Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Fri May 04, 2018 2:00 pm

Cetra wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: there is no GT vegito, they refer to vegito (z) and there is no proof that they refer to a hypothetical vegito GT
There is also no proof that they mean Z Vegetto. As a matter of fact it would not even be plausible enough to assume they mean Z Vegetto. And even if they WOULD mean him it would still be nothing but a power statement in a guide which we all know is far from the non-plus ultra. Official instances say about power what they want whenever they want.
refers to vegito, only a vegito was seen in the series is that of buu arc
There is no new design or any data that tells you that it is another one, only the image of vegito z in the guide so.
for that reason I already said that if we based only on the shown in anime are 2 options on the subject

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Fri May 04, 2018 2:21 pm

"Only a Vegetto was seen in Z in the Boo arc" does not solve the problem that Vegetto in Z is not a plausible option as that makes even for Dragon Ball standards less sense and that the idea of Vegetto still exists in GT itself. Of course in GT he would be stronger. Same goes for Gotenks who STILL was not considered an option for Baby so much to the extent that Goku told them they should not fuse. It is interesting that you take Battle of Gods' statement as an example while we also know of Vegetto only during the Boo arc. Do you actually believe Goku in Battle of Gods refers to Vegetto with Boo arc power? You know they are stronger in Battle of Gods, right?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri May 04, 2018 2:54 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
there is no GT vegito, they refer to vegito (z) and there is no proof that they refer to a hypothetical vegito GT

if we go by what is shown in the series there are 2 options
Goku says that the ki of baby (second form) is the most powerful one that has felt, if we take that literal would put him above super buu (gohan) but majuub can give a fight to a more powerful baby and ...
majuub = super buu = mr buu + uub / kid buu
the last option would fit with the guide
Vegito doesn't have fixed power level. DBZ Vegito, GT Vegito and DBS Vegito are not equal. The same goes for DBZ/DBGT/DBS Goku/Vegeta.
Guide clearly says that if Goku and Vegeta fuse and turn SSJ they will become stronger than SSJ4.
It's not description of previous events or anything like that. It doesn't say that they were stronger than SSJ4. It says how fusion work.
Nothing about certain version of Vegito and nothing about certain version of Goku, Vegeta nor SSJ4 (even though it obivously meant GT SSJ4 since there is no SSJ4 in DBZ)

They use DBZ Vegito picture because, as you said, there is no GT Vegito.
Magazines always use old pics.
Upcoming DBS episodes descriptions had thumnbnails from old episodes that weren't even related to upcoming EP in any way.

And Goku obviously felt Vegito's power. The same goes for Vegeta.
Baby had all his memories and he said that he has the greatest saiyan power. Goku confirmed that he never felt such huge ki.
Goku knew that Vegito wouldn't beat Beerus, so it pretty much confirms that Goku could tell that Baby is stronger than Vegito from Z.

Majuub is reincarnation of Super Buu in some way, but Uub alone seemed stronger than Kid Buu at this point.
Majuub was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, while base Goku could easily beat not only Rildo, who was stronger than Buu (not sure which Buu), but also SSJ Gohan.
So i'd say Majuub would be about equal to DBZ Vegito as well then (considering he forced Super Baby 2 to go full-power)
Also, Majuub destroyed Rildo in single ki blast.
If he was only equal to Super Buu, then i highly doubt he would destroy Rildo so easily, no matter which version of Buu they meant he is stronger than.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by p-hyvo » Fri May 04, 2018 4:36 pm

I'm ok with the deduction, but not with your premise. goku's strength raises a lot from arc to arc in gt and sometimes even in the same arc, so early gt Goku <<<<<<<<<<<<<late gt Goku.
said that, i do power levels from more than a year and i came to the same conclusion of yours, only considering the massive boosts gotu obtains in gt the god/blue multiplier cannot just compensate it because super's base form is a lot weaker than the late gt one and, even if i use gods multiplier like x600'000 and 30'000'000, thats arent enough to balance with late gt base lol, infact base Goku vs syn shenron is, to me, kinda 2,7 times stronger than base Goku blue at the start of tournament of power (lololololol) do not kill me for this super fags, gt is just too fucked up with power scaling

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Fri May 04, 2018 4:54 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
there is no GT vegito, they refer to vegito (z) and there is no proof that they refer to a hypothetical vegito GT

if we go by what is shown in the series there are 2 options
Goku says that the ki of baby (second form) is the most powerful one that has felt, if we take that literal would put him above super buu (gohan) but majuub can give a fight to a more powerful baby and ...
majuub = super buu = mr buu + uub / kid buu
the last option would fit with the guide
Vegito doesn't have fixed power level. DBZ Vegito, GT Vegito and DBS Vegito are not equal. The same goes for DBZ/DBGT/DBS Goku/Vegeta.
Guide clearly says that if Goku and Vegeta fuse and turn SSJ they will become stronger than SSJ4.
It's not description of previous events or anything like that. It doesn't say that they were stronger than SSJ4. It says how fusion work.
Nothing about certain version of Vegito and nothing about certain version of Goku, Vegeta nor SSJ4 (even though it obivously meant GT SSJ4 since there is no SSJ4 in DBZ)

They use DBZ Vegito picture because, as you said, there is no GT Vegito.
Magazines always use old pics.
Upcoming DBS episodes descriptions had thumnbnails from old episodes that weren't even related to upcoming EP in any way.

And Goku obviously felt Vegito's power. The same goes for Vegeta.
Baby had all his memories and he said that he has the greatest saiyan power. Goku confirmed that he never felt such huge ki.
Goku knew that Vegito wouldn't beat Beerus, so it pretty much confirms that Goku could tell that Baby is stronger than Vegito from Z.

Majuub is reincarnation of Super Buu in some way, but Uub alone seemed stronger than Kid Buu at this point.
Majuub was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, while base Goku could easily beat not only Rildo, who was stronger than Buu (not sure which Buu), but also SSJ Gohan.
So i'd say Majuub would be about equal to DBZ Vegito as well then (considering he forced Super Baby 2 to go full-power)
Also, Majuub destroyed Rildo in single ki blast.
If he was only equal to Super Buu, then i highly doubt he would destroy Rildo so easily, no matter which version of Buu they meant he is stronger than.
then there is no way to check it because it does not say that it is "currently"
Apart from how weird it would be to talk about something that does not happen in the series.
I already took that into account but vegito is very surprised that he is able to defeat buu so easily only using a tiny part of his power because if he does not know, goku and vegeta also no, just to what they showed even though logical
vegito (z) should be able to transform into ssj 2 and ssj3
"fusion logic" Gotenks ssj> goku ssj3 would not be at all odd that a vegito ssj3 exceeds a goku ssj4

In fact, I did not give the validation to the mention of goku in super but the author said that beerus> vegito (z) , that added to the feats they showed .. I'm not left in doubt

if we go alone for what is shown

super buu is mr buu + kid buu and they split
uub is the reincarnation of kid buu only after his training this should be his final level. now after his fusion with mr buu he would have at least the level of super buu there is no way to know that he has more
good rildo is not very consistent at first goku could not with it I force him to go to ssj,
then he is easily beaten by goku base, base trunks and pan
a gohan gives him problems, so no would know how to take the statement.
goku base and vegeta base do not look so different in power and vegeta could not defeat the android 17 in gt
Cetra wrote:"Only a Vegetto was seen in Z in the Boo arc" does not solve the problem that Vegetto in Z is not a plausible option as that makes even for Dragon Ball standards less sense and that the idea of Vegetto still exists in GT itself. Of course in GT he would be stronger. Same goes for Gotenks who STILL was not considered an option for Baby so much to the extent that Goku told them they should not fuse. It is interesting that you take Battle of Gods' statement as an example while we also know of Vegetto only during the Boo arc. Do you actually believe Goku in Battle of Gods refers to Vegetto with Boo arc power? You know they are stronger in Battle of Gods, right?
he would be stronger yeah, but no exist
goten and trunks stopped training and dedicated themselves to having a normal life so are not stronger, pff anyone who is at the level of gohan sns exceeds gotenks.
As I said, the beginning I did not consider it
in Battle of Gods goku and vegeta stopped training for peacetime in fact it is the reason why goku is going to train the planet of kaio to not lose condition

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Koitsukai » Fri May 04, 2018 5:12 pm

I always thought Goku in BoG when said that Vegito wouldn't be enough wasn't just talking about Super Vegito, but SS2 Vegito and SS3 Vegito, he probably can make an educated guess of the full power that Vegito could've achieved if necessary, because in Buu arc, Super Vegito was playing and had soooo much power left in his back pocket. Of course now we know that not even a ToP SS3 Vegito could take on Beerus.

I wouldn't say Majuub was on par with any version of Vegito, at all. Normal Uub at full power should be like Kid Boo because that's who he used to be, training + merging with fat Buu(the one that got stomped in Kaioshinkai) would put him in Super Buu realm, probably above because of all the training, for the sake of argument, let's say Ultra Boo, the buff one. The buff one wouldn't be enough for Z Ultimate Gohan, that's already way too far from Buuhan's power and we know Super Vegito was light years away from Buuhan. There is no way Majuub is up there just by merging with Fat Boo. The last time the buus fuse they became Super Buu.

Rildo has got be around the fat boos, the bad or the good one, I'd say the good one because they refer to Buu like is an acquaintance, no Majin, no specifcation of any kind, just Buu like the fat guy they've been friends with for 15 years. And given what we've been shown (Goku was confident with his base form and was right, forced him to merge with the planet, and then Majuub one shots him) it'd make sense. Ultra Buu, Super Buu or something in between one shotting the fat Buu, the good one or the bad one, is logical.

And SS Gohan and SS Goten attacked Pan and Goku... Pan was unharmed and needed another attack to go down, that goes to show just how strong the Son boys were, no wonder they were disposed by base Goku. They never trained so they are no measurement, really. Ask Piccolo, he tanked SSGohan's KHH while holding KO'd Goten and lived to tell the story, and Goten survived as well.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sat May 05, 2018 3:47 am

Tai Lung wrote:there is no GT vegito, they refer to vegito (z) and there is no proof that they refer to a hypothetical vegito GT

if we go by what is shown in the series there are 2 options
Goku says that the ki of baby (second form) is the most powerful one that has felt, if we take that literal would put him above super buu (gohan) but majuub can give a fight to a more powerful baby and ...
majuub = super buu = mr buu + uub / kid buu
the last option would fit with the guide
Copy and paste most of the stuff I said previously.

"After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

Nowhere in the passage does it state that this was the same Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the result of a desperate last resort by Goku/Vegeta. The previous passages explicitly mention Z events, from teleporting Cell all the way up to fighting Buu, yet the Vegetto passage does no such thing. Furthermore, it is informative (meaning it just talks about Vegetto) as opposed to recollective (where it's referring to this particular Vegetto). This is simply a passage describing Vegetto the Potara fusion in general.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... tory07.jpg

Vegetto's picture is simply a visual. It is related to the passage by the fact that it's supposed to be, well, Vegetto himself. Using visuals alone is seriously ignoring the context laid out by the passage. You want proof?

(From the same guide)
http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... tory06.jpg

On this SSJ Vegetto's box, it explicitly states in the first line that Goku merged with Vegeta in order to take down Buu. This is a clear reference to Buu arc Vegetto. And if it was Buu arc Vegetto they were talking about in the SSJ Vegetto-SSJ4 comparison passage, I assume they would've done the exact same which they did not.

Pictures are also NOT representative of the passages next to it. Case in point:

Passage next to SSJ3 Goku vs kid Buu: "In the Other World, Goku once again trained to reach a form beyond Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3! In order to take down Buu, he transformed into this while still dead! The disadvantage to this form is that the form consumes energy fast and thus cannot last long."

The passage references Fat Buu, yet the picture is that of kid Buu! How about that? Pictures mean nothing without context.

Finally, there is nothing that contradicts Baby Vegeta's statement:

https://i.imgur.com/rF441Qz.png

https://i.imgur.com/hDVZVUd.png

Majuub being equal to Super Buu is your headcanon. Pure and simple headcanon.

We have GT Perfect File statements of GT Gohan not neglecting his training, which logically means his power has remained the same or perhaps even stronger since the end of Buu arc. Couple with his ability to go SSJ (since Z/GT never treated Ultimate as a transformation), GT Gohan is at least Ultimate + SSJ level. Rildo owning GT base Gohan makes sense as well since Rildo is already more powerful than Buu at not even 50% of his full power.

Basically, Buu arc Vegetto is obsolete by the point of GT.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Koitsukai » Sat May 05, 2018 4:47 am

Rakurai wrote:
We have GT Perfect File statements of GT Gohan not neglecting his training, which logically means his power has remained the same or perhaps even stronger since the end of Buu arc. Couple with his ability to go SSJ (since Z/GT never treated Ultimate as a transformation), GT Gohan is at least Ultimate + SSJ level. Rildo owning GT base Gohan makes sense as well since Rildo is already more powerful than Buu at not even 50% of his full power.

Basically, Buu arc Vegetto is obsolete by the point of GT.
We can't be having the same discussion every week, this is just not true, even in previous pages there is an interview of one of GT writers contradicting GT Perfect Files, not just the show contradicts GT Perfect Files, the writers do too. People treat a guide like is some sort of bible when it contradicts the show and even the very statements from the writting staff. Gohan didn't train, Goten didn't train, Trunks didn't train and Vegeta stopped chasing after Goku.

Elder Kaioshin instructed Gohan to go SS with all he had in order to access his newly unlocked power, his ultimate form is his full power unlocked, so no, U+ SSj does not exist, doesn't work like that, it'd be like going ssj2 when you are already ssj3 and say you are ssj5 level, it didn't happen in Z, GT and neither in Super. In any case, first SSj and then Ultimate, not the other way around.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat May 05, 2018 8:45 am

Tai Lung wrote: goku base and vegeta base do not look so different in power and vegeta could not defeat the android 17 in gt
Vegeta never fought 17 in GT.
He only fought Hell Fighter 17.
DBS 17 is not the only one that got stronger.
Vegeta said that Hell Fighter 17 "powered-up beyond belief" compared to original 17 and was actually very surprised that his base was equal to him.

And since Vegeta was stronger than Baby Gohan, it means that Hell Fighter 17 was stronger than Baby Gohan and so regular GT Gohan.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sat May 05, 2018 12:20 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
We can't be having the same discussion every week, this is just not true, even in previous pages there is an interview of one of GT writers contradicting GT Perfect Files, not just the show contradicts GT Perfect Files, the writers do too. People treat a guide like is some sort of bible when it contradicts the show and even the very statements from the writting staff. Gohan didn't train, Goten didn't train, Trunks didn't train and Vegeta stopped chasing after Goku.

Elder Kaioshin instructed Gohan to go SS with all he had in order to access his newly unlocked power, his ultimate form is his full power unlocked, so no, U+ SSj does not exist, doesn't work like that, it'd be like going ssj2 when you are already ssj3 and say you are ssj5 level, it didn't happen in Z, GT and neither in Super. In any case, first SSj and then Ultimate, not the other way around.
Giving up on fighting =/= neglecting training. Gohan still trained even though he gave up fighting for the most part.

Perfect Files do not contradict in any way what was shown in GT. It is meant to add more information that's passive to the audience. Just like how 18 was meant to be weaker than 17.

When information from source books contradict show statements or future release statements, then it's not reliable. Things like Super Saiyan multipliers (Base Cabba = Base Vegeta but SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Cabba, SSJ2 Trunks = SSJ3 Goku in the manga, etc), Potara time limit (Daizenshuu 7 mentions Potara is supposed to last forever when we know now it's not true), and tailless prodigies (lol S-cell BS) are contradicted and thus they do not become reliable anymore.

Ultimate Gohan was a concept back in Z/GT that did not exist as a transformation. Ultimate is obv not his full power, given GT still has Gohan access SSJ/SSJ2, and DBS anime treats Ultimate Gohan as SSB-tier level now otherwise he would've remained the same standing in power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Koitsukai » Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Koitsukai wrote:
We can't be having the same discussion every week, this is just not true, even in previous pages there is an interview of one of GT writers contradicting GT Perfect Files, not just the show contradicts GT Perfect Files, the writers do too. People treat a guide like is some sort of bible when it contradicts the show and even the very statements from the writting staff. Gohan didn't train, Goten didn't train, Trunks didn't train and Vegeta stopped chasing after Goku.

Elder Kaioshin instructed Gohan to go SS with all he had in order to access his newly unlocked power, his ultimate form is his full power unlocked, so no, U+ SSj does not exist, doesn't work like that, it'd be like going ssj2 when you are already ssj3 and say you are ssj5 level, it didn't happen in Z, GT and neither in Super. In any case, first SSj and then Ultimate, not the other way around.
Giving up on fighting =/= neglecting training. Gohan still trained even though he gave up fighting for the most part.

Perfect Files do not contradict in any way what was shown in GT. It is meant to add more information that's passive to the audience. Just like how 18 was meant to be weaker than 17.

When information from source books contradict show statements or future release statements, then it's not reliable. Things like Super Saiyan multipliers (Base Cabba = Base Vegeta but SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Cabba, SSJ2 Trunks = SSJ3 Goku in the manga, etc), Potara time limit (Daizenshuu 7 mentions Potara is supposed to last forever when we know now it's not true), and tailless prodigies (lol S-cell BS) are contradicted and thus they do not become reliable anymore.

Ultimate Gohan was a concept back in Z/GT that did not exist as a transformation. Ultimate is obv not his full power, given GT still has Gohan access SSJ/SSJ2, and DBS anime treats Ultimate Gohan as SSB-tier level now otherwise he would've remained the same standing in power.
Well, if you think it doesn't contradict the show then that is not even your headcanon, that is just being blind. You watch the show and toss out the window GT PF and you will never ever, not in a 100 years conclude HEY GOHAN REALLY TRAINED BETWEEN Z and GT, HE GREW SO STRONG, HE WAS SO ON POINT!

Ultimate power IS all of his power at that time unlocked, that's why when Gohan was healed by Dende while fighting Buutenks he didn't get a zenkai boost, he was already at his limit, he had no more left. Sure he can train and grow stronger like for the ToP, but he can't train and add up SS to Ultimate. He can also never train like in RoF and hardly go ssj, or like in GT, where he can go ssj and have trouble dealing with Ssj Goten who also left behind his fighting lifestyle a long time ago, or even needing two attacks to knock down his tired and hungry daughter.

Funny how me saying Kid Buu's reencarnation(+some training) + Mr Buu would have the same result as in Z + a bit more power due to Uub's training, placing Majuub around Super Buu and Ultra Buu is headcanon pure and simple, but stacking Ultimate on top of ssj like it's Burger King, something NEVER happened or was explained as such, is not pure and simple headcanon. But if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Gohan in GT trained every step of the way, he missed the fights against most of the dragons because he was training so hard.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 05, 2018 4:08 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tai Lung wrote: goku base and vegeta base do not look so different in power and vegeta could not defeat the android 17 in gt
Vegeta never fought 17 in GT.
He only fought Hell Fighter 17.
DBS 17 is not the only one that got stronger.
Vegeta said that Hell Fighter 17 "powered-up beyond belief" compared to original 17 and was actually very surprised that his base was equal to him.

And since Vegeta was stronger than Baby Gohan, it means that Hell Fighter 17 was stronger than Baby Gohan and so regular GT Gohan.
I believe 17 can become stronger but there is no direct verification of how much but both they have the same strength for something it was necessary that they merge
vegeta can not feel the ki of androids
vegeta never meet android 17 to know
gohan lost power for stopping training

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Sat May 05, 2018 4:11 pm

Tai Lung wrote: I believe 17 can become stronger but there is no direct verification of how much but both they have the same strength for something it was necessary that they merge
vegeta can not feel the ki of androids
vegeta never meet android 17 to know
gohan lost power for stopping training
Cyborgs can WILLINGLY emit energy. They did in Super by visually powering up and they did in GT for the hell connection. So yes, Vegeta can feel they energy if they do that.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 05, 2018 5:04 pm

Rakurai wrote: Copy and paste most of the stuff I said previously.

"After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

Nowhere in the passage does it state that this was the same Vegetto who fought Buuhan, who was the result of a desperate last resort by Goku/Vegeta. The previous passages explicitly mention Z events, from teleporting Cell all the way up to fighting Buu, yet the Vegetto passage does no such thing. Furthermore, it is informative (meaning it just talks about Vegetto) as opposed to recollective (where it's referring to this particular Vegetto). This is simply a passage describing Vegetto the Potara fusion in general.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... tory07.jpg

Vegetto's picture is simply a visual. It is related to the passage by the fact that it's supposed to be, well, Vegetto himself. Using visuals alone is seriously ignoring the context laid out by the passage. You want proof?

(From the same guide)
http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... tory06.jpg

On this SSJ Vegetto's box, it explicitly states in the first line that Goku merged with Vegeta in order to take down Buu. This is a clear reference to Buu arc Vegetto. And if it was Buu arc Vegetto they were talking about in the SSJ Vegetto-SSJ4 comparison passage, I assume they would've done the exact same which they did not.

Pictures are also NOT representative of the passages next to it. Case in point:

Passage next to SSJ3 Goku vs kid Buu: "In the Other World, Goku once again trained to reach a form beyond Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3! In order to take down Buu, he transformed into this while still dead! The disadvantage to this form is that the form consumes energy fast and thus cannot last long."

The passage references Fat Buu, yet the picture is that of kid Buu! How about that? Pictures mean nothing without context.

Finally, there is nothing that contradicts Baby Vegeta's statement:

https://i.imgur.com/rF441Qz.png

https://i.imgur.com/hDVZVUd.png

Majuub being equal to Super Buu is your headcanon. Pure and simple headcanon.

We have GT Perfect File statements of GT Gohan not neglecting his training, which logically means his power has remained the same or perhaps even stronger since the end of Buu arc. Couple with his ability to go SSJ (since Z/GT never treated Ultimate as a transformation), GT Gohan is at least Ultimate + SSJ level. Rildo owning GT base Gohan makes sense as well since Rildo is already more powerful than Buu at not even 50% of his full power.

Basically, Buu arc Vegetto is obsolete by the point of GT.
And where does it say it's a hypothetical Vegito GT? with such a simple statement it may well be the previous one ...
does not say that majuub is more powerful than vegito so is not, majuub is equal to super buu
and goten can fight against gohan
and vegeta can overcome gohan
with the sns would not need to become ssj because it has already released all its power is not the case in gt
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
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it is false gohan lost the sns and the ssj2 by retiring from the fights
Cetra wrote: Cyborgs can WILLINGLY emit energy. They did in Super by visually powering up and they did in GT for the hell connection. So yes, Vegeta can feel they energy if they do that.
and that did not do it in z so it my pointit keeps, that vegeta did not know the power of android 17

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Sat May 05, 2018 5:44 pm

Tai Lung wrote: And where does it say it's a hypothetical Vegito GT? with such a simple statement it may well be the previous one ...
does not say that majuub is more powerful than vegito so is not, majuub is equal to super buu
and goten can fight against gohan
and vegeta can overcome gohan
I hope you know that you are trying to contradict something you do not like with something that is also just a baseless claim and yes, no matter how hard you try, it is a baseless claim. "Does not say so is not" and "Majoob is equal Super Boo" means nothing as such a statement. There is nothing to actually derive it from. Also Majoob had actually a bit (a tiny bit) of a chance against Super Tsufurujin 3 Baby and you still think he is just on Super Boo's level? This is ludicrous. Oob reuniting with Mr. Boo is not equal Super Boo. That is not at all what the show wants to say. You know what it wants to say? "He gets a lot stronger". And nothing else. No "Btw. this is like Super Boo" or anything else. That is how Dragon Ball always operates. "With this I am now even stronger". No pseudo-scientific equations.
Last edited by Cetra on Sat May 05, 2018 5:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Rakurai » Sat May 05, 2018 5:45 pm

Koitsukai wrote:Well, if you think it doesn't contradict the show then that is not even your headcanon, that is just being blind. You watch the show and toss out the window GT PF and you will never ever, not in a 100 years conclude HEY GOHAN REALLY TRAINED BETWEEN Z and GT, HE GREW SO STRONG, HE WAS SO ON POINT!

Ultimate power IS all of his power at that time unlocked, that's why when Gohan was healed by Dende while fighting Buutenks he didn't get a zenkai boost, he was already at his limit, he had no more left. Sure he can train and grow stronger like for the ToP, but he can't train and add up SS to Ultimate. He can also never train like in RoF and hardly go ssj, or like in GT, where he can go ssj and have trouble dealing with Ssj Goten who also left behind his fighting lifestyle a long time ago, or even needing two attacks to knock down his tired and hungry daughter.

Funny how me saying Kid Buu's reencarnation(+some training) + Mr Buu would have the same result as in Z + a bit more power due to Uub's training, placing Majuub around Super Buu and Ultra Buu is headcanon pure and simple, but stacking Ultimate on top of ssj like it's Burger King, something NEVER happened or was explained as such, is not pure and simple headcanon. But if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Gohan in GT trained every step of the way, he missed the fights against most of the dragons because he was training so hard.
I'm starting to think you haven't watched GT properly. There ARE subtle indications Gohan's power was still incredible.

Base Gohan, on the defense alone, matched SSJ Baby Goten, until Goten went all-out such that he could kill himself. Then Gohan was forced to go SSJ. Pre-Ultimate Gohan could never even match a SSJ kid Goten in base.

Piccolo noted how powerful Gohan had gotten when Baby Gohan launched a Kamehameha at Piccolo which one-shot him. This alone indicates Gohan's power hadn't diminished one bit.

Threw a Kamehameha in base at Super 17. Everybody was shocked it had no effect. No reason why they would be so shocked if Gohan was obviously weaker than his Buu arc self.

When Majuub asked someone to fuse with him, Gohan told him to rest first. Didn't outright tell him that Majuub couldn't fuse with any of them since nearly equal power levels are required for fusion.

I repeat, guidebooks are meant to CLARIFY information that's not explicitly shown to us, and there is nothing that contradicts Gohan not training throughout the show. I will trust the word of guidebooks and Toei/Shueshia/Toriyama over fan speculations with baseless assumptions.

The fact that Majuub gave Super Baby Level 3 who already long surpassed Buu arc Super Vegetto some trouble just means that he IS that strong. Power inflation is a thing in DB, you know. It also exists in DBSuper too as you well know with 17 and Ultimate Gohan.
Tai Lung wrote: And where does it say it's a hypothetical Vegito GT? with such a simple statement it may well be the previous one ...
does not say that majuub is more powerful than vegito so is not, majuub is equal to super buu
and goten can fight against gohan
and vegeta can overcome gohan
with the sns would not need to become ssj because it has already released all its power is not the case in gt
What are you talking about? Do you need to be fucking told in explicit words "hypothetical DBGT Vegetto"? The passage is talking about Vegetto IN GENERAL. Not Buu arc Vegetto. Not EoZ Vegetto. Just Vegetto in general. That's it, pure and simple. Potara can surpass SSJ4 transformation, just like it can surpass SSG/B as we've seen with Kefla. Pictures mean nothing without context, otherwise you might as well say Goku was still dead when fighting kid Buu in the passage above that. Yeah, that's BS.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Rakurai wrote: What are you talking about? Do you need to be fucking told in explicit words "hypothetical DBGT Vegetto"? The passage is talking about Vegetto IN GENERAL. Not Buu arc Vegetto. Not EoZ Vegetto. Just Vegetto in general. That's it, pure and simple. Potara can surpass SSJ4 transformation, just like it can surpass SSG/B as we've seen with Kefla. Pictures mean nothing without context, otherwise you might as well say Goku was still dead when fighting kid Buu in the passage above that. Yeah, that's BS.
kefla surpasses goku god because kale has the ssj berserker has nothing to do.
I return to the same there is nothing that tells me to refer to a vegito that is not of the saga of buu. with that description can be one or the other
Cetra wrote: I hope you know that you are trying to contradict something you do not like with something that is also just a baseless claim and yes, no matter how hard you try, it is a baseless claim. "Does not say so is not" and "Majoob is equal Super Boo" means nothing as such a statement. There is nothing to actually derive it from. Also Majoob had actually a bit (a tiny bit) of a chance against Super Tsufurujin 3 Baby and you still think he is just on Super Boo's level? This is ludicrous. Oob reuniting with Mr. Boo is not equal Super Boo. That is not at all what the show wants to say. You know what it wants to say? "He gets a lot stronger". And nothing else. No "Btw. this is like Super Boo" or anything else. That is how Dragon Ball always operates. "With this I am now even stronger". No pseudo-scientific equations.
and your comment is also perfect towards you
I already made it clear that without more information you can not take either one because basically they are trying to say that it refers to a current vegito and not the vegito buu arc without any proof

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Koitsukai » Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm

Lol I rewatched GT 2 weeks ago, but yeah, and i'm the one with the headcanon...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by Cetra » Sat May 05, 2018 6:17 pm

Tai Lung wrote: and your comment is also perfect towards you
Wow, thank you for this basic response that comes from everyone and their grandmother but no, it is not "perfect towards me" because even letting the Vegetto part itself aside your entire power claims cannot work within the realm of what we see in GT where those characters get stronger to an extreme extent. Unless you want to believe stuff like Goku's saying he feels Baby as the highest power he has ever felt is wrong or that between Baby's forms there is not much strength difference. And I doubt that even you believe that. Goku was totally obliterated by Baby in his first Stage already and when almost dying said he was glad there was someone that strong. Baby Stage 2 and Stage 3 were even stronger. You really want to tell me those guys are in your eyes the level of Boo Arc characters as you believe Vegetto himself from Z is SSJ4 level?

That means: Rildo is basically only a bit weaker than Baby, somewhere inbetween is Majoob, a lot of Babys forms as well as a Controlled Tailed SSJ3 and then SSJ4 and Z Vegetto? Do you see how this is beyond believable? Especially in "we get bigger and stronger than everyone before" Dragon Ball.
Last edited by Cetra on Sat May 05, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat May 05, 2018 6:22 pm

Tai Lung wrote: I believe 17 can become stronger but there is no direct verification of how much but both they have the same strength for something it was necessary that they merge
vegeta can not feel the ki of androids
vegeta never meet android 17 to know
gohan lost power for stopping training
He didn't need to fight 17 before to know that he was no match for 1st form Cell.
And base Vegeta at this point was able to beat Baby Gohan who was much stronger than regular base Gohan who was easily comparable to Ultimate Gohan at power (yes, he was).
And Vegeta didn't know that this is different 17. He was thinking it's the same 17 from Cell saga so he was surprised that he can keep up with him instead of being destroyed in single punch.
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