Kid Boo does no longer exist. Oob has an incredibly high potential being the reincarnated Kid Boo and that's really it. There was NEVER any saying "have that potential trained and that means you have just the power of Kid Boo"". That is your deduction from I don't know where. And yes, there is something that tells he is a lot stronger. I showed you previously it can hardly function that Majoob is so pathetically weak because it would squeeze together all Rildo forms, Majoob, Goku's Controlled Tailed SSJ3 and almost all of Baby's forms to a narrow Boo saga scale in which the forms hardly mean anything special when it comes to power boost and for what? Just so you can say "Vegetto from Z is the one". You are giving the characters with all their ridiculous forms an extremely sparse space to grow just to make that statement. I hardly ever defend Dragon Ball when it comes to such things because Dragon Ball is just what it is but you are really trying to limit things just for the sake of it and no one really honestly thinking about how idiotically high the power gains in Dragon Ball can become can seriously and in all fairness think "yeah all of the above mentioned characters with their forms are squeezed together in that right Z Boo arc spot"..
this clear, uub in the tournament could face goku in base but not in ssj goku said that it would help him to take out his potential, the unique reference is kid buu so his training should end there
and majuub does not do anything to super17 but goku and vegeta if they can fight with it in ssj
rildo has variable power as already explained
Cetra wrote:
No it is not contradictory because for it to be contradictory it would require your other statement to be true. You are trying to form an axiom (a claim that has no derivation because it is the starting point but has to be so logical and without any contradictions that it does not need to be proven in the first place and then you can start building other things on top of that - basic science; mathematics for example has tons of axioms) here to base things on but the problem is the thing you have is not even close to an axiom.
> facts
Cetra wrote: Goku trained, Vegeta trained, Oob trained. Seems to me like these "many characters" you speak of do not really exist. Obviously you mean Goten, Gohan and Trunks (as your next sentence implies) but there is never any actual saying that this is a real thing. Not that I would not believe that for someone like Goten because vol. 42 shows he is too lazy to train with Goku but this whole "they all did not train therefore they are weaker" is ridiculously speculative so I do not know what this comment of yours should amount to as it lacks actual substance that can be used.
the only 3
pan, 18, probably piccolo etc
it is clearly said that goten and trunks stopped training for words of vegeta
Cetra wrote: No, that is no "proof". You guys are constantly misusing the term proof and that gives an actual scientist like me a serious headache. Your logical derivation is almost non-existent here. There is no saying that "SSJ -> btw. this means they got weaker because Elder Kai said transformations are not the solution". We have SEEN Toei is a sucker for traditional SSJ forms. Gohan was even supposed to use it against Beerus. Dragon Ball GT heavily focused on Base, SSJ and SSJ4. SSJ2 and SSJ3 were hardly ever used. So there is no wonder why no additional forms or power ups from other characters like contrabass-playing Goten or ice cream-eating Pan was used. Vegeta also did not use Super Saiyajin 2 (or at least Toei made no effort differentiating here). Do you think Vegeta was also so pathetically weak he no longer had that form (and I mean notmal Vegeta, not Vegeta Baby with his Super Tsufurujin transformations). I hate this constant fan thinking of fans thinking Gohan can or should no longer use bla, etc. Gohan always could use Super Saiyajin after getting the Ultimate Kaioushin gift. Goku flat out asks "shall we fuse as SSJ?" And Gohan transforms for the ritual in Battle of Gods. Now you can say "but it still should not be necessary" but Toei never cared for that in GT. And as said, not even in Battle of Gods. They literally RECOLOURED SSJ (surely can still be seen online somewhere in an old trailer) against Beerus to make it Ultimate instead.
> manga

[img]http://englishfortamils.com/comics/cach ... 46_795.jpg
[/img]

ro kaoi tells him to try to transform and eventually pulls out the sns
so it should not be transformed into ssj it is not necessary so he lost in gt it as in fnf
is a error of toei? wanted to take out the ssj in battle of gods? is not my problem it is their mistake that did not happen at the end in the battle
Cetra wrote: Your point? Of course they are inferior. Toei never treated Vegeta in GT like he was inferior to the others. That does not make them the weaklings you claim. And no, from a narrative perspective it is a lot more effective and dramatic for the final boss to take over the prince's body. There is no meaning behind SSJ4 Goku VS Gohan or Goten Baby. Completely different narration.
evil vegeta only for goku to be the hero neh ...my point I mean the others are weaker than vegeta
Cetra wrote: That is not how such a deduction is made. Also no, it is not obviously contradictory because you just claim that Gotenks is stronger than Cabba and that's it. You are making up facts to say the other thing is contradictory to your point. And while you say "if you believe this" I have to tell you, again, it is incredibly ridiculous to say such a thing about a franchise like this, but oh well ... researching for facts is no matter of "believing". If you have no unequivocal thing to derive from you still take the most logical approach to get the most plausible deduction. But "I do not want Cabba to be stronger than Gotenks and thus xyz is weaker and thus statement xyz is contradictory and thus my point is right" is not the way to go. And as a sidenote I might add: Dragon Ball is fiction. There ARE contradictions indeed. But the system in which Dragon Ball exists can exist even with contradictions because it has no corporeal fabric that actual depends on internal consistency. This is why all plotholes and other errors are completely irrelevant for fiction and why all that matters is authority of a product saying "does not matter, we want it like that". Because owner intention is top priority, not fan arguments and wishes. Own the brand, own the rights.

And as a final reminder. Tadayoshi Yamamuro himself practically and in a subtle way already answered where SSJ4 power-wise stands back in 2015 during Entrevista when a guy wanted to annoy him with a canonicity question. So that's that. If you do not know that interview, he in a very nice way made a comment that subtly told the other guy SSJ4 is beyond SSJ God. So you can imagine SSJ4 is far beyond Z Vegetto. The way he did answer he practically set SSJ4 above all of Goku's Dragon Ball Super stuff because he went for chronology, but I do not want to go that way because I can already see a lot of comments of fans who have no decisive power not accepting what an official employee says and bleh bleh does not fit my misunderstanding of the word canon and bleh makes no sense bleh GT sucks - you know such people really exist - so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, same discussions as always, I'm out. Take what you want to learn from it or don't.
"with your logic of all are stronger" majuub is more stronger than superbuu for much and cabba should be stronger than gotenks for giving a fight to vegeta in base in truth do you think so? I ask you that question?
I've always thought that logic before everything
super and gt are different chronologies any comment that one stronger than others is wrong until a comparison of feats is done that is what matters

Rakurai wrote: Base Kefla stomped SSG Goku. I repeat, base Kefla. Base Kefla > SSG Goku. A Potara fusion with fusees, one who might be equal to Goku and one who has been portrayed to be weak without her transformations, is far stronger than SSG Goku.
kale berserker can keep fighting against the ssj god. so kefla can beat a ssj god
so?
Rakurai wrote: Nothing tells you what timeline they're referring to? Then what makes you think Buu arc Vegetto is what they're referring to? The passage makes no mention of Z events; it is in present tense; it is informative as opposed to recollective. The picture means nothing without context. Stop being intellectually dishonest and say there is no evidence. Vegetto exists in all timelines, including GT, so long as Goku and Vegeta still exist in that timeline. It falls upon you to prove that they're referring to Z Vegetto, which you can't because it doesn't refer to those events at all. The picture is not proof, as I already showed that the passage next to kid Buu vs. SSJ3 Goku contradicts the picture itself, because of context.
What episode comes out if it exists then? Does it exist in the dragon ball og then?
eye we are talking about a character who only appeared in buu arc could leave in gt yeah, if he could but he no did it is as if we were talking about a gotenks (gt) that could appear but we never saw it I have no evidence, only the "obviousness" that only was seen a vegito in buu arc
there is only one basic description I can be wrong.
but I do not see evidence to the contrary if you want to see it like that, ok but do not tell me that I'm not being honest when it's based on speculations

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 06, 2018 1:34 pm

Tai Lung wrote:...
You said that there is no proof when the proof is literally right there in the context of the passage. It is a general claim of Vegetto, not a claim of the Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the desperate result of Goku and Vegeta, etc. That's why I say you are being intellectually dishonest when you feign ignorance to the choice of tense, tone, and details of the passage. Super Vegetto IN GENERAL can surpass any transformation, if the strength of the two fighters is sufficient enough.

LSSJ is irrelevant to what I was claiming. If Kale and Caulifla didn't know Super Saiyan, and they fused using Potara, then they'd still be stomp SSG Goku. That's a hard fact.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

Meshack
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:06 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Meshack » Sun May 06, 2018 3:08 pm

Definitely not but okay. The strongest characters in Super are far stronger than GT’s.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sun May 06, 2018 5:04 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:...
You said that there is no proof when the proof is literally right there in the context of the passage. It is a general claim of Vegetto, not a claim of the Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the desperate result of Goku and Vegeta, etc. That's why I say you are being intellectually dishonest when you feign ignorance to the choice of tense, tone, and details of the passage. Super Vegetto IN GENERAL can surpass any transformation, if the strength of the two fighters is sufficient enough.

LSSJ is irrelevant to what I was claiming. If Kale and Caulifla didn't know Super Saiyan, and they fused using Potara, then they'd still be stomp SSG Goku. That's a hard fact.
Are you telling me that it is a basic description of vegito? ok. and? you are not being honest in what you are speculating because that does not mean that it does not refer to the only one we could see, because it does not say if goku and vegeta were merged "currently" they would surpass ssj4 it does not mean that it can not be one or the other

if goku and gohan merge in the buu arc they would be stronger than vegito because gohan has the sns. the same goes for kale for his hidden power

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 06, 2018 9:23 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Rakurai wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:...
You said that there is no proof when the proof is literally right there in the context of the passage. It is a general claim of Vegetto, not a claim of the Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the desperate result of Goku and Vegeta, etc. That's why I say you are being intellectually dishonest when you feign ignorance to the choice of tense, tone, and details of the passage. Super Vegetto IN GENERAL can surpass any transformation, if the strength of the two fighters is sufficient enough.

LSSJ is irrelevant to what I was claiming. If Kale and Caulifla didn't know Super Saiyan, and they fused using Potara, then they'd still be stomp SSG Goku. That's a hard fact.
Are you telling me that it is a basic description of vegito? ok. and? you are not being honest in what you are speculating because that does not mean that it does not refer to the only one we could see, because it does not say if goku and vegeta were merged "currently" they would surpass ssj4 it does not mean that it can not be one or the other

if goku and gohan merge in the buu arc they would be stronger than vegito because gohan has the sns. the same goes for kale for his hidden power
Holy crap. Have you not been paying attention to the conversation? It is in present tense. Pictures don't necessarily correlate to passages. I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

To make the context of the Vegetto passage as clear as can be, allow me to translate the previous passages for you:

https://imgur.com/J9UjSvj

"To beat Super Saiyan 2, Cell decided to explode with the Earth! To save Earth, Goku used Instantaneous Movement to move to the Other World with Cell! Happy with Gohan's growth, Goku sacrificed himself to protect the Earth!"

"In the Other World, Goku once again trained to reach a form beyond Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3! In order to take down Buu, he transformed into this while still dead! The disadvantage to this form is that the form consumes energy fast and cannot last long."

And now Herms' translation (which is accurate):
"After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

The previous two passages, which highlights and references characters specific to those Z events, are in past tense. The Vegetto passage makes zero mention of Z events and is all in present tense. What's more, the second passage references Goku fighting Fat Buu while the pic next to it is that of Kid Buu.

So all the evidence from the context falls upon the passage referring to Vegetto IN GENERAL. Your argument as to which Vegetto it could be referring to, like Z Vegetto, is null, void, and has no support.

If you keep trying to refute it with more baseless speculation, then I can't help you and I'm done with you. The context is there. It's up to you whether to accept it or reject it.

Also, what? Comparing Gohan and Kale is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are completely different in terms of power usage. Gohan's ultimate power is separate from his SSJ transformations. Kale's true power relies on her SSJ transformations. Anime base Kale is weak as shit. Also, Goku and Gohan merging to become stronger than Vegetto is nothing more than pure headcanon and contradicted by Elder Kai, who was absolutely certain that Vegetto was the strongest.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sun May 06, 2018 10:18 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
Rakurai wrote:
You said that there is no proof when the proof is literally right there in the context of the passage. It is a general claim of Vegetto, not a claim of the Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the desperate result of Goku and Vegeta, etc. That's why I say you are being intellectually dishonest when you feign ignorance to the choice of tense, tone, and details of the passage. Super Vegetto IN GENERAL can surpass any transformation, if the strength of the two fighters is sufficient enough.

LSSJ is irrelevant to what I was claiming. If Kale and Caulifla didn't know Super Saiyan, and they fused using Potara, then they'd still be stomp SSG Goku. That's a hard fact.
Are you telling me that it is a basic description of vegito? ok. and? you are not being honest in what you are speculating because that does not mean that it does not refer to the only one we could see, because it does not say if goku and vegeta were merged "currently" they would surpass ssj4 it does not mean that it can not be one or the other

if goku and gohan merge in the buu arc they would be stronger than vegito because gohan has the sns. the same goes for kale for his hidden power
Holy crap. Have you not been paying attention to the conversation? It is in present tense. Pictures don't necessarily correlate to passages. I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

To make the context of the Vegetto passage as clear as can be, allow me to translate the previous passages for you:

https://imgur.com/J9UjSvj

"To beat Super Saiyan 2, Cell decided to explode with the Earth! To save Earth, Goku used Instantaneous Movement to move to the Other World with Cell! Happy with Gohan's growth, Goku sacrificed himself to protect the Earth!"

"In the Other World, Goku once again trained to reach a form beyond Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3! In order to take down Buu, he transformed into this while still dead! The disadvantage to this form is that the form consumes energy fast and cannot last long."

And now Herms' translation (which is accurate):
"After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

The previous two passages, which highlights and references characters specific to those Z events, are in past tense. The Vegetto passage makes zero mention of Z events and is all in present tense. What's more, the second passage references Goku fighting Fat Buu while the pic next to it is that of Kid Buu.

So all the evidence from the context falls upon the passage referring to Vegetto IN GENERAL. Your argument as to which Vegetto it could be referring to, like Z Vegetto, is null, void, and has no support.

If you keep trying to refute it with more baseless speculation, then I can't help you and I'm done with you. The context is there. It's up to you whether to accept it or reject it.

Also, what? Comparing Gohan and Kale is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are completely different in terms of power usage. Gohan's ultimate power is separate from his SSJ transformations. Kale's true power relies on her SSJ transformations. Anime base Kale is weak as shit. Also, Goku and Gohan merging to become stronger than Vegetto is nothing more than pure headcanon and contradicted by Elder Kai, who was absolutely certain that Vegetto was the strongest.
you're just comparing descriptions, one thing does not change the other ... that's why I say you speculates
Is the image only representative? If it is
It is a general description of the fusion potala. Yes it is
but that does not deny anything really, I have not said that necessarily that I have the reason. really can not be known. because vegito did not appear more times
but well let's say you're right, what's your point with this?

you were the one who brought up the topic of kefla ...
eh it has a lot to do with the power of the people that fuse, gohan was stronger than vegeta, therefore its fusion with goku would be much stronger.
what was going is that the only reason why kefla is so strong is because kale has enough power despite the fact that caulifla is not so much

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 12:10 am

Tai Lung wrote: you're just comparing descriptions, one thing does not change the other ... that's why I say you speculates
Is the image only representative? If it is
It is a general description of the fusion potala. Yes it is
but that does not deny anything really, I have not said that necessarily that I have the reason. really can not be known. because vegito did not appear more times
but well let's say you're right, what's your point with this?

you were the one who brought up the topic of kefla ...
eh it has a lot to do with the power of the people that fuse, gohan was stronger than vegeta, therefore its fusion with goku would be much stronger.
what was going is that the only reason why kefla is so strong is because kale has enough power despite the fact that caulifla is not so much
The point is that Buu arc Vegetto is obsolete to SSJ4 Goku according to the show and the passage does nothing to contradict that fact. Buu arc Vegetto's power becoming irrelevant was subtly made when base kid Goku could tango with a monster like Rildo, and made clear when Super Baby Lv. 2 obtained the greatest Saiyan power up to date.

I brought up Kefla to show how Potara in general can surpass various transformations.

Potara is a plot-dependent power-up, there is no actual logic behind it. You can claim Goku x Gohan is stronger than Vegetto all you want, but the series explicitly told us in no uncertain terms that Vegetto is definitely the strongest due to 'rival boost' or whatever arbitrary reason. Kefla who is a fusion of one who is roughly equal to Goku and one who is far weaker than either of them in base can stomp SSG Goku. Base Caulifla x base Kale -> base Kefla, pure and simple. Saying that her base is boosted by Kale's hidden power is an egregious assumption.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Mon May 07, 2018 1:23 am

Rakurai wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: you're just comparing descriptions, one thing does not change the other ... that's why I say you speculates
Is the image only representative? If it is
It is a general description of the fusion potala. Yes it is
but that does not deny anything really, I have not said that necessarily that I have the reason. really can not be known. because vegito did not appear more times
but well let's say you're right, what's your point with this?

you were the one who brought up the topic of kefla ...
eh it has a lot to do with the power of the people that fuse, gohan was stronger than vegeta, therefore its fusion with goku would be much stronger.
what was going is that the only reason why kefla is so strong is because kale has enough power despite the fact that caulifla is not so much
The point is that Buu arc Vegetto is obsolete to SSJ4 Goku according to the show and the passage does nothing to contradict that fact. Buu arc Vegetto's power becoming irrelevant was subtly made when base kid Goku could tango with a monster like Rildo, and made clear when Super Baby Lv. 2 obtained the greatest Saiyan power up to date.

I brought up Kefla to show how Potara in general can surpass various transformations.

Potara is a plot-dependent power-up, there is no actual logic behind it. You can claim Goku x Gohan is stronger than Vegetto all you want, but the series explicitly told us in no uncertain terms that Vegetto is definitely the strongest due to 'rival boost' or whatever arbitrary reason. Kefla who is a fusion of one who is roughly equal to Goku and one who is far weaker than either of them in base can stomp SSG Goku. Base Caulifla x base Kale -> base Kefla, pure and simple. Saying that her base is boosted by Kale's hidden power is an egregious assumption.
the guide does not deny or contradict anything but gives a basic description of the fusion of potara only makes the comparison of vegito and ssj4. which we could only see once without showing its full power Potara is a plot-dependent power-up, but it means that we can never give an affirmation of its power until it shows
everything else will be speculations
the series is the one that contradicts rildo and baby and gave the reasons
pan hits a stronger rildo
goten gives gohan a fight
take the first statement they give you does not seem the most appropriate unless it has more foundation or not refuse after
the same manga tells you that it has a lot to do with the power of those who merge tell you that it is more optimal than "fusion metamor"
goku originally wanted to merge with gohan to beat super buu chose vegeta because he was the one that most accommodated in power of the available
kale has a great power that does not show by his personality like kid gohan but increases his ki when he gets angry, apart count the goku's exhaustion
it seems more illogical to believe that the fusion of 2 weaker characters exceeds another that has stronger characters without a reason that in different ways they have given to sustain the power "rivalry" "self-fusion" "potential" etc
If you want to believe that everyone is stronger, I do not have a problem with that, but I honestly do not believe it for reasons already given.

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 10:29 am

Tai Lung wrote: the guide does not deny or contradict anything but gives a basic description of the fusion of potara only makes the comparison of vegito and ssj4. which we could only see once without showing its full power Potara is a plot-dependent power-up, but it means that we can never give an affirmation of its power until it shows
everything else will be speculations
the series is the one that contradicts rildo and baby and gave the reasons
pan hits a stronger rildo
goten gives gohan a fight
take the first statement they give you does not seem the most appropriate unless it has more foundation or not refuse after
the same manga tells you that it has a lot to do with the power of those who merge tell you that it is more optimal than "fusion metamor"
goku originally wanted to merge with gohan to beat super buu chose vegeta because he was the one that most accommodated in power of the available
kale has a great power that does not show by his personality like kid gohan but increases his ki when he gets angry, apart count the goku's exhaustion
it seems more illogical to believe that the fusion of 2 weaker characters exceeds another that has stronger characters without a reason that in different ways they have given to sustain the power "rivalry" "self-fusion" "potential" etc
If you want to believe that everyone is stronger, I do not have a problem with that, but I honestly do not believe it for reasons already given.
Are we going to nitpick instances now?

Pan hit Rildo, yes. Then later it was played off for gags and had zero effect on him.

SSJ Goten gave base Gohan a fight. Gohan, on the defensive, was thinking about how to help Goten without hurting him.

In Z, we have:

Tien forcing down Semi-Perfect Cell with Kikoho.

SSJ Trunks knocking back Majin Buu.

In Super, we have:

SSJ2 F. Trunks evading SSB Vegeta with a transformation feint.

SSJ2 F. Trunks pushing back SSR Black after saving SSB Goku.

Roshi clowning Tien.

SSB Goku struggling against Krillin, who was even pushing him back at one point.

LSSJ Kale tanking SSB Kamehameha and ragdolling SSB Goku.

Roshi > SSJ3 Gotenks since he gave base Goku a good fight. Actually everyone and their mom > SSJ3 Gotenks.

Perfect Files say Gohan hasn't neglected his training, therefore there is no reason to assume he got weaker. The entire show never mentioned he got weaker. In fact, Baby was amazed by and marveled at Gohan's power in comparison to Goten's, and didn't say anything like he got weaker or he could've been stronger. Furthermore, Piccolo commented on how strong Gohan became when he one-shotted Piccolo. Everything points to Gohan's power remaining the same or more. He even has SSJ to boost his old "ultimate" power too.

Your argument has no crutch. Rildo, using less than 50% of his full power, is stronger than Buu (kid Buu likely, because Uub who is the reincarnation of kid Buu completed his training with Goku so he should be at least that strong), period. Base GT Goku bested him, also using less than 50% full power. Baby Vegeta commented he obtained the greatest Saiyan power ever, and Goku confirmed he never felt a ki as incredible as his.

So yeah, everything points to Buu arc Vegetto being obsolete in terms of power in both GT and Super.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Mon May 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Rakurai wrote: Are we going to nitpick instances now?

Pan hit Rildo, yes. Then later it was played off for gags and had zero effect on him.

SSJ Goten gave base Gohan a fight. Gohan, on the defensive, was thinking about how to help Goten without hurting him.
-it does not mean that pan can hurt him even if he is a bit goku had to transform into ssj the first time to face him but then between goku base, base trunks and pan kill him
-It could leave it ko and ready but do not, gohan is forced to become ssj, goten even it takes out wounds thing that later baby takes advantage.
which denies that it is ultimate gohan
Rakurai wrote: In Z, we have:

Tien forcing down Semi-Perfect Cell with Kikoho.

SSJ Trunks knocking back Majin Buu.

In Super, we have:

SSJ2 F. Trunks evading SSB Vegeta with a transformation feint.

SSJ2 F. Trunks pushing back SSR Black after saving SSB Goku.

Roshi clowning Tien.

SSB Goku struggling against Krillin, who was even pushing him back at one point.

LSSJ Kale tanking SSB Kamehameha and ragdolling SSB Goku.
-with attacks of energy not to blows
-Without the guard, unlike rildo
-Training, trunks does not do anything to vegeta except hit when it's in base
-but goku beat him in ssj3 so the following is denied
- Then it is denied when Goku chooses Tien as training partner and not Roshi
-goku restrained himself with the majority in training because they were not enemies until the writers talked about it
-and then kale was able to defend himself from the ssj god, so if she in the level
Rakurai wrote: Perfect Files say Gohan hasn't neglected his training, therefore there is no reason to assume he got weaker. The entire show never mentioned he got weaker. In fact, Baby was amazed by and marveled at Gohan's power in comparison to Goten's, and didn't say anything like he got weaker or he could've been stronger. Furthermore, Piccolo commented on how strong Gohan became when he one-shotted Piccolo. Everything points to Gohan's power remaining the same or more. He even has SSJ to boost his old "ultimate" power too.

Your argument has no crutch. Rildo, using less than 50% of his full power, is stronger than Buu (kid Buu likely, because Uub who is the reincarnation of kid Buu completed his training with Goku so he should be at least that strong), period. Base GT Goku bested him, also using less than 50% full power. Baby Vegeta commented he obtained the greatest Saiyan power ever, and Goku confirmed he never felt a ki as incredible as his.

So yeah, everything points to Buu arc Vegetto being obsolete in terms of power in both GT and Super.
do you want me to help you?

in super
-vegeta in base easily defeats gotenks ssj3 that means that cabba and trunks in base should be stronger than gotenks? not ,it is contradictory
in gt
-goku ssj4 could hardly move a building, that even yamcha should be able to do that, is the limit of its strength? not , it's contradictory
goku ssj4 did it prove to be much stronger in gt

boy you have to have a bit of judgment to know which statement is more logical or valid not only take the first thing they say

and never saw training of gohan in gt and never explained himself because he has to use the ssj when it is no longer necessary if he has the sns

we will be repeating the same like parrots so you decide if you want to continue ..

User avatar
DB▪Magnum-Expert
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:33 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Mon May 07, 2018 3:37 pm

Why aren't I seeing any evidence of GT > Super? I thought this threat was all about proving that point
People I'm always keen to Debate with for the sole purpose of increasing experience and joy:

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 4:36 pm

Tai Lung wrote:...
I agree, feats mean very little to nothing without dialogue to create context and establish a narrative. Which is the whole point I was trying to make.

Dialogue holds more meaning because it creates context and explains narrative. I value statements more than feats as the former provide clear indications of one's strength relative to another. If SSJ Kefla initially struggled against SSB-KK Goku but Whis later confirms her power rivals the U7 Spirit bomb, then that's the narrative speaking and we have a clear indication of where her power is. If Baby Vegeta Lv. 3 seems to be beating up SSJ4 Goku but Elder Kai says that Goku isn't even using a fraction of his power and is just toying with Baby, then that's the narrative speaking and SSJ4 Goku is immensely above Baby Lv. 3.

Two things you are wrong here in: there were no open wounds, nor did Goten inflict any. Baby latched onto Gohan at the time when his ki was the highest. SSJ4 Goku easily moved the city back in place. It was base Goku that struggled to push back up the building.

You have zero proof for saying Gohan got weaker in GT. Perfect Files says he hasn't neglected his training. Saying otherwise is denying GT canon and using headcanon. Meanwhile, we have narrative indicating to us that Gohan is just as powerful in the show, with no signs of becoming weaker.

Base Gohan, on the defense alone, matched SSJ Baby Goten, until Goten tried to blow himself up. Then Gohan was forced to go SSJ. Pre-Ultimate Gohan could never even match a SSJ kid Goten in base.

Piccolo noted how powerful Gohan had gotten when Baby Gohan launched a Kamehameha at Piccolo which one-shot him. This alone indicates Gohan's power hadn't diminished one bit.

Baby marveled at how magnificent Gohan's body was and how strong he was. Never complained about him being weaker than what he was before or how much stronger he could be.

Threw a Kamehameha in base at Super 17. Everybody was shocked it had no effect. No reason why they would be so shocked if Gohan was obviously weaker than his Buu arc self.

When Majuub asked someone to fuse with him, Gohan told him to rest first. Didn't outright tell him that Majuub couldn't fuse with any of them since nearly equal power levels are required for fusion.

So again, you have zero crutch for your argument. Then again, it's painfully clear to me that you haven't watched GT properly, if at all, and just took wrong statements from other users and try to pass them off as facts. You have zero ground to be talking about GT power scaling when you don't even understand the feats yourself.

I am done with this conversation too because I keep sounding like a broken record. Anybody who claims GT Gohan got weaker just because he used SSJ needs to rewatch since there is no evidence to say the contrary. GT follows the trend of power inflation, that's clear enough.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by theherodjl » Mon May 07, 2018 5:04 pm

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:Why aren't I seeing any evidence of GT > Super? I thought this threat was all about proving that point
Because there isn't any. Some people would just like to argue about technical things than stay on topic.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by PFM18 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:08 pm

OWmyDragonBallz wrote:Well isn’t Base Goku (post SSJG powerup) > Super Vegetto Boo saga?
Right after BoG? No. By the time the U6 or Goku Black arcs roll around? Yes

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Mon May 07, 2018 5:24 pm

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:Why aren't I seeing any evidence of GT > Super? I thought this threat was all about proving that point
we are actually discussing the contradictions of the series lol.
on the main theme never seen in gt something like the fist crash feat that was going to destroy the universe in super
so no, in power super > gt

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon May 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Why is this still going after so many pages?
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Tsufuru
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tsufuru » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:22 am

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
Tsufuru wrote: realy? are you real? it happened on screen , you are laughable at best with that comment.
Am I the only one that saw it happen only when their hits collided? I don't see why this is a feat just given out to Goku. Not to mention that never happened in the original film to what I remember, as the logic of shockwaves increasing the further away they are from the source is exactly the opposite effect of how shockwaves work in physics. Again, this is Super's logic we are trying to credit, when it as a source itself isn't. As far as what was shown only Zeno can destroy universe single-handedly, if not the case than why would everyone else including Beerus be surprised or even fear this feat? I never bough the claim for SSG Goku.
Rakurai wrote:I think classifying levels based on destructive capability is a stupid system. Broly destroyed a galaxy, so technically that automatically puts him above the likes of Buu?
I still call the Broly thing cinematic emphasis on North Kai's thought, not him actually doing this as said.
becouse he kills them in the process ? lmao.
how the shockwave works is irrelevant.
point is , they created it with their own power.
they would still be universal or atleast multi galaxy even if the kaioshin said the shockwave is made out of juice.

Post Reply